Off topic - Tankless Water Heater

[Eddie Fasolino]

but the water in there is constantly getting heated and not used.

But that was not a selling point of four of five posters that raved about their tankless so I did not mention it. But it appears that is the single advantage of a tankless replacement.

You could probably get a batter back up for that issue.

So you are telling me that in addition to the significantly higher cost of a tankless I also need a backup electrical generator? Additional cost and additional complexity. Your arguments are not selling tankless, they are killing it.

And un touched for 18 years probably means it is running at an incredibly in efficient rate.

You have absolutely zero idea that this is true. My gas usage charges for the last three months have been $24.00 total three months. This is peanuts.

You are another one who has swallowed the tankless marketing and is unable to make an objective analysis.

[Goofproof]

Finally some sanity, I want one but due to the overpriced product, voted it down as not cost effective over time. We have hard water here as do most places, tank electrics start burning elements after two years, the tankless would probably act the same, at 4 times the cost, it would be insane to switch. Jim

Yes, if I would look only at the cost I would not be buying one either.

But, when I factor in the convenience & the ability to supply "hot" water to many users all at the same time, "I" will probably buy one.

1st - I would otherwise have to replace two (2) tanks so the price difference gets a little bit closer.

2nd - All of my children live all over the USA.
But at holidays & other occassions, they have a tendency to return to the roost.

With the added wives, husband, & grandchildren, they don't all stay at our house - but quite a few do.

Now some of them will take night time showers & baths, but the majority of us prefer morning showers & baths. That is a lot of demand for hot water at the same time.

Even though we have 2 tanks at the moment, only 1 of the bathrooms is on the 2nd tank along with the clothes washer & kitchen (including a dishwasher).

The rest of the bathrooms share the same tank & the hot water runs out pretty quickly.

Also, keeping the water hot in 2 gas hot water heaters burns a lot of gas when no hot water is needed. Same for when we leave for the day or a few days.
The gas saved by using a tankless will also offset some of the additional cost.

I have no delusions that I can save enough money to offset all of the additional cost of a tankless. But, what I don't save I consider the cost of the "convenience" factor (i.e. not having to schedule the use of the showers, baths, clothes washer, & dishwasher).

It also helps that I do NOT have hard water, so I am hoping the tankless will last a little bit longer.

I am not rushing into this anyway as I 1st have to replace my 22 year old Central A/C & Heating (a much more expensive endeavor, by the way).

You must have a huge home, a family of four can do with a 30 or 40 gal water heater with a little forethought. Gas units are cheaper to run about 30% less, I can't see why you would need two water heaters, one centrality located makes sense. You also can expand your size with a external hot water storage tank hooked to the main water heater. If you home does need two units, you need to rent out the unused rooms to buy water heaters. I want to change my 40 gal electric to gas, but due to health am no longer able to do it myself, and seeing how others do their work, I just keep dealing with my electric junk. Jim

[CowFish]

Wow! Some good news to report! (If anyone remembers I started this thread because I had a small amount of water in the pan under my water heater.)

At church yesterday several friends told me that the gas company had replaced their water heaters when necessary and they were pleased with the service and the cost. So at 8:30 this morning I called the gas company.

The lady said she could send someone out to diagnose the problem, give me a quote on repairs or tank replacement or tankless replacement. The visit would be $75 and if I bought a new unit it would be credited to the price of the new unit.

By 9:45 the repairman arrived. He checked out the tank and the water pressure at several spigots. The only leak was from the pressure relief valve. He replaced the pressure relief valve, a piece of pipe leading to it and the cutoff valve.

By 11:00 he was gone and on next month's bill there will be a charge for $75 plus $18 for the two valves = $93.

A very nice, inexpensive and quick resolution for me! Thanks for all the many replies!

I had considered the next unit would be a tankless but now with this thought I will reconsider replacing with another tank.

The only significant advantage I see of the tankless is when I go away for some time the unit is not keeping a tank full of water hot. I wish people would be objective and say this rather than acting like their tankless is nirvana.

Also, I see some of the installers are recommending cleaning of jets and installing a new jet kit every two years. That is probably $200 and my tank heater has not been touched in 18 years.

Somewhere down the road I know my present heater will need replacing. I have big doubts about going to a tankless. I do not at all like the idea of hot water disappearing immediately if the power goes off which is what happens with a tankless.

I have taken hot showers a good many mornings by lantern light when the power was off and got to work on time. We also stayed in the house once for four days in winter without power and took a hot shower every morning. You can't do this with a tankless.

The repairman has a tankless and told me he was showering recently, all lathered up and the lights went off. He knew he had about 25 seconds of hot water in the lines to rinse and he did so very quickly. I would not like being in this position or worse.

When this tank needs replacing I will probably go with another tank. The tank is also much cheaper than the tankless.

There is only me in the house now and I don't use much hot water. Tankless would never pay back for me.

The repairman also showed me how to turn the heater burner off (pilot stays on) and how to turn the house water off if I go away for a long vacation.

Thanks Eddie Fasolino for making me stop and think through the disadvantages of tankless. The ads they run do make them sound like they are perfect, but they are not!

Headed to the office now!

[CowFish]

BTW, the gas company repairman was the nicest plumber ever in my house!

[StuUnderPressure]

BTW, the gas company repairman was the nicest plumber ever in my house!

So, why does the gas company do this?
To keep you running a gas water heater (tankless or not)?

[Space Oddity]

I also use the gas company for any needs related to my water heater, gas furnace and gas clothes dryer. They hire and keep good people, are reasonably priced and are staffed at an adequate level. They also have a lot more at stake in your satisfaction as compared to the local plumber and they have more resources and insurance should something major go wrong.

BTW, the gas company repairman was the nicest plumber ever in my house!

