benzodiazepines and O.S.A what you guys think

[poorflick]

I take ativan when I need it. No problems with AHI at all.

[barbaraz]

I have taking Lorazapan for many years. To prove a point to various MDs I have gone off it. I had a long discussion with a psychiatrist once about its use. He said that the addition worries were more when you started to keep raising your dosage. For me, it is almost a placebo now for my chatterbox mind. I have so many reactions to meds and this is one that has never bothered me. After proving to my primary that I was not going to use it beyond the 1 mg at bedtime... she is fine with it

[jencat824]

My perspective on this is that benzos are a personal choice. Since your Dr has said its safe, the next step is how you feel about taking a possibly addictive substance. If you don't have any addition problems, then the decision is a personal one. If you have a family history of say, alcoholism, I'd definitely steer clear. I've been on more than one benzo for a number of years. One is a part of my seizure cocktail & I look at it as, yes its addictive, but its function for me is to keep me from having seizures,. so I'm OJK with that. The other benzo is for a more complex issue, but I decided a number of years ago, it was worth the issues that come with that drug to take it anyway. If you ask 50 people, you might get 50 different answers.

In terms of your question of safety, I think its safe, and your drs obviously do. The rest is up to you.

Jen

[ringo728]

Thanks Papit!! I really believe that anyone that has been professionally diagnosed and treated for severe anxiety knows what a major adjustment can be like when adapting to CPAP therapy for the first time. Some folks can adjust very easily like a duck in water and some can't without the help of anti-anxiety meds. That's why the failure rate is so high among new users. Many new patients of CPAP may have anxiety issues which can be a major stumbling block. And one who may be really "wired for sound" it's far worse to adapt to it. The medical community specializing in this area have recognized this. Their goal is for new users to succeed with CPAP. Whatever it takes. Thank God there are meds available like this to help one along during this process and new life transition.

[JoshCallahan]

My perspective on this is that benzos are a personal choice. Since your Dr has said its safe, the next step is how you feel about taking a possibly addictive substance. If you don't have any addition problems, then the decision is a personal one. If you have a family history of say, alcoholism, I'd definitely steer clear. I've been on more than one benzo for a number of years. One is a part of my seizure cocktail & I look at it as, yes its addictive, but its function for me is to keep me from having seizures,. so I'm OJK with that. The other benzo is for a more complex issue, but I decided a number of years ago, it was worth the issues that come with that drug to take it anyway. If you ask 50 people, you might get 50 different answers.

In terms of your question of safety, I think its safe, and your drs obviously do. The rest is up to you.

Jen

I have had my run ins with addiction sure no more though thank jesus. But as i said prior in the post, i was once on 5mg valium, and out of all of it i took maybe um 5 maybe 6 pills total and cut them in half because it wiped me out. I really do not see why anyone would want to spend all day in bed sleeping.. The last valium i took i slept for 12 hours and was still wiped out 3 days later. Not exactly my idea of fun. On a off note you do you know that most atypical antipsychotics are just super benzos rigth? Its no wonder why people cant get off those. Alas i digress, my anxity is dibilitating, it renders ambian inafective, and has almost landed me in the ward. So if on the rare occasion that fluoxitine is not enough, its nice to know i have something that shuts things down for me.

[sickwithapnea17]

I've had a lot of success on klonopin. how low were your O2 desats? I have more energy and clarity after sleeping on 0,5-1mg klonopin and the asv at some settings

[JoshCallahan]

I've had a lot of success on klonopin. how low were your O2 desats? I have more energy and clarity after sleeping on 0,5-1mg klonopin and the asv at some settings

When diagnosed it got as low as 81. Now though i have no idea..

[sickwithapnea17]

my O2 kept going down and was 73% on my last study. I took 2 restoril during my sleep study and my O2 levels were normal but was exhausted the next morning. some doctors say benzas can damage you but I feel much better and can think better and feel more normal and energetic. my sleep specialist said it regulates your breathing during sleep. I have mixed apnea, OSA and CSA. I still take klonopin because I feel better and can think better on it

[Christine L]

i was once on 5mg valium, and out of all of it i took maybe um 5 maybe 6 pills total and cut them in half because it wiped me out. I really do not see why anyone would want to spend all day in bed sleeping.. The last valium i took i slept for 12 hours and was still wiped out 3 days later. Not exactly my idea of fun.

My first sleep doc wanted me to take 1 mg clonazepam every night. My second one wanted me to quit and never take it again.

With CPAP working I don't need it. It seems the sleep apnea was causing all my anxiety all along.

