Battery Backups - Car Battery Jumpers?

[archangle]

What if I take your suggestion to try the Diehard JumpStarter and hook my S9 to it for the night sleep and the JumpStarter's charge gets depleted after 5 hours while I am still asleep? I use a traditional nasal mask which has no anti-asphyxia valve. In addition my mouth is kept closed by a chinstrap. So how could I breathe if the machine stopped suddenly? Notice that I am not like one of your floor sweeper machines. I am a human being!

Respironics actually warns of that risk on their chinstrap.

I think you'd open your mouth anyway.

However, what happens if your power goes of during any night and your machine stops blowing? Or if the CPAP machine simply breaks? If you're that worried, maybe you should ditch the chinstrap and use a full face mask with an anti-asphyxia valve all the time.

I do wish you could buy a standalone anti-asphyxia valve.

[2 B Sleeping Soundly]

I use a traditional nasal mask which has no anti-asphyxia valve. In addition my mouth is kept closed by a chinstrap. So how could I breathe if the machine stopped suddenly?

Respironics actually warns of that risk on their chinstrap.

I think you'd open your mouth anyway.

The real big misnomer about chin straps, in my experience, is that you can't breathe through the mouth with one on. I can breathe, talk, drink water, etc, because all it does for me is keep my jaw/mouth from relaxing to an opened state. IMHO, for a chin strap to prevent a user from opening their mouth or their lips enough to even be able to take a breath, it would mean that it is so tight that it would not even be comfortable enough to sleep with. My chin strap is only tight enough to assist me in not opening my mouth. It in no way prevents me from being able to open my mouth, should I need to.

[avi123]

Burke, OK I took part of your your suggestion and did the following:

I placed the Diehard JumpStarter #1150 in the laundry room with the trickle charger that came with it connected, and ran a 50' extension cord from the JumpStarter 110 v inverter outlet to my bedroom and connected it to my S9 Autoset 90 watt power supply and also to an electric clock . I set the Autoset on APAP at my top pressure of 12cm, and turned the humidifier to OFF. Everything ran OK for for 7.5 hours, and I even got nice data. But the charge in the JumpStart battery dropped to 64%. It will take more than 10 yours to charge it back to 100%. Before I try to unplug the trickle charger and run the Autoset WITH the humidifier set at #3 (out of max #6) but no climate line, and see what happens, I need to get this device to wake me up if the power stops, so that I could remove my mask:


http://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Controls ... d_sim_hg_2

or

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R ... reId=10051

[ColinP]

I need to get this device to wake me up if the power stops, so that I could remove my mask:

I find that I wake up on my own when the power goes off. The first time it happened I was a little confused and couldn't work out why I had to breathe so hard to get air, but now that the feeling is familiar, I just wake up, realise the power is off, check the clock to see if I should just get up or if I can still get an hour or two's sleep I'll connect the battery and go back to bed.

You can still breathe through a CPAP mask when the CPAP machine is switched off. Some air comes through the mask vent, and some comes through the machine itself via the hose - the machine doesn't close a valve or anything when it's switched off, the air just needs to flowthrough the pump. Admittedly there are restrictions to good airflow, and the body needs to work harder but this is what wakes me up.

[archangle]

You can still breathe through a CPAP mask when the CPAP machine is switched off. Some air comes through the mask vent, and some comes through the machine itself via the hose - the machine doesn't close a valve or anything when it's switched off, the air just needs to flowthrough the pump. Admittedly there are restrictions to good airflow, and the body needs to work harder but this is what wakes me up.

It's not safe to do that. Because there's very little pressure in the mask, very little air goes out through the exhaust vent. As you breathe out, your exhaled air goes down the hose, and then you rebreathe your exhaled air when you inhale. There's some leakage out the mask vents, and maybe some mixing of fresh and stale air in the hose, but CO2 will build up and O2 will drop. While most of us think we'll wake up, people die in industrial settings in "confined spaces" all the time without noticing anything is wrong before they pass out. Google "confined space training" and read up on it.

That's why they have anti-asphyxia valves in all full face masks.

Apparently, they believe you'll open your mouth and breathe that way if the machine stops with a nasal mask. Maybe a chin strap will keep you from opening your mouth if this happens while you're wearing a chin strap. I'm not that worried about it, but I can't say it's impossible.

[ColinP]

It's not safe to do that.

I agree that it's not a great idae, I was just stating my own experiences.

