Best solutions for keeping mouth shut while sleeping?

[rainydaywoman]

Ok, so I tried it again last night. I changed my position to on my left side almost in a fetal position and it really helped me not swallow - so far so good. But I haven't bought a chin strap or fashioned anything decent yet, so I just grabbed a pair of tummy control panties - don't laugh - well, go ahead and laugh, and put them over my head and so part of it was under my chin keeping my mouth closed and it seemed to work for awhile, but then my mouth started sputtering open at the highest pressure, a 9cm. So, after about 3 hours I gave up - also was starting to have the trouble exhaling.

I love the comfort of the nasal pillows, but I fear I may have to go for a hybrid mask or full face if can't solve this problem.

I'm going to call the Physician's Assistant tomorrow and see if I can get her to change my machine to a REmstar Auto CPAP with A-Flex. I think someone on here said the code is DS550 or something like that.

Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

Machine: Remstar 150p
w/ heated humidifier
Mask: Swift FX for Her nasal pillows

[Pugsy]

I taped my mouth for about 2 months when I first started therapy. I just didn't want to go the full face route. After a couple of months I started to get lazy and didn't tape and found out that I wasn't mouth breathing much, if any, any more. So we can retrain the brain to not mouth breath all the time.

I tried various homemade chin straps along with a couple of store bought chin straps with some limited success, I also tried polygrip denture strips with limited success.
I have zero problem with nasal congestion so I opted for taping my mouth.
My mouth breathing was more habit from gasping from air during apnea events. Once the brain learned it didn't need to gasp anymore then I didn't mouth breathe much any more. It pops up rarely now...never for very long and never huge. Mostly little lip flutters. Doesn't wake me up very often...doesn't show as a massive prolonged leak on my reports (another reason to have access to the reports to see if leaks are a problem or not) so I don't worry about it.
Mouth breathing will create a leak and show up on the software reports in the leak graphs. It's a leak..leak gets reported.

For a homemade chin strap that might offer a little more support than panty hose you might try an ace wrap in a width that would be comfortable and still offer support. Cheap easy chin strap.

Good luck tomorrow with the PA.

[rainydaywoman]

I taped my mouth for about 2 months when I first started therapy. I just didn't want to go the full face route. After a couple of months I started to get lazy and didn't tape and found out that I wasn't mouth breathing much, if any, any more. So we can retrain the brain to not mouth breath all the time.

I tried various homemade chin straps along with a couple of store bought chin straps with some limited success, I also tried polygrip denture strips with limited success.
I have zero problem with nasal congestion so I opted for taping my mouth.
My mouth breathing was more habit from gasping from air during apnea events. Once the brain learned it didn't need to gasp anymore then I didn't mouth breathe much any more. It pops up rarely now...never for very long and never huge. Mostly little lip flutters. Doesn't wake me up very often...doesn't show as a massive prolonged leak on my reports (another reason to have access to the reports to see if leaks are a problem or not) so I don't worry about it.
Mouth breathing will create a leak and show up on the software reports in the leak graphs. It's a leak..leak gets reported.

For a homemade chin strap that might offer a little more support than panty hose you might try an ace wrap in a width that would be comfortable and still offer support. Cheap easy chin strap.

Good luck tomorrow with the PA.

Thanks so much for all your great information, Pugsy! Do/did you use surgical tape to tape your mouth? Is it safe? I just worry about power outage and then I'd be rebreathing, etc. I saw a video on youtube where a guy recommended something called a "power out alert" that plugs into your power strip. Any thoughts?

[Pugsy]

I used plain old ordinary blue painter's tape because I am a tightwad and I had some left over from a painting job. They make a "delicate" version that isn't so rough on the skin but I really didn't have any problem with the regular. I think it depends on just how delicate and fragile your own skin is.

If power outages worry you then by all means get a power outage alarm. They are cheap...around $10 to 15 depending on where found.

I didn't worry about it because I tested things out ahead of time.
First... I just applied the tape and then played with opening my mouth and I found out that it takes very little effort to break the seal.
So assuming that I needed to open my mouth due to power outage it is easily done with simple reflex. A yawn is not difficult and will break the seal.
Second...I tested breathing through the mask without any power to see just how uncomfortable things go. I was able to go 30 minutes and then got bored and quit the test. I never felt like I was suffocating at all. Now I do understand that some people may not be comfortable with this situation but using a nasal pillow mask there just isn't much room for carbon dioxide to accumulate and present a huge change of a huge amount of rebreathing of the CO20. It's going to go out the vent.

The very first night I decided to tape we had a thunderstorm and yep, power went out. What woke me up was the quiet. I woke up laying there probably for 5 minutes breathing quite fine before I realized why things were so quiet. The tape was in place.
Right now I am testing using a battery and so far I can't get it to last a full night. Each night that I have finally woke up and switched over to a plugged into electric source machine I have found that according to the report times I am sleeping about 20 minutes with mask open and mouth closed (I quit taping long ago) and I am not in any distress at all. Again it is the quiet that seems to wake me up. So far this has happened 3 nights because at my setup the battery is not lasing all night.

But then I have been doing this for a long time and I don't have the apprehensions that a newbie might have...if I did I would just go buy one of those power outage alarms. It would be cheap peace of mind.

I don't think it is necessary to use a tape that is difficult to remove. The whole idea is just to have a gentle reminder to keep the mouth shut.

[bap40]

I use tape also with no problems. I used it for awhile then found I didn't need it anymore or so I thought. Went several months doing well without tape but then WHAM I was back to exhaling thru my mouth. I went back to taping for now and will see how it goes and if I can stop for awhile later on. I have been awakened with machine turned off (thanks to those darn cats) and had no trouble breathing with taped mouth.