[JoshCallahan]

i was once on 5mg valium, and out of all of it i took maybe um 5 maybe 6 pills total and cut them in half because it wiped me out. I really do not see why anyone would want to spend all day in bed sleeping.. The last valium i took i slept for 12 hours and was still wiped out 3 days later. Not exactly my idea of fun.

My first sleep doc wanted me to take 1 mg clonazepam every night. My second one wanted me to quit and never take it again.

With CPAP working I don't need it. It seems the sleep apnea was causing all my anxiety all along.

Ahh the joys of Klonopin some nasty stuff right there.. but that aside i only wish it was that simple can't tell u how many nights i have laid in bed with the cpap running my mind going faster then a rocket. Thankfully for me at the moment though the fluoxitine i am taking seems to be eliminating it and allowing me to sleep very well. so here is to hoping i can take the attivan right back to the pharmacy that it came from.

[John from Brookston]

A friend of mine expressed it this way:
"Are you knocking over liquor stores or spending the rent money or whoring to 'feed your habit'? Is your life out of control because of it? If so, then you could say you're addicted. On the other hand, if you are depending on it to live a normal life, then there should be no more stigma attached to it than there is to your insulin pump."
I should have never clicked on this thread, I'm having enough trouble dealing with the claustrophobia, heebie-jeebies, and heart attack to now be worrying "Am I gonna become a junkie?".

I'm locking my machine up out in the truck tonight. i don't want to be in the same building with it.

[Kate M]

As an FYI, there have been several discussions on the AD withdrawal boards in which people felt like they were addicted to the meds due to the horrific withdrawal symptoms. No one felt the label was at all unkind and in fact, there seemed to be contempt for the medical profession for wanting to minimize the symptoms by calling it "discontinuation syndrome." and refusing to call it an addiction.

I never got addicted to benzos fortunately because I took them on a PRN basis. But having heard the horror stories, I think AT's description of it being addicted to them sounds right on target.

49er

Research the difference between "addiction" and "dependence" and I think you will see why medical professionals differentiate the two and use the "addict" word so specifically. So many people who would truly benefit from a drug refuse to take it because they are afraid of becoming "addicted." As a hospice nurse, I have to explain this over and over again. People in severe pain at the very end of life are afraid to take opiates because they are afraid of becoming addicted. Craziness! We need to be careful how we use the terms. Those who think we are "minimizing the symptoms" by giving it a name that is more accurate are a bit self-absorbed in my opinion. It's not all about them.

Addiction: A brain disease characterized by both physical and psychological dependence. Detox can result in an end to the physical dependence but the psychological dependence is much harder to stop. Addiction is characterized by drug-seeking behaviors (which is also a hallmark of pseudo-addiction -- addiction-like behaviors as a result of undertreated pain or anxiety) such as seeking the drug from multiple providers or illegally obtaining it without a prescription, preoccupation with obtaining the drug, and misuse of the drug for its intoxication effects. Addiction results in loss of productivity, relationship problems, and possible legal issues. Not everyone with a dependence is addicted.

Dependence: A physical dependence. Characterized by the occurrence of withdrawal symptoms (or "discontinuation syndrome") when the drug is abruptly stopped or decreased. Many medications (not only opiates or antianxiety medications) can cause this -- some antidepressants, anti-hypertensives, etc. While physical dependence is always an element in addiction, they are not the same thing. Detoxification of the physically dependent patient results in an end to the problem.

Blessings,

Kate

[49er]

Kate,

With all due respect, I think if you visited the psych med withdrawal boards, you would have have a better understanding of why people feel the way they do about psych meds and addiction. Calling people self absorbed for feeling that way comes across as very condescending even though I know that wasn't your intention.

And if there was better support and understanding from medical professionals regarding psych meds and withdrawal, many people wouldn't care so much what you called it. By the way, many people who have sought inpatient help for detox from benzos end up alot worse due to being jerked off of them way too quickly with additional meds to deal with. That is how they end up on the psych med withdrawal boards.

Just so you know, it was because of those boards that I got off of 4 psych meds safely. If I had taken my then psychiatrist's advice, it would have been way too fast and I doubt I would have been successful.

Anyway, my concerns were not in any way meant to stigmatize the use of benzos. But since Zanax has one of the shortest half lives of a benzo, I think it is important for people to understand that it could be a very difficult drug to get off of if the med went south on you for any reason. When people are making the decision about risks/benefits, that needs to be part of the equation and often is left out by medical professionals.

Sadly, I know people who weren't given that information and are having the time from h-ll in getting off of the drug. That is criminal.

49er

PS - I realize your population group is a totally different ballgame and agree that worrying about withdrawal issues is pretty irrelevant.

