Any Idea Why My Brain is in a Fog?

[edm_msu]

MaxDarkside on Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:18 am
Hard to say, not a Dr, nor able to run tests. It could be something else, tho. I have fairly severe brain fog / grog and I have the above well within limits, I even went off Simvastatin due to other reasons. No difference for me going off of it. I do have neuropathy that is advancing, affecting my feet and organs now and my fog / grog seems to be worsening with it, so I'm starting to suspect might be related to that. I don't know. There are also brain chemicals that cause sleepiness, natural ones your body makes, the ones that make you want to sleep. Perhaps they are not "clearing" fully during sleep. Who knows. I, too, consume a bit too much caffeine to compensate.

Hope you figure it out. It sounds like a tough situation. Let us know of any progress.

old64mb on Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:46 am

edm_msu wrote:
Average Total Sleep = 6:47

That jumps out at me more than anything else. If you're averaging less 7 hours of sleep a night and feeling lousy, before going down all sorts of different and complicated routes...try to get 8 for a while and see how you feel?

However, on what's more than likely an unrelated topic, it's worth a conversation with your doctor if there's another statin that is appropriate - Simvastatin has recently gotten (deservedly) a lot of criticism in the medical literature and now has an FDA warning when prescribed at higher doses. Given you can usually achieve the same results treating hyperlipidemia with different doses of other statins, it's a little surprising that they prescribed it first line.

As far as the 6:47, also note that Time Awake is 6.1%. My Deep Sleep is also 6.1%. I am Awake for the same amount of time that I am in Deep Sleep, which is not good. I go to bed at 10 and wake up at 5:30. I usually wake up around 3 for a while. The sleep quality is not good and that is what I am concerned about.

Around 5 years ago I was on Lipitor and insurance required that I switch to a generic. I was switched to Simistatin and that has not changed. The reason that I recently started taking it is because my doctor insisted, again, that it helps my heart health. I don’t want to get off topic, but I’m 90% sure it doesn’t help. The reason I’m taking it is because it could be saving my life if it does help.

Ed M.

[Jay Aitchsee]

I think I'll feel good if I sleep better

I think the solution is numerous little things.

Or none of the above.

Ed, I think you're probably right. But, Max could be right as well. Thing is, you won't know until you do all those "little" things. Taking care of any deficiencies might not help, but it won't hurt, either - And you can check them off.
Old64 and I agree that more sleep would probably be a good thing. One thing that has helped me (I used to be an early riser, waking and getting up around 5:30) is just not getting up; or, getting up for the bathroom and going right back to bed - even though I knew I wouldn't be able to go back to sleep. Funny thing is, after a lttle while, I found that I was going back to sleep. Now, I still wake up around 5:00, but I get an hour or so more sleep before I get up.
I don't think your wake time is too far out. But, your deep is a little low. You can check the Zeo site for averages for people of your age. One caution - try not to obsess over any one particular area of sleep. I think that sets one up for insomnia. You don't want to be worrying about any aspect of sleep when you go to bed. I think your goal of "better" sleep is a good one and if you take care of all those little things your sleep will likely improve.

Jay

[MaxDarkside]

Today, I am nearly non-functional. I can barely type, but got 7 hours of sleep, tho punctuated a few times in the later stages. Why is the grog more severe? I have no idea. My blood tests are fine, 7 hours is probably good for my age. I can manipulate various things and while I can make things worse (like drinking alcohol just before sleep), I can't make it better. That suggests that the "control handles" I'm looking at, such as duration and quality of sleep, diet, exercise, pressures, AHI, etc... are not related to the cause, it's something else. What else? Who the heck knows. I think the docs need some tests for measuring various things that cause grog, rather than just throwing a stimulating drug at ya and calling it good.

I do know that for me grog is correlated sometimes with wind speed. Ha! LOL... Funny that, but it's probably because the wind kicks up allergens (pollen, mold spores, etc.) or maybe it's the (+) vs (-) ion charge thing However, today there's no wind, the flag out there hangs like a drape, fog this AM. So it's probably something else.

[MaxDarkside]

I do know I probably don't get enough exercise lately and it could well be that going for good walks probably increases lymph and blood circulation to remove accumulating toxins which could cause grog. I think I'll make a noble quest to increase walks, increasing distance and duration just a wee bit more each day, starting right now (grabs coat). I'm thin, but we all probably could do it more regardless of weight.

[old64mb]

Around 5 years ago I was on Lipitor and insurance required that I switch to a generic. I was switched to Simistatin and that has not changed.

Well, do keep in mind Lipitor has gone generic over the last few months too, so returning to it might be possible (and arguably advisable), so might want to have that conversation with your MD.