[need2snooze]

My dr. told me not to sleep in a fetal position (my favorite), as that closes up the airway passage. Sleep with your head back, well, not thrown back, but not curled down like a baby. She said that you are more likely to open your mouth to breathe in the fetal position b/c of the constricted airway.

[StuUnderPressure]

My dr. told me not to sleep in a fetal position (my favorite), as that closes up the airway passage. Sleep with your head back, well, not thrown back, but not curled down like a baby. She said that you are more likely to open your mouth to breathe in the fetal position b/c of the constricted airway.

Interesting - and YES I know that is the general wisdom.
And I surely never claimed I was "normal".

But, when I sleep in the fetal position:
I don't need a chinstrap to keep my mouth closed - It stays closed on its own.
My pressure requirements (using an APAP) are less by at least 3 & sometimes 5 AND my
AHI also goes down (although it is usually less than 3 on a consistent basis).

A few months ago when I had some type of virus & was throwing up pretty regualarly (both ends), I slept that way for about 1 1/2 days withOUT my APAP.

Of course, since I did NOT use my APAP, I don't have any data to support it, but I think that my AHI could have been less than 5 even without the APAP.

So, maybe I can join the Circus & be featured alongside the bearded lady.

[idamtnboy]

I've been taping my mouth for about two years now. About six months ago I got chin strap but still keep on taping. The other night I decided to see if I get by without the tape and just use the chin strap. Well, it didn't work. My leak rate was 28.8 lpm. Usually it's zero.

I use Johnson & Johnson Hurt Free paper tape.

[Always tired]

I have a beard and a mustache and have always assumed tape would never work--does anybody know of someone who successfully tapes with a beard and stach? If so do you know what kind of tape?
Thanks,
A T

[Kitatonic]

I tried taping, but was uncomfortable with the thought about how deeply I sleep in light of Archangel's & my husband's warnings about taping. So then I tried taping under the chin, with the lip up, Chunkyfrog style, worked until my hypersensitive skin had an acne breakout from the paper tape. Both decreased the leaks slightly and continued to do so for a few weeks after the interventions.

Now I'm on my second week of using a cheap ($7=10) cervical collar. The small 2 1/2 inch one seems to be the most comfortable to keep my chin up. Incredibly the leaks are eliminated and the pressure has decreased slightly. No wake-ups at all last night.

[Jay Aitchsee]

I have a beard and a mustache and have always assumed tape would never work--does anybody know of someone who successfully tapes with a beard and stach? If so do you know what kind of tape?
Thanks,
A T

I have a mustache and have used "paper tape for sensitive skin" (Johnson&Johnson, maybe). I have found the tape comes off the mustache easier than off the skin. I've also found it doesn't take much. I use 1" wide tape horizontally from corner of mouth to corner of mouth. I have also successfully used a small strip vertically from under the nose to just below the bottom lip. I have found either of these will tend to keep the mouth shut and prevent mouth breathing. However, neither will (for me, anyway) prevent throat leakage and chipmunk cheeks. For me the only thing that controls throat leaks is a ffm, which equalizes the pressure. I have not been able to train myself to keep my throat closed by keeping my tongue at the roof of my mouth - even though I am not a mouth breather by day.

[blueh2o]

I think there should definitely be a focus on making sure your nasal passages are as clear as possible when training yourself to nasal breathe. If your nose is plugged you'll always want to mouth breathe no matter what you do! I used a chin strap (I think the one that Respironics makes in only about $14 online?) and used the Neti Pot, and nasal strips, and Flonase on a nightly basis. It took a few months but finally trained myself to nasal breathe after being a lifetime mouth breather. I ditched the chin strap but still use the nasal stuff regularly (even after my septoplasty/turbinate reduction).

[Jay Aitchsee]

Blue, there seems to be a subtle difference between mouth breathing (inhaling through the mouth) and throat leakage (loosing cpap pressure through the mouth). As I mentioned, I am not a mouth breather, but no amount of taping or chin straps will prevent the leakage from my nasal passages through my throat and into my mouth. Taping will prevent breathing through my mouth, but the pressue will still inflate my cheeks causing "chipmunk cheeks" which disturbs my sleep.

[dnvrdave]

I use a full face mask, and without taping, I wake with a totally dry mouth. After starting to have dental problems (cavities and receding gums), I decided to try taping, with 1-inch 3M micropore tape. It worked great, but was very difficult to remove from my lips. I saw a YouTube video of a guy who retracts his lips inside his mouth before taping. I also found that skin prep helps a lot. But now I'm waking with very sore front teeth (top and bottom) due to pressure from retracted lips. It seems I will have to give up that method, and tape my lips again. I just got some chapstick, but haven't tried it yet. I'm worried that there won't be enough to stick to, also because I have a beard and moustache. I wonder if I can put chapstick on my lips and skin prep on the whiskers. It's further complicated because I'm quadriplegic and have no finger dexterity. My questions:

1) Is it unusual to get a dry mouth with a FFM? It sounds like others only have a problem with a nasal mask.
2) Is it better to use chapstick or skin prep or both? Or switch to sensitive skin tape?

[Lukie]

I tried the Resmed and Respironics chinstraps but because they are stretchy I still had mouth leakage. So I bought the PapCap head restraint which is working beautifully because the strap under the chin is not stretchy, but firm and seems to hold my mouth closed for the night. You can get the same effect by taking
a baseball cap and cutting off the brim. Then attache velcro strips to both sides of the cap. then use a firm non-stretchy velcro strip around the chin and attach to the two velcro strips on the cap.