As an FYI, there have been several discussions on the AD withdrawal boards in which people felt like they were addicted to the meds due to the horrific withdrawal symptoms. No one felt the label was at all unkind and in fact, there seemed to be contempt for the medical profession for wanting to minimize the symptoms by calling it "discontinuation syndrome." and refusing to call it an addiction.

I never got addicted to benzos fortunately because I took them on a PRN basis. But having heard the horror stories, I think AT's description of it being addicted to them sounds right on target.

49er

Research the difference between "addiction" and "dependence" and I think you will see why medical professionals differentiate the two and use the "addict" word so specifically. So many people who would truly benefit from a drug refuse to take it because they are afraid of becoming "addicted." As a hospice nurse, I have to explain this over and over again. People in severe pain at the very end of life are afraid to take opiates because they are afraid of becoming addicted. Craziness! We need to be careful how we use the terms. Those who think we are "minimizing the symptoms" by giving it a name that is more accurate are a bit self-absorbed in my opinion. It's not all about them.

Addiction: A brain disease characterized by both physical; and psychological dependence. Detox can result in an end to the physical dependence but the psychological dependence is much harder to stop. Addiction is characterized by drug-seeking behaviors (which is also a hallmark of pseudo-addiction -- the result of addiction-like behaviors in response to undertreated pain or anxiety) such as seeking the drug from multiple providers or illegally obtaining it without a prescription, preoccupation with obtaining the drug, and misuse of the drug for it's intoxication effects. Addiction results in loss of productivity, relationship problems, and possible legal issues. Not everyone with a dependence is addicted.

Dependence: A physical dependence. Characterized by the occurrence of withdrawal symptoms (or "discontinuation syndrome") when the drug is abruptly stopped or decreased. Many medications (not only opiates or antianxiety medications) can cause this -- some antidepressants, anti-hypertensives, etc. While physical dependence is always an element in addiction, they are not the same thing. Detoxification of the physically dependent patient results in an end to the problem.

Blessings,

Kate

[Kate M]

With all due respect, I think if you visited the psych med withdrawal boards, you would have have a better understanding of why people feel the way they do about psych meds and addiction. Calling people self absorbed for feeling that way comes across as very condescending even though I know that wasn't your intention.

And if there was better support and understanding from medical professionals regarding psych meds and withdrawal, many people wouldn't care so much what you called it. (SNIP)

PS - I realize your population group is a totally different ballgame and agree that worrying about withdrawal issues is pretty irrelevant.

Yes, that was certainly not my intention, 49er. Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. My statement though is a result of my own frustration with folks who unwittingly make other peoples' realities worse by being focused only on how something may effect them. I really don't want to see people encouraged to use incorrect and harmful language to assuage them. I know some folks who have the opinion you present in your post and I DO find them extremely self-absorbed, despite my trying to understand their perspectives. They refuse to consider how language effects anyone else. They refuse to believe that the meaning of the word "addiction" is not what they think it is and to insist on using it that way has a negative impact on others. They simply don't care, and then lump me in with the evil medical system that has wronged them when all I am trying to do is to help ANOTHER group of people that are being negatively effected. I have tried to explain that there is a very good reason for using the (absolutely accurate) language they dislike. I have also suggested that they focus on the wrong thing by getting caught up in the language and distract from their real and very important agenda. As you said, their frustration lies with not getting better support and understanding (and education that might have prevented their problem in the first place!) I get that and would advocate to the end of the earth for that to change. But they won't and shouldn't get support for a position that is simply wrong and harmful to others, (meaning an inaccurate and harmful use of the word "addiction") so perhaps they should drop that particular axe from their grinding schedule and fight for what they really want.

You are just hearing my frustration with them in these posts, 49er. And now I've probably sounded even more condescending... ah well. I guess I need to stay off the internet tonight. I don't have the self-control for it. Please give me a pass on this one... (And here Ia m participating in another thread hijack... I'm sorry, OP I can't seem to stop myself!!!)

[JoshCallahan]

These sorts of medications present a difficult choice for many, and are often given out like candy by doctors with out fully explaining the side effects never the less the difficulty you will experience trying to get off the. Lorazepam is addictive because it is a so short acting, thus requiring 3 to 4 doses per day. Eventually your body builds a tolerance and or dependence towards it and will require a larger dose. How do you tell you have a problem? Well as Dr. Mark Viner (aka doctorofmindmd on youtube) put it if you are taking it every four hours and find self becoming agitated if you do not you more then likely have a problem. The hard part about this all is some really cannot function without this sort of medication, and unless you your self have suffered from debilitating anxiety it is really hard to understand just how hard this really is. Medication is never an easy choice, but what is? would you rather function or sit and suffer its a hard choice for many. I know it was for me. Pro tip though this medication is only fda approved for 8 weeks of use so if your dr gives you more then that you might want to question his motives.