And yeah, I know it's bad to be waking up in the middle of the night, but if you're constantly going to bed at 10 and getting up at 5:30, you're talking 7:30 max - and you never achieve that. I hate to say it, but try going to bed at 9. Ruins your evenings, but see how you feel after a few weeks of doing that.

[chunkyfrog]

I know I sleep better when I go to bed BEFORE I'm totally wasted.

[edm_msu]

MaxDarkSide:
I have fairly severe brain fog / grog and I have the above well within limits

Max, there is a lot above that you are referring to. Are you sure you aren't overlooking something above?

Well, do keep in mind Lipitor has gone generic over the last few months too, so returning to it might be possible (and arguably advisable), so might want to have that conversation with your MD.

And yeah, I know it's bad to be waking up in the middle of the night, but if you're constantly going to bed at 10 and getting up at 5:30, you're talking 7:30 max - and you never achieve that. I hate to say it, but try going to bed at 9. Ruins your evenings, but see how you feel after a few weeks of doing that.

I'll specifically ask about Lipitor next week.
Going to bed at 10 is already earlier than I would like. I think that if my sleep quality was good then I would feel better. My 6:47 sleep time is 43 minutes less than 7:30 so there is room for improvement.

[Jay Aitchsee]

Max, I could be wrong, but I seem to remember you had quite a little "cocktail" at bedtime consisting of some Rx, OTC, and Alcohol. Do you suppose that could be contributing to the "Grog"? I know many meds, Rx and OTC do that to me. Particularly bad for me are "sedating" drugs like OTC benadryl or Rx clonazepam. Even NSAIDS seem to affect me that way. Of course, YMMV and I might not remember correctly.
For those following this thread, my research has shown there to be very few, if any, drugs which promote deep sleep and many so called sleep aids and Rx drugs given for sleep actually suppress deep sleep, even though they might be sedating.

Jay

[MaxDarkside]

Max, I could be wrong, but I seem to remember you had quite a little "cocktail" at bedtime consisting of some Rx, OTC, and Alcohol.

That was an experiment. It didn't work. I stopped that quite a while ago (numerous months I think). I have not had ANY of that stuff in a long while.

Max, there is a lot above that you are referring to. Are you sure you aren't overlooking something above?

Nope, well, might have missed one or two. I had a medical emergency, my internal medicine doctor on post ER follow-up ran a large sweeping panel on me, all sorts of stuff, many many tests and vials and many pages of results. Everything normal. The cause of the emergency was therefore classified as "neuropathy" (the proven and accepted idiopathic cause). Since I already was diagnosed with a neuropathy, the Doc and I looked at each other, shrugged our shoulders and said "Yup, makes sense, another symptom". I have my sleep under control, with all my gadgets (which now I set aside and use for spot checks so they also don't disturb me), I use no meds other than for my blood pressure (so I don't pop). My labs are good. My grog is bad.

I'm not here for a solution, I'm just saying "None of the Above" is a possibility, that's all.

[MaxDarkside]

In my case it could be stress also, another silent killer. My wife's last cardio appointment didn't go well. Her pulse is so weak that the nurse could not hear it with a stethoscope when doing her blood pressure, tried 3 times, then the nurse went and got a nurse practitioner, a real pro, and she failed twice to hear it, and by this time everyone is pretty stressed out ("Are you alive?" "I'm sittin' here looking at you, aren't I?") and then the nurse practitioner got a blood pressure. The renowned cardiologist during his exam of my wife admitted he lost her pulse numerous times and does not understand how she can even stand, his reading was a pulse pressure of 8 mm Hg. Her EKG they had to do multiple times (didn't say why) and was abnormal too, with low voltage QRS. Narrow pulse and low voltage => heart failure due to cardiomyopathy. I'm an analytical guy and have trended her BP and pulse pressures now for a couple years and knew this was coming, just based on the trend. The home BP machine now is useless. ERROR always. I also have insight when her pulse pressure reaches ZERO. I ignore that, or try to.

My wife still works! NO ONE knows how she keeps going. The Mayo Clinic earlier this year congratulated her for coming in on her two feet, not a gurney. I figure her body is adapting, but like a stretching rubber band I know the "SNAP" is likely coming, when her "rubber band" breaks. Waiting for that is not an easy thing. Her family has a history of just dropping dead, now I understand because at least a part of this is hereditary and her mom had it too. No one on the planet understands what the problem is, nor how to test for the cause and get a true diagnosis, which right now is Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy with Hyperadrenergic Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome with Mast Cell Activation. More labels than diagnosis. If they can prove her heart is failing she could maybe go on a transplant list, but the cause of the cardiac problem is not detectible on imaging, nor in blood tests (myocardial disarray, scaring, etc.).

Damn, she's only 46 and a sweet cutie.... sigh.
She accepts God's fate and the shortcomings of medicine to help her.
We are working on her bucket list...

