Does C-flex feel like BiPap?

[DCTom]

I tried to titrat on BiPap; it was a horrible experience. I felt like I was on a ventilator. I could actually see my chest rise and fall and I felt like I was being forced to breath. Does D-flex feel the same way? I'd like to try C-Flex because I am really struggling, but I don't want to waste my time and money if it's the same as BiPap. Any comments?

[MartiniLover]

Not the same. I can't say anything more.

[Reb]

[quote="DCTom"]I tried to titrat on BiPap; it was a horrible experience. I felt like I was on a ventilator. I could actually see my chest rise and fall and I felt like I was being forced to breath. Does D-flex feel the same way? I'd like to try C-Flex because I am really struggling, but I don't want to waste my time and money if it's the same as BiPap. Any comments?

[Amigo]

I tried to titrat on BiPap; it was a horrible experience. I felt like I was on a ventilator. I could actually see my chest rise and fall and I felt like I was being forced to breath. Does D-flex feel the same way? I'd like to try C-Flex because I am really struggling, but I don't want to waste my time and money if it's the same as BiPap. Any comments?

DCTom, I have never used a BiPap, but have been using a CPAP with C-Flex since October, 2003.

My pressure is 14, and although that's not as high as some, is still quite "forceful," and trying to exhale against it was suffocating to me.

With C-Flex enabled I feel no pressure whatsoever when I exhale, and it makes breathing with the machine very comfortable and natural.

Good luck resolving your problem, and like others said, please don't give up.

[Mile High Sleeper]

I started on APAP with c-flex at 3 and it felt very natural, no trouble exhaling right from the start. After 3 months, went into the sleep lab for my first titration and was on BiPap for the sleep study. BIPap was never in sync with my breathing, very cumbersome. For me, c-flex is way better.

[Handgunner45]

DC and Mile High,

I would suspect that they did not try to titrate you with a BiPap. If this were the case you would have felt a definite relief of pressure when you exhaled. What I suspect is that your sleep labs used the same machine that my sleep lab did, and the same machine that we use at the hospital I work in, that machine being a Reapironics S/T. This machine can be set to straight CPAP but does not have the C-Flex expiratory relief. When set to CPAP mode it provides just that, a constant positive air pressure. I believe the main reason for them using this machine is that they can remotely control and monitor that pressure. If this is actually the case then I can assure you that the CPAP with C-Flex is much more comfortable. I imagine that actually using BiPap would be just as comfortable or more so depending on the pressure you are prescribed. Some of the members of this forum have had problems with breathing synchronization with some of the different Bilevel machines but I can't say if any of them were using the BiPap S/T.

[dsm]

Handgunner,

Good point & most likely on the mark.

Re the Bipap S/T, I have the Harmony II model (at least that is what is written on a small label on the motherboard inside). This is a brand new current model.

As far as I know, it is the model that came out after the Synchrony S/T and looks exactly like a Bipap Pro 2 with Biflex (which in turn is the same case as the Remstar AUTO with Cflex), but it is white in colour vs the dark colour of the Bipap Pro 2.

It has Biflex & that appears to be operable in CPAP & BIPAP (non S/T) modes.
In S/T mode the biflex is disabled.

I think there are several different models that now get collectively called the Bipap S/T. I noticed also that the very 1st portable BiLevel ever (in a biggish square box & made by Respironics), is also called the Bipap S/T.

Very confusing for us users

Cheers

DSM



RE cflex - this was a great innovation added by Respironics & without doubt works well for many people.

D

[Handgunner45]

I should clarify. The machine I am refering to is the BiPap S/T D. This machine is used for respiratory assistance in a hospital setting. I am not sure if it is even supported by Respironics any more but it is a workhorse and there are still a lot of them around. We have a mobile sleep study lab that comes to the hospital where I work and they bring one of these to titrate patients. You can get a look at the machine at the link listed below.

http://www.kumc.edu/SAH/resp_care/bipap.html

[DCTom]

Here is how BiPap felt during titration. I would take a small breath and BOOM it would inflate me like a balloon. It forced me into a very unnatural breathing pattern. Also seemed like it wanted to make me breathe more often than I wanted to. The tech told me they set it so that it would interact with my breathing but it did not. The tech told me I was odd in that most people breathe about 12 times a minutes while I breathe 6 to 8 times a minutes. Who knows? She didn't seem too bright. I had asked to be titrated on c-flex and my doctor was not familiar with it. He told me they'd titrate me on BiPap/C-flex. Whatever that is!!! When I got to the sleep clinic, it was clearly not C-flex (the tech never heard of it either). I bought a C-flex on CPAP.com yesteday so I guess we'll find out soon. I'll let you all know but I am encouraged by all the people on these boards who use it. I think all sleep docs and techs should be required to spend some time on these boards. You all know more than any doctor or sleep tech I've seen.

