OT: Elderly home nurse refuses to perform CPR, woman dies

[cosmo]

No need for a police scanner.

http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/763

This is Chicago's feed, should be interesting on a weekend with all those shootings

[zoocrewphoto]

Totally understand about the DNR issues as my mother had one when she was alive. But if this person didn't have one and died in this manner, that is criminal.

49er

According to the news report I saw, this facility does not allow the staff to do CPR on ANYBODY. So, it had nothing to do with a DNR. The statement from the facility did not mention a DMR either, only that it is against policy to perfom CPR.

It was speculated that the facility is afraid that they could be sued for performing CPR as apparently the good samaritan law does not apply to people who are paid for their service. For example, a nurse in the ER would not be considered a samaritan, while somebody coming upon an accident would be.

I think standing back and doing nothing seems far worse, but they seem to think that is a better option.

When listening to the 911 call, it seemed like the lady on the phone expected the emergency personnel to perform CPR (That's why I'm calling you), so I don't think there was an objecting of CPR on this particular lady, just that everybody there thought they would lose their job if they tried, and they decided that was more important. I don't think I would want a job that put me in that kind of situation.

[kteague]

Tonight's news reported the nurse is on voluntary leave and that the company now says she misunderstood the rules. So much for them saying they are standing behind her and that she followed their procedures. Looks like they're gonna throw her under the bus to try to do damage control.

[49er]

Tonight's news reported the nurse is on voluntary leave and that the company now says she misunderstood the rules. So much for them saying they are standing behind her and that she followed their procedures. Looks like they're gonna throw her under the bus to try to do damage control.

That is the way it always turns out, doesn't it?

I hope that woman has a good lawyer.

49er

[Bons]

I moonlight as a home health aide (housework, hygiene help, etc.). It is against the law for us to do anything that can be considered medical care, even putting a bandaid on a cut. All of our clients are informed of that policy.We could be arrested for performing CPR while on the job.

Perhaps the "nurse" was not really a nurse, since assisted living facilities are not required to have nurses on staff at all hours. In that case, there was no one who could legally perform CPR.

That is absolute, total bulls-it.

Arrested? Who told you this inane, ignorant garbage? The "Good Samaritan" laws in your state would absolutely protect you or similar staff from liability for coming to the aide of someone in an emergency situation.

If someone in your care cut open a vein would you sit there and watch him bleed to death, knowing an ambulance would come far too late?

Same with CPR.

Whatever idiots tell people like this to do nothing for fear of getting sued should themselves have the living hell sued out of them when people die as a result of the complete misinformation they have spread.

Just so you know, I have to go to my agency today for re-trainng because I put a prescription ointment (prescribed to that client) on a client at the client's request. And this of course will be recorded in my employee file. I was in violation of state law and company regulations.

All clients sign a paper (not hidden in fine print but a separate agreement page) acknowledging that home health aides are forbidden from providing any medical care, including CPR.

[cosmo]

Just so you know, I have to go to my agency today for re-trainng because I put a prescription ointment (prescribed to that client) on a client at the client's request. And this of course will be recorded in my employee file. I was in violation of state law and company regulations.

Who ratted you out?

[sleepstar]

I'm really confused by that article

I listened to the audio and it doesn't seem like the nurse knows about the DNR? It seems that she just does not want to do CPR herself? If she was aware of the DNR, would she not have said that when asked to do CPR?
Obviously we won't ever know exactly what happened

I sure as hell hope I never am in that situation though

[Bons]

I ratted out myself, since not telling the truth would have made things worse, and I'd have been found out anyway.

Supervisor called to ask about something to do with the client's condition, and I mentioned the sore. She then asked whether I put anything on it and I realized my mistake - was supposed to have refused to do it. Since I put it on, client will expect other aides to do the same... putting the other aides in difficult position.

Some days I'm very tempted to give up this moonlighting job and go back to the old one of selling fish. The values of this one are opposed to my pastoral job's!

It gets ridiculous. For example, since we can't give eye drops, but some clients are totally unable to self-administer, we are told to place the bottle in the client's hand, guide the hand to their eye, and help them squeeze the bottle. Absurd!!

[jnk]

Sometimes government laws, agreements, contracts, and "ethics" all must be tossed aside, or "violated," in order for actions to meet the standards of human decency in a given situation.

Whether this situation was such a situation, I don't know. And I'm not sure I'll ever know.

But I do know that such situations can arise.

And my heart goes out to the people whose jobs involve finding themselves in such confusing circumstances on a regular basis.

I'm not sure I could handle that kind of job.

In fact, I'm sure I couldn't.

[cosmo]

It gets ridiculous. For example, since we can't give eye drops, but some clients are totally unable to self-administer, we are told to place the bottle in the client's hand, guide the hand to their eye, and help them squeeze the bottle. Absurd!!

What would you do if they needed immediate cpr and EMS would not arrive in 7 mins?

[jnk]

Hypothetical medical questions can sound innocent but can still be trick questions that can be used against someone working in or near the field.

[chunkyfrog]

I predict that a few nursing students are seriously considering a change in their career plans.
You'd almost have to be crazy to want the job.

[BlackSpinner]

It gets ridiculous. For example, since we can't give eye drops, but some clients are totally unable to self-administer, we are told to place the bottle in the client's hand, guide the hand to their eye, and help them squeeze the bottle. Absurd!!

What would you do if they needed immediate cpr and EMS would not arrive in 7 mins?

It becomes like those "problems" we got in school back in the early 60's "Who would you let into your bomb shelter" and you would get a list of various minority groups and people with problematic issues. Or there was the one "would you steal medication to keep your kid alive?" (Is property theft worse the negligence causing the death of a child?)

For many people in the situation mentioned it is the same way. Do they perform CPR and lose their jobs, there bye not being able to feed and house their kids or do they do as that person did trust what she had been told and get thrown under the bus for the sake of PR? In neither case would they easily find another job. There is no win-win solution. The front line staff are SOL in any situation. There is no "I did the right thing" if you have dependents who are screwed because you felt noble.

[cosmo]

Hypothetical medical questions can sound innocent but can still be trick questions that can be used against someone working in or near the field.

I wouldn't hesitate for 1 second.

[BlackSpinner]

Hypothetical medical questions can sound innocent but can still be trick questions that can be used against someone working in or near the field.

I wouldn't hesitate for 1 second.

When did you stop beating your wife?