Anyway, sorry for the long story, but this could be another contributor, stress silently eating away at me inside, burning "watts" unknowingly.

[edm_msu]

edm_msu wrote:
....and ask my doctor about Vitamin B12, Simistatin, free T3 & T4, and Zoloft.

I saw my doctor yesterday.

Vitamin B12 was not directly checked. She looked at 3 or 4 blood test results and said she was sure my vitamin B12 levels were good.

She did not know that Simvastatin caused sleep problems, but switched me to Lipitor anyways. She if happy if I take any statin. We briefly discussed Red Yeast Rice and she said that it can work. She recommended Lipitor because it is regulated and quality is assured. Red Yeast Rice is an herb and is not regulated so the quality is not assured. What do you think about that?

My TSH level is good. She said that automatically means that my T3 and T4 levels are good.

She switched me from Zoloft to Wellbutrin. I want to try something besides an SSRI.

My Vitamin D is 34, the range is 25-80. She said there is no benefit for me to ge tmy level up to 50 or 60.

My Ferritin is 45.8. She said it would not help to get it up to 50. She said it would be OK if I took a Ferrous sulfate supplement. I am going to take 325 mg per day.

She would not prescribe Miraplex or Requip for me. She said that I would know if I had a PLM problem.

I asked about my adrenal glands. She checked my Cortisol level. It is normal so my adrenal glands are properly working.

My doctor is probably not used to of all my questions. Most patients would not research and ask questions like I do.

My overall approach is to improve my sleep quality. I bought the “Sound Sleep, Sound Mind” book. I believe that if I can improve my sleep quality, my energy and mood will both improve.

[Jay Aitchsee]

Ed, that is very interesting. I would question why your doctor does not want to do the tests. Specifically, T3/T4 and B12.
I think you owe it to yourself to do a little research. I can tell you from my own personal experience that one can have normal TSH (a pituitary hormone) and abnormal T3/T4 (thyroid hormones). And my own B12 was low, but other B vitamins were normal. Also, many respected and reliable sources recommend higher D3 levels than what is considered normal.
While I would not be quick to take requip or miraplex (my research and my own trials show limited effectiveness), I thought one of your posts indicated a fairly high PLM count. There is disagreement among specialists whether or not PLM actually disturb sleep, but...? Again, see VVV's thread on ferritin levels. Maybe the ferrous sulfate will help.
I agree on the red rice therapy due to lack of reliable dosing and consistent quality.
As I said earlier, optimizing your vitamin and hormone levels may not improve your sleep, but it is relatively easy and inexpensive to do. It seems that as we age, our production and maintenance of some of these decline, as does our quality of sleep. Is there a relationship? I don't know. But, I'm sure otimization would not hurt.
I think you are absolutely correct in thinking that if you improve the quality of your sleep, your mood and energy will improve.
BTW, how is the straight cpap working for you?

Jay

[Jay Aitchsee]

Ed, for your review:

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Vitami ... fessional/

There is considerable discussion of the serum concentrations of 25(OH)D associated with deficiency (e.g., rickets), adequacy for bone health, and optimal overall health, and cut points have not been developed by a scientific consensus process. Based on its review of data of vitamin D needs, a committee of the Institute of Medicine concluded that persons are at risk of vitamin D deficiency at serum 25(OH)D concentrations <30 nmol/L (<12 ng/mL). Some are potentially at risk for inadequacy at levels ranging from 30–50 nmol/L (12–20 ng/mL). Practically all people are sufficient at levels ≥50 nmol/L (≥20 ng/mL); the committee stated that 50 nmol/L is the serum 25(OH)D level that covers the needs of 97.5% of the population. Serum concentrations >125 nmol/L (>50 ng/mL) are associated with potential adverse effects [1] (Table 1)

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-QuickFacts/

What happens if I don't get enough vitamin B12?
Vitamin B12 deficiency causes tiredness, weakness, constipation, loss of appetite, weight loss, and megaloblastic anemia. Nerve problems, such as numbness and tingling in the hands and feet, can also occur. Other symptoms of vitamin B12 deficiency include problems with balance, depression, confusion, dementia, poor memory, and soreness of the mouth or tongue. Vitamin B12 deficiency can damage the nervous system even in people who don't have anemia, so it is important to treat a deficiency as soon as possible.

