New TAP PAP mask review

[SleepingUgly]

Is there anything about the mouth guard that would make the mandible stay up and touching the mouthguard? For example, in boiling and biting this thing, do grooves for the lower teeth form in the upper mouth guard? Or is there nothing whatsoever stopping the mouth from dropping open?

(Still trying to figure out whether I'll end up with major jaw drop, which would be the first of the deal breakers... Second and third would be if I still leak out of my mouth even with jaw closed, or cheeks puff up with air.)

[khauser]

Unfortunately nothing for the lower teeth. Imagine if it did ... when you awaken how would you get it loose? (I reached that thought by thinking we should propose it and then realizing the downside.)

Bummer...

[Pugsy]

Is there anything about the mouth guard that would make the mandible stay up and touching the mouthguard? For example, in boiling and biting this thing, do grooves for the lower teeth form in the upper mouth guard? Or is there nothing whatsoever stopping the mouth from dropping open?

No, nothing to tease that lower mandible to stay in place except maybe the brain which you know all too well isn't helping you out much in that regard.
BUT then when I fitted the mouth guard I didn't use any lower teeth force at all. It wouldn't be a natural bite alignment for me to do so. When my mouth is closed my lower front teeth are behind my top front teeth.

Given your situation and your lower mandible's desire to drop and your lip flutters .....I don't know even if you could make a groove, for a reminder for your lower mandible to stay in place AND also deal with the lip flutters, would be possible. I just don't know if it would be enough to do what you want/need it to do. Your brain hasn't been able to override the mandible's desire to fall down a bit.

[park_ridge_dave]

I can't believe there is no quick disconnect. This is almost a show-stopper for me, I really don't want to mess with taking it off in the middle of the night. I guess I could always disconnect at the back of the humidifier and walk with the hose.

Or maybe this goes on and off so quickly it's not a problem. Thoughts?

Hi, the swivel/ball joint between the CPAP hose and the smaller mask tube is designed to seperate, to act as a quick disconnect. To seperate it simply bend the swivel/ball joint beyond its maximum range and it will seperate. (not not pull it straight out).

When you want to connect it, do this in reverse - connect one side at an angle and rotate it back into position.

Mask Guy you "da person"! Works like a charm! It was in the manual but "my bad" I didn't grasp what it said. Now the mask is almost perfect!

I just got a call from Terri @ Airway Labs and she says that the chin straps should ship today (hopefully perfection will be achieved)

I'm going over to cpap.com to get one on order.

[SleepingUgly]

Your brain hasn't been able to override the mandible's desire to fall down a bit.

I know. It's one of the many ways my brain has betrayed me.

[Guest]

I can't believe there is no quick disconnect. This is almost a show-stopper for me, I really don't want to mess with taking it off in the middle of the night. I guess I could always disconnect at the back of the humidifier and walk with the hose.

Or maybe this goes on and off so quickly it's not a problem. Thoughts?

Hi, the swivel/ball joint between the CPAP hose and the smaller mask tube is designed to seperate, to act as a quick disconnect. To seperate it simply bend the swivel/ball joint beyond its maximum range and it will seperate. (not not pull it straight out).

When you want to connect it, do this in reverse - connect one side at an angle and rotate it back into position.

Mask Guy you "da person"! Works like a charm! It was in the manual but "my bad" I didn't grasp what it said. Now the mask is almost perfect!

I just got a call from Terri @ Airway Labs and she says that the chin straps should ship today (hopefully perfection will be achieved)

You're welcome, gald to help. The Chin Strap should be avalible today or tomorrow. There is also Face Book page for TAP PAP, like it if you want to receive notifications about product updates, tips etc.

[park_ridge_dave]

I just was looking at another thread RE: Mouth breathing elimination devices by a Dr. Sue in Hawaii. I was noticing that I seem to get a very similar result using this device. I.e. my tongue naturally rests just behind the front teeth/device and I get a "suction/seal" effect that stops the leakage. when my tongue is up there I can open my lips with no leakage.

