OT: Elderly home nurse refuses to perform CPR, woman dies

[hyperlexis]

Yeah I heard this on CNN and it's horrifying. However I do not think it was classified as a nursing home -- rather an assisted living home for older adults. If it was a nursing home I know the nurses would have done cpr. The person on the phone may not have been an actual RN but just a staff person. Shocking regardless.

And even more crazy was the dead woman's daughter was an RN and she said she understood/agreed with the policy not to have staff doing cpr.

Crazy.

[BlackSpinner]

And even more crazy was the dead woman's daughter was an RN and she said she understood/agreed with the policy not to have staff doing cpr.

Crazy.

No I wouldn't allow that either. Both my parents have made it very clear - DNR - And in my mothers situation it will come as a release.

CPR can be very rough on the elderly, they are very fragile and one will end up with much bruising and broken ribs.

And anyway all CPR does is keep the blood/O2 moving until someone can get a defibrillator there to restart the heart. CPR by itself rarely restarts the heart.

[hyperlexis]

I moonlight as a home health aide (housework, hygiene help, etc.). It is against the law for us to do anything that can be considered medical care, even putting a bandaid on a cut. All of our clients are informed of that policy.We could be arrested for performing CPR while on the job.

Perhaps the "nurse" was not really a nurse, since assisted living facilities are not required to have nurses on staff at all hours. In that case, there was no one who could legally perform CPR.

That is absolute, total bulls-it.

Arrested? Who told you this inane, ignorant garbage? The "Good Samaritan" laws in your state would absolutely protect you or similar staff from liability for coming to the aide of someone in an emergency situation.

If someone in your care cut open a vein would you sit there and watch him bleed to death, knowing an ambulance would come far too late?

Same with CPR.

Whatever idiots tell people like this to do nothing for fear of getting sued should themselves have the living hell sued out of them when people die as a result of the complete misinformation they have spread.

[hyperlexis]

And even more crazy was the dead woman's daughter was an RN and she said she understood/agreed with the policy not to have staff doing cpr.

Crazy.

No I wouldn't allow that either. Both my parents have made it very clear - DNR - And in my mothers situation it will come as a release.

CPR can be very rough on the elderly, they are very fragile and one will end up with much bruising and broken ribs.

And anyway all CPR does is keep the blood/O2 moving until someone can get a defibrillator there to restart the heart. CPR by itself rarely restarts the heart.

Well, this lady, according to CNN, didn't have a DNR. Your parents may may, but she didn't.

And the point of CPR is to oxygenate the body when the heart has started fribrillating, in an abnormal rhythm. Rarely is there asystole where the heart simply stops. CPR is the point entirely -- to prevent brain damage and death, until paramedics can arrive and render further care and restore a normal heart rhythm.

And bruising or broken ribs compared to dying? Hmmmm tough choice.

[jdm2857]

It seems like the use of CPR is controlled more by lawyers than by doctors.

[Goofproof]

And even more crazy was the dead woman's daughter was an RN and she said she understood/agreed with the policy not to have staff doing cpr.

Crazy.

No I wouldn't allow that either. Both my parents have made it very clear - DNR - And in my mothers situation it will come as a release.

CPR can be very rough on the elderly, they are very fragile and one will end up with much bruising and broken ribs.

And anyway all CPR does is keep the blood/O2 moving until someone can get a defibrillator there to restart the heart. CPR by itself rarely restarts the heart.

Even with a defib handy, successful restart is 30 to 40%, I have one installed, but it was installed with defective leads. With what I know now, I would NEVER allow one to be put in me. Jim

[ems]

I moonlight as a home health aide (housework, hygiene help, etc.). It is against the law for us to do anything that can be considered medical care, even putting a bandaid on a cut. All of our clients are informed of that policy.We could be arrested for performing CPR while on the job.

Perhaps the "nurse" was not really a nurse, since assisted living facilities are not required to have nurses on staff at all hours. In that case, there was no one who could legally perform CPR.

This is ridiculous. I'm not a nurse or health care worker... but if anyone near me suddenly fell to the floor do you really think I'd stand by and do nothing? Who makes or makes up the rules where you work?

[49er]

I moonlight as a home health aide (housework, hygiene help, etc.). It is against the law for us to do anything that can be considered medical care, even putting a bandaid on a cut. All of our clients are informed of that policy.We could be arrested for performing CPR while on the job.

Perhaps the "nurse" was not really a nurse, since assisted living facilities are not required to have nurses on staff at all hours. In that case, there was no one who could legally perform CPR.

This is ridiculous. I'm not a nurse or health care worker... but if anyone near me suddenly fell to the floor do you really think I'd stand by and do nothing? Who makes or makes up the rules where you work?

Totally agree.

When I worked in special ed, we were required to have CPR and if I remember correctly, we were protected by the good Samaritan Laws of the state. Anybody who is prevented from obtaining cpr certification and performing it who works with vulnerable populations needs to find another employer if at all possible.

Totally understand about the DNR issues as my mother had one when she was alive. But if this person didn't have one and died in this manner, that is criminal.