Quest Labs

Please note: Although the reference range for Vitamin B12 is 200-1100 pg/mL, it has been reported that between 5 and 10% of patients with values between 200 and 400 pg/mL may experience neuropsychiatric and hematologic abnormalities due to occult B12 deficiency; less than 1% of pationents with values above 400 pg/mL will have symptoms.

http://www.mercola.com/article/hypothyr ... s_comp.htm

Diagnosis of Hypothyroidism
The big myth that persists regarding thyroid diagnosis is that an elevated TSH level is always required before a diagnosis of hypothyroidism can be made. Normally, the pituitary gland will secrete TSH in response to a low thyroid hormone level. Thus an elevated TSH level would typically suggest an underactive thyroid.
The traditional tests of thyroid function, the T4 (or total T4), T3-uptake, FTI, 'T7', total T3, and T3-by-RIA tests should be abandoned because they are unreliable as gauges of thyroid function. The most common traditional way to diagnose hypothyroidism is with a TSH that is elevated beyond the normal reference range. For most labs, this is about 4.0 to 4.5. This is thought to reflect the pituitary's sensing of inadequate thyroid hormone levels in the blood which would be consistent with hypothyroidism. There is no question that this will diagnose hypothyroidism, but it is far too insensitive a measure, and the vast majority of patients who have hypothyroidism will be missed.
The clinical symptoms of hypothyroidism are many. Perhaps the most common is fatigue. The skin can become dry, cold, rough and scaly. The hair becomes coarse, brittle and grows slowly or may fall out excessively. There is a sensitivity to cold with feelings of being chilly in rooms of normal temperature. It is difficult for a person to sweat and their perspiration may be decreased or even absent even during heavy exercise and hot weather. Constipation that is resistant to magnesium supplementation and other mild laxatives is also another common symptom. Difficulty in losing weight despite rigid adherence to a low grain diet seems to be a common finding especially in women. Depression and muscle weakness are other common symptoms....
The alternative to monitor thyroid disease is to use the Free T3 and Free T4 and TSH levels and interpret them with new reference ranges. If one measures the Free T3 and Free T4 levels the only accurate measure of the actual active thyroid hormone levels in the blood, as well as the TSH, one will find out how often a low normal TSH does NOT exclude hypothyroidism. It is relatively common to find the Free T4 and Free T3 hormone levels below normal when TSH is in its normal range, even in the low end of its normal range. When patients with these lab values are treated, one typically finds tremendous improvement in the patient, and a reduction of the classic hypothyroid symptoms.

Jay

[lorraineg57]

Today, I am nearly non-functional. I can barely type, but got 7 hours of sleep, tho punctuated a few times in the later stages. Why is the grog more severe? I have no idea. My blood tests are fine, 7 hours is probably good for my age. I can manipulate various things and while I can make things worse (like drinking alcohol just before sleep), I can't make it better. That suggests that the "control handles" I'm looking at, such as duration and quality of sleep, diet, exercise, pressures, AHI, etc... are not related to the cause, it's something else. What else? Who the heck knows. I think the docs need some tests for measuring various things that cause grog, rather than just throwing a stimulating drug at ya and calling it good.

I do know that for me grog is correlated sometimes with wind speed. Ha! LOL... Funny that, but it's probably because the wind kicks up allergens (pollen, mold spores, etc.) or maybe it's the (+) vs (-) ion charge thing However, today there's no wind, the flag out there hangs like a drape, fog this AM. So it's probably something else.

Your mention of pollen makes me wonder if you've ever had allergy testing?

snippet:
Typical seasonal allergy symptoms include runny nose, nasal congestion, post nasal drip, itchy nose, itchy eyes, watering, tearing of the eyes, and in some cases in those that have asthma, you can get the typical asthma symptoms which include shortness of breath, wheezing, cough. Those are the primary symptoms. Now people can additionally experience other types of systemic complaints such as fatigue, they don't sleep well, and on occasion they may not be able to think clearly

[edm_msu]

Jay Aitchsee wrote:
I would question why your doctor does not want to do the tests. Specifically, T3/T4 and B12.
I think you owe it to yourself to do a little research.

The reason is that she tought te levels were normal so they were not necessary. She, as expected, goes by the book. If a level is within the recomended range, it is good. I will continue to research sleep quality, including blood levels. For Vitamin D, it is easy and cheap enough to take a supplement so I'll do that.

Jay Aitchsee quoted:
Vitamin B12 deficiency causes tiredness, weakness, constipation, loss of appetite, weight loss, and megaloblastic anemia. Nerve problems, such as numbness and tingling in the hands and feet, can also occur.

Those symptoms do not apply to me.

Jay Aitchsee quoted:
The skin can become dry, cold, rough and scaly. The hair becomes coarse, brittle and grows slowly or may fall out excessively. There is a sensitivity to cold with feelings of being chilly in rooms of normal temperature. It is difficult for a person to sweat and their perspiration may be decreased or even absent even during heavy exercise and hot weather.

I am the opposite of all the symptoms listed above.

I'll keep on trying to improve my sleep.
Thanks,
Ed