[NightHawkeye]

The tech told me I was odd in that most people breathe about 12 times a minutes while I breathe 6 to 8 times a minutes. Who knows? She didn't seem too bright. I had asked to be titrated on c-flex and my doctor was not familiar with it. He told me they'd titrate me on BiPap/C-flex. Whatever that is!!! When I got to the sleep clinic, it was clearly not C-flex (the tech never heard of it either). I bought a C-flex on CPAP.com yesteday so I guess we'll find out soon.

Tom, I think what the tech told you is probably correct. I've had trouble with both BiPAP and C-flex because the machines want me to breath faster than I normally do. When that happens, I start hyperventilating.

If you don't use C-flex then you won't have a problem. If you want to use C-flex, then most likely you will probably have to keep leaks to a minimum.

Good luck with your new machine.

Regards,
Bill

[DCTom]

Bill, what are the signs/symptoms of hyperventilating? Is it obvious?

[brasshopper]

I think that there are a number of modes for bipap.

Your bipap will be set to one (or, possibly when they don't contradict more than one) of these modes:

There is bipap that reacts to your breathing. Until it detects an exhalation, it keeps pumping at the higher pressure. One way or the other, when you breathe in, it tries to detect that and push at a higher pressure, and when you breathe out it tries to detect this and it pushes at a lower pressure. I think that this is the way most home devices work.

There is "timed backup" bipap that is set to force you to take a breath every so many seconds - if it does not notice you breathing and follow you through a cycle it will cycle for you. In other words, say, the timer is set to 20 seconds. You breathe in normally, and it just follows you - but if the mode has not changed from in to out or from out to in after so many seconds, it flips them.

There is a totally timed mode that simply increases and decreases the pressure periodically, without regard to your breathing at all. (The one time I had a RAD/BiPAP/Whatever test, this was the mode).

As I read your original description, it sounded like your machine was in what I am calling mode 3 - no matter what you did, it relentlessly kept huffing, high pressure, low pressure, high pressure, low pressure.

I think that in reality, almost no one operates their machine in that mode. Some machines don't even offer that mode. Some machines don't have a backup timer, they just drop pressure when they detect an exhalation.

If, in fact, your machine was in a mode where breathing was timed and it just puffed no matter what you did, experience when actually using the box at home is likely to be a lot better.

But, finally, it could have been in "timed backup" mode with the timer just set way too short. I guess I am saying that I think that the right adjustments will make you a lot happier.

[sthnreb]

With my Bipap auto, I sometimes wake up and wonder if the machine is even on because the breathing is so natural. I can't see how a auto cpap could be any better but I've never used one. That's the way it is supposed to operate. Anything else is either settings, bad machine or open mouth breathing. I did have one machine that would stop and start which was oviously a bad machine problem. It would turn off for no reason and then the auto on feature would cause it to come back on after causing me to choke without the air pressure. Either user error or faulty machine or just not set right (user error).

[NightHawkeye]

Bill, what are the signs/symptoms of hyperventilating? Is it obvious?

From http://health.allrefer.com/health/rapid ... -info.html, here is a concise description.

. . . you will be aware of having many of the associated symptoms, including dizziness or lightheadedness, shortness of breath, belching, bloating, dry mouth, weakness, confusion, sleep disturbances, numbness and tingling in your arms or around your mouth, muscle spasms in hands and feet, chest pain, and palpitations.

They also mention panic attack earlier in the discussion.

Regards,
Bill

[Sthnreb1]

Hyperventilating can be a large problem. I've never been anxious or hyperventilated while on my Bipap. But I went back reading some of the replys and they seem to refer that the machine tries to force breathing. The Bipap ST does do that. I have a Bipap Pro 2 and the Auto Bipap and neither of mine force breathing. Also, you can set the range as wide as the machine will go I would assume on the Ipap and Epap settings. My lab titrated settings were 12/8. It could be 14/6 (8 cm difference) just as well. The Auto allows you to set the maximum difference in Ipap and Epap. The Ipap is lots higher than Epap which supplies the relief on exhale normally with Bipap. If I exhale with either machine and just hold my breath, it stays right there until I inhale again, going back up to Ipap. As long as I am breathing in it stays on Ipap. When it detects I stop breathing in, it goes to Epap. I guess you could say it expects a constant rythmic breathing pattern. It will pick up my breathing motions and adjust accordingly. The idea of the Bipap is for people who have trouble breathing against the constant pressure of Cpap on exhale. A titrating lab test is to determine the cm of air to keep the airway open. The Auto does this too. If the airways closes, the air pressure increases. Oh well, most Cpap and Bipapers know all this. I'll just shut up.