49er

[cosmo]

So much for all the cpr naysayers....

http://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/ ... using-CPR/

March 04, 2013

Video: Ga. officer brings man back to life using CPR

The officer is being honored by his department for his heroic efforts when a man stopped breathing

Maj. Chris Matson said Master Patrol Officer Christopher Simmons was approached Feb. 26 about 3 a.m. by a motorist on her way to take her adult son to the hospital for treatment. Matson said the man, 41, was unconscious and unresponsive when Simmons and the man's parents brought him inside the BP Connect store on Old Dixie Road in Forest Park.

The lifesaving measure was caught on the store's videotape, said Matson.

[Christine L]

So much for all the cpr naysayers....

http://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/ ... using-CPR/

March 04, 2013

Video: Ga. officer brings man back to life using CPR

The officer is being honored by his department for his heroic efforts when a man stopped breathing

Maj. Chris Matson said Master Patrol Officer Christopher Simmons was approached Feb. 26 about 3 a.m. by a motorist on her way to take her adult son to the hospital for treatment. Matson said the man, 41, was unconscious and unresponsive when Simmons and the man's parents brought him inside the BP Connect store on Old Dixie Road in Forest Park.

The lifesaving measure was caught on the store's videotape, said Matson.

Young whippersnapper, There is a big difference between a 41-year old and an 87-year old. I have been in the room when paramedics started CPR on an 89-year old relative. Could hear ribs breaking and the lady screamed and was revived but died on the way to the hospital.

Traumatic for everyone present and the victim. The family swore to never let one another get this way without a DNR on file and readily available.

You might want to read this story for your own edification.

Gariepy began CPR while Nichols-Ross and one Norman's sons-in-law raced across town to retrieve his do-not-resuscitate orders from the Hendricksons' refrigerator door. Once the orders were in hand, an emergency crew that had arrived ceased attempts to revive Norman. He died on the sidewalk.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02 ... -wake?lite

Many of us are not afraid of death. But we are afraid of how we die at the hands of do-gooders.

[BlackSpinner]

So much for all the cpr naysayers....


The lifesaving measure was caught on the store's videotape, said Matson.

Why do you think it is a news story? - because it is very, very rare. That was from my own CPR instructors. 99.9% of the time you are doing it to keep the blood flowing until the people with the real equipment come. The instructors made it very clear that they themselves had actually not revived anyone with just CPR in all their years of working as EMTs.

[johnthomasmacdonald]

ChristineL - you look a lot like the actress Laurie Holden on "the walking dead"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurie_Holden

[Suddenly Worn Out]

California has some really whacky laws. I always say, California is where all the fruits and nuts go to live. California used to be a great state, a state Americans looked up to. Its not really that way anymore, now California is a base of extreme leftist liberalism and extremely weird and restrictive laws.

Any other state, if an elderly home nurse refused to do CPR on someone needing it under their care, they'd be sued at the minimum. And might even have manslaughter/murder criminal charges brought against them for abandoning the duty to care principle.

Eric

[cosmo]

I have been in the room when paramedics started CPR on an 89-year old relative. Could hear ribs breaking and the lady screamed and was revived but died on the way to the hospital.

This lady didn't have a DNR paper, didn't have family with her...All she had was a stranger indifferent to her situation.

The old timer was living in an independent living facility. So she was probably able to look after herself up until that point.

The nurse can have a book full of excuses but at the end of the day, she is still a coward. Her family should be ashamed at her and she never be employed to care for others again.

[kteague]

Was reading an article today about this, but I doubt we yet have all the details. I can't debate the value or lack thereof where CPR is concerned. Those who have been maintained until other measures could be taken can certainly sing its praises. I have a family member who has coded in the hospital and had CPR performed several times over the years, the last time probably 10 years ago. Afterward they had no new health issues, just the same ones they were hospitalized with, which did not prevent them from having a decent quality of life. For them and their family, CPR was truly a lifesaver. For every postive story, I know several not-so-positive ones. I don't see a one-size-fits-all solution to such a personalized issue.

The article I read said this was an independent living facility, and does not include nursing care. That's different from assisted living level of care (as reported in other articles) which includes nursing. Not sure which is accurate. The family acknowledged they were aware of the terms of residence. Not saying I agree or that I could work with that kind of restrictions, just that I can't crucify the nurse for an agreed upon arrangement. How is this different from when there is a DNR directive in place?

Every situation will have a myriad of considerations, and I just hope I'm never put in a situation to make such a difficult decision blindly. I am not a medical professional, but I do know how to do CPR. I value life, but I don't think living is always the better option. In a split second rarely will someone have full knowledge to make a decision everyone on the outside will agree with. In this situation, it was handled exactly as agreed upon by the parties directly involved. I am more concerned with facility procedures than this nurse's actions. These situations happen all the time, this one just happened to make the news. The 911 operator placed the burden of her job responsibilities on the shoulders of another. Both women did their jobs. There was just no meeting of the minds in this situation.