Apparently, they believe you'll open your mouth and breathe that way if the machine stops with a nasal mask. Maybe a chin strap will keep you from opening your mouth if this happens while you're wearing a chin strap. I'm not that worried about it, but I can't say it's impossible.

I have always used a nasal pillows mask, and have never used a chinstrap, nor taped my mouth, but every time I have woken up during a power failure, I have been breathing through my nose with my mouth closed. I think it's a case of the brain being conditioned to not open the mouth and if there is or isn't a chin strap doesn't make a huge difference in my case.

[avi123]

I need to get this device to wake me up if the power stops, so that I could remove my mask:

I find that I wake up on my own when the power goes off. The first time it happened I was a little confused and couldn't work out why I had to breathe so hard to get air, but now that the feeling is familiar, I just wake up, realise the power is off, check the clock to see if I should just get up or if I can still get an hour or two's sleep I'll connect the battery and go back to bed.

You can still breathe through a CPAP mask when the CPAP machine is switched off. Some air comes through the mask vent, and some comes through the machine itself via the hose - the machine doesn't close a valve or anything when it's switched off, the air just needs to flowthrough the pump. Admittedly there are restrictions to good airflow, and the body needs to work harder but this is what wakes me up.

Reply,

To convince me, please show your treatment data in graphs and/or Stats.

[archangle]

I have always used a nasal pillows mask, and have never used a chinstrap, nor taped my mouth, but every time I have woken up during a power failure, I have been breathing through my nose with my mouth closed. I think it's a case of the brain being conditioned to not open the mouth and if there is or isn't a chin strap doesn't make a huge difference in my case.

I believe the idea is that if you don't wake up, you'll open your mouth before suffocating. Otherwise, why would they put anti-asphyxia valves in FFMs and not in nasal masks.

Also, people don't suffocate at night when their nose clogs up, they open their mouth without waking or wake up. The situation is a bit different on a failed CPAP, though, because you can still inhale and exhale, it's just that the air goes bad.

However, I will admit to the possibility that some people would actually suffocate. I haven't seen any large scale lab studies of this. Maybe there are some wrong assumptions.

[ColinP]

To convince me, please show your treatment data in graphs and/or Stats.

I don't download data anymore - that grew a little tiresome after about six months, and I'll only bother downloading data if I feel I'm not sleeping properly. I don't even have the software installed on my current PC, and it would take me a while to find the card reader. I've told you what my experience of having power failures while asleep are, over the five years I've been on CPAP it has happened to me least once a year, and each time I've woken with my mouth closed and feeling frustrated at the amount of effort required to breath. If you choose not to believe me, then that's your choice. To be blunt I really don't care whether you believe me or not, but why would I lie?

I believe the idea is that if you don't wake up, you'll open your mouth before suffocating. Otherwise, why would they put anti-asphyxia valves in FFMs and not in nasal masks.

I'm fairly sure that is the what the idea is. That is also the reason many people are opposed to mouth taping.

Also, people don't suffocate at night when their nose clogs up, they open their mouth without waking or wake up. The situation is a bit different on a failed CPAP, though, because you can still inhale and exhale, it's just that the air goes bad.

Another difference is that CPAP users train themselves NOT to open their mouths while asleep. So I suspect that we are far less likely to open our mouths than someone who has not done that. Also, my personal tendency is to wake when suffering an apnea - my blood O2 levels did not drop that low during my sleep tests - I wake before they drop. Each is an individual, and each of us reacts differently.

However, I will admit to the possibility that some people would actually suffocate. I haven't seen any large scale lab studies of this. Maybe there are some wrong assumptions.

Once again, I agree with you

[Burkebang]

Before I try to unplug the trickle charger and run the Autoset WITH the humidifier set at #3 (out of max #6) but no climate line, and see what happens.

I would NOT recommend trying to run your CPAP with the humidifier turned on while sleeping. That may very well run the battery down during the night. Since you're using a chinstrap, I see no reason to take any chances with that.
Remember that this is supposed to be an emergency power supply, used only when you need it and when you need to test the battery's condition. It may be needed for more than one night also, so we should make due with passover humidification to conserve the battery.

I suggest you try running the machine at the pressures you normally use with the humidifier turned off and unplug the trickle charger. That will give you an accurate idea of how long it will last. I think you'll get two good nights of sleep out of it and I'd be very happy with that.