He (Dr. Sue) says that you need to train your brain to do it automatically to promote nose breathing like in Zen Breathing exercises.

I am going to do more observations/training and maybe I'll finally be able to get rid of the chinstrap??? If I can succeed in that I'd be one happy camper!!

Anyway, has anyone else noticed the effect? Or am I just "sleep depraved er.... deprived"?

Cheers,

Dave

[Pugsy]

I am going to do more observations/training and maybe I'll finally be able to get rid of the chinstrap??? If I can succeed in that I'd be one happy camper!!

I don't know about formal training and that mouth guard from Dr Sue but when I first started therapy there was a lot of really ugly leak lines showing what I suspect was some pretty heavy mouth breathing. I used to wake up (pre cpap) with some major sore throats and dry mouth. I didn't want to go the FFM route even though I "thought" I was a mouth breather and since I normally could breathe through my nose just fine I opted for chin strap (mediocre results) and finally tape because it was less of a hassle. I admit...I didn't try real hard to find a good chin strap. I taped for about 2 months then I started getting lazy and would occasionally "forget" and already be half asleep and just would tell myself..."to heck with it for tonight" and sleep without it some nights. Eventually I was watching my reports and I discovered that my huge massive leaks from what I assumed to be mouth leaks were pretty much gone even on the nights when I didn't tape..

How much of all this was breaking a mouth breathing habit (likely from gasping for air) or maybe just learning how to keep that seal intact with my tongue I don't know. I didn't do it consciously but something happened. I can now yawn and even talk without any air pressure really entering my mouth from the airway.

I am pretty sure I still have moments here and there with some open mouth stuff but sometimes it just isn't all that much and doesn't wake me up and if I go into large leak territory it just is very often and is always pretty short lived.
I will take 10 to 20 minutes (out of 7 or 8 hours sleep) in large leak (that doesn't wake me up) over all night with a chin strap or tape any day of the week.
My goal has always been to get "good" sleep as opposed to a perfect set of numbers on a report.
Chin straps and/or tape isn't horrible by any means but to someone who really, really likes "less on my face and head"...I gladly will accept a less than perfect set of numbers if I sleep well and feel decent. Just me and what it takes to make me happy. Not slamming anyone who just has to see near perfect numbers to feel good.
But if wearing a chin strap causes more problems than a little leak now and then....well guess who has to go.
I never could figure out one that wouldn't slide all over the place and would wake me up a gazillion times night or if it wouldn't slide it was so darn tight I had a headache from it.

[Pugsy]

Well I finally managed to create some rain out. Got cold here last night and I turned the house furnace heat down so that the bedroom probably got around 55 or lower. The rain out can happen when the moisture pools in the hard little plastic thing where the vent is and when on my side I had a couple drops of moisture run out onto my cheek.
Still no cold shower though and no snorting water up the nose.
I was using my PR S1 in Classic mode with setting of 4 and bedroom temp pretty darn cold.
Woke up really due to a stomach bug issue and felt the water on my cheek when I rolled over on my side to get ready to turn the machine off (laid there for just a little while deciding if the stomach bug was real or not).

[Pugsy]

Tap Pap did exceptionally well last night. I am getting where I barely notice it is attached to me. I already commented about my rain out last night. I am a happy camper with the Tap Pap. It is so nice to be able to lay on my side and not have to hunt for the edge of the bed pillow or make a nest in my buckwheat pillow to allow for mask to rest without pressure on it.
Not that making a nest was that much of a big deal but remember....I am a lazy sot and I don't want to do anything more than what is absolutely necessary. I am a firm believer of the K.I.S.S. principle...keep it simple when we can.

Report from last night Mar 7. Very nice report. Leak is exceptionally good for me. Gotta brag just a little.
Short night...stomach bug so went to bed late and got up early.

Here are both reports...SleepyHead and Encore so you can compare how they look. I concluded the rain out experiment last night with the PR S1 and will be going back to the S9 with ClimateLine hose tonight. It's much lighter than the PR S1 standard hose with the Padacheeks hose cozy on it.