So, why does the gas company do this?
To keep you running a gas water heater (tankless or not)?

Cowfish sounds very bright and analytical in her posts. I don't see the purpose of stating the obvious.

[2flamingos]

Love my tankless! I don't see the need for a second one - I live in a 1920's house, my "master bath" and Kitchen are on opposite sides of the house, and the second bath is at the very back. THe only issue is the delay of the hot water reaching the faucet - which you would have from a tank water heater. No difference in time - except you NEVER run out of hot water with the tankless.

Your husban may have been talking about an "instant on water heater" for the kitchen, which is basically a mini electric heater that heats that water instantly when you turn it on. My take is it 's not worth the money for the unit or the power bill.

[Goofproof]

BTW, the gas company repairman was the nicest plumber ever in my house!

I'm glad you got it fixed, and found a good serviceman, there are good honest people out there, I used to be one, but for every good one, two are incompetent, and three in ten will rip you off.

Most companies, don't employ men to work for others, they do make agreements with others, for a share of your money (profits). The gas company may result in you getting a better class of serviceman, as if the job isn't correct, they are in the mix. It boils do to getting someone that cares, they are out there, but in todays world they are hard to find.

P. S. That was a simple repair, that valve is the safety pressure release, it opens to vent overpressure from the tank, preventing it from becoming a bomb if the temperature control fails. Jim

[Space Oddity]

Love my tankless!

Well of course we all "love" our water heaters - tankless or tank - compared to some of our parents or grandparents who had to heat water on a stove or use cold water.

Cowfish, as she says, will face a replacement decision somewhere down the road and has given it some analytical thought (kudos to her). What would be helpful to her (and me) is not a simple endorsement but some statement of the advantages of a tankless over a tank as you see it.

[Goofproof]

Love my tankless!

Well of course we all "love" our water heaters - tankless or tank - compared to some of our parents or grandparents who had to heat water on a stove or use cold water.

Cowfish, as she says, will face a replacement decision somewhere down the road and has given it some analytical thought (kudos to her). What would be helpful to her (and me) is not a simple endorsement but some statement of the advantages of a tankless over a tank as you see it.

Don't forget the wood or coal cook stove with the tank built in to heat water, that was the only hot water for my aunt until they moved to the city. They never had phone or electric, only a Model "T", to go to town. Life was much better then, and that was in 1965. They weren't killed by plastics or emf, just hard work. Jim

[2flamingos]

Love my tankless!

Well of course we all "love" our water heaters - tankless or tank - compared to some of our parents or grandparents who had to heat water on a stove or use cold water.

Cowfish, as she says, will face a replacement decision somewhere down the road and has given it some analytical thought (kudos to her). What would be helpful to her (and me) is not a simple endorsement but some statement of the advantages of a tankless over a tank as you see it.

I assumed since most of the reasons I love mine had already been covered, I would just add another endorsement. But, since you want my reasons for loving it - never ending hot water; lower gas bill; temperature adjustment is easier; did I mention never ending hot water and the lower gas bill? Also, the loca gas company ran a 24 month interest free financeing deal along with a sale price. SInce the existing water heater had flooded in the basement and was shot - I thought why the hell not. ANd now, I love my tankless.

[chunkyfrog]

When replacing gas water heaters with electric, we have used the largest tank size possible, and added an insulated blanket.
This was usually step one in getting off gas dependence. We have replaced two gas furnaces with electric; with no regrets.
Our local electric utility is publicly owned, and the gas company is out of control. Win, win.

[CowFish]

BTW, the gas company repairman was the nicest plumber ever in my house!

I'm glad you got it fixed, and found a good serviceman, there are good honest people out there, I used to be one, but for every good one, two are incompetent, and three in ten will rip you off.

Most companies, don't employ men to work for others, they do make agreements with others, for a share of your money (profits). The gas company may result in you getting a better class of serviceman, as if the job isn't correct, they are in the mix. It boils do to getting someone that cares, they are out there, but in todays world they are hard to find.

P. S. That was a simple repair, that valve is the safety pressure release, it opens to vent overpressure from the tank, preventing it from becoming a bomb if the temperature control fails. Jim

Thank you for the kind words Jim!

I always enjoy reading your posts.

[jencat824]

When replacing gas water heaters with electric, we have used the largest tank size possible, and added an insulated blanket.
This was usually step one in getting off gas dependence. We have replaced two gas furnaces with electric; with no regrets.
Our local electric utility is publicly owned, and the gas company is out of control. Win, win.

Wow frog, where you live must the the opposite of my part of the country! My elec bill is out of control, I'd had my elec meter checked, then just replaced on principle. Also an electrician check my elec out put, we put timers on everything possible - pool, fish tanks, etc. Our gas is sooooo cheap, I wish I could cool my house with gas. Sounds like you have the opposite problem. I feel for you, its hard to have a utility bill out of control. In my town the sewer bill is awful too & its because my township didn't do some stuff correctly according to the EPA, so we have fines added to our sewer bills to help the township (who we each pay thousands of dollars in taxes to) pay the EPA fines. Utility bills stink!

Cowfish, glad your fix was so easy. You brought up an interesting topic, and I'll bet we all learned something different from your thoughts about a tankless water heater.

Jen

[Hose_Head]

What I don't get is this claimed advantage of "never running out of hot water" when using a tankless hot water heater. I'm in my sixties and can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times over the years that I've run out of hot water. In various houses, that includes both electric and gas fired hot water heaters. None of these tanks were larger than 60 gallons capacity, too! And it includes the years when my teenage daughter lived at home!

The few times when we have run out of hot water, it was always attributable to a problem with the water heater - usually when one of the two electric elements stopped working, or a bad thermocouple on a gas heater.

What are you people using your hot water heaters for, anyway?!