The reports pretty much speak for themselves. FWIW..I made zero changes to any settings yet look at the AHI...night before last it was 2.5...last night 0.6. Just an example of "we don't sleep the same every night". I almost always will have an increase in pressure and subsequent vent rate (showing up as a little blip upwards) around 90 to 120 minutes into my sleep cycle.
It's probably REM stage sleep where my OSA is known to be severe and I probably need a little more pressure. Same thing in the wee hours of the morning. Last night didn't need all that much more pressure but I have seen it push 20 cm and not be able to blame it on leaks. So that's why I use auto adjusting pressure modes. Sometimes I don't need much difference like last night and sometimes those events must be on steroids because I can need upwards of 18 and above to prevent them.

[Catnap]

Has anyone tried this with the Aussie hose? That's the hose I use in the winter and it's heavy compared to a regular hose; heavy enough that I can't use the Swift FX with it. Every time I move even slightly, it disrupts the seal. Even with the Swift LT "locked" into the headgear, I have to keep adjusting the Aussie hose to prevent drag on the mask, not just from the hose but also from its rather bulky attachment to the mask. I love the idea of the Tap Pap since I'm a minimalist when it comes to face masks, too, but I kind of hate to invest in it for a "summer only" mask, which is what the Aussie turned my Swift FX into.

[Pugsy]

No Aussie hose but last 2 nights with regular hose on my PR S1 and Padacheeks heavy fleece hose cozy and I am pretty sure that combination weighs a lot more than the Aussie hose.
I know what you mean about the added weight on the mask...I would have similar issues with my Swift FX and the hose cozy...that's why I was using the S9 with Climateline during the winter.
So that report above from last night...that's with the regular hose and Karen's really nice heavy fleece hose cozy and I had zero issues with it pulling on the mask.

Has anyone tried this with the Aussie hose?

[rosacer]

Pugsy

I have been following your adventure with the TAP PAP, very useful information thanks.

Do you think you can use a hose management thingy ?

I have a bad time with my lovely Headrest deconstructed due to mouth breathing. I have become unable to keep the seal with my tongue against the roof of the mouth it makes leaks on the corner of the mouth if I tape in the middle, also I wake up in the night to open one corner with my fingers to make the air trapped to go out as a balloon deflates.

I say to myself that the mouth piece could maybe work as a mouth guard to force my brain to keep the mouth closed. What could arrive too is that all the thing will fell out my mouth

rosie

[Pugsy]

Do you think you can use a hose management thingy ?

Sure, absolutely a hose management thingy could easily be used. I just have personally never cared for that type hose routing.

My headboard would make a perfect base for some sort of rigging since it is an antique iron bed with lots of scroll work.
I have tried using it as a hose management system in the past...but I just prefer to lay the hose around the bed pillow.
When I turn from side to side...I don't remember fiddling with the long hose but I must since it comes with me. So I just have never really had the need or desire to route any hose up over my head like the Hose buddy or similar setup does.

For those that do prefer the hose overhead with or without the hose management thing keeping it up in the air...There's no reason at all for the Tap Pap to present any problems in that area.

I was a bit concerned about the mouth guard falling out...initially. That was quickly put to rest once I did the boil and bite fitting. That guard isn't going anywhere until I pull on it to remove it. I can talk with it in place and it doesn't budge.

I was also hoping that the presence of the mouth guard would sort of help remind my brain to keep mouth shut...because when I am on my back I know it falls open sometimes...sometimes a lot open and sometimes just barely open.
I realize retraining takes a bit of time but last night's leak line was darn near perfect and no mouth opening at all.
Probably shouldn't say that because 49er has sent my aliens packing and they will probably get here tonight and I will have a mess of leaks tonight.

My other hope was that the presence of the mouth guard would maybe help with some teeth grinding issues I think I have been developing along with a bit of TMJ discomfort. So far so good in that regard but I know that too will take some time.

[Sir NoddinOff]

This series of reviews, plus the subsequent back and forth comments represents one of the most comprehensive product reviews I've seen quite awhile, maybe ever. Great job Pugsy et al.