Bad Machine?

[Clint KY]

I am new at this so I may not have all the correct terms. I am less than a month into my machine and am on my third one. I am using a System One BiPAP Auto Bi-Flex with a humidifier (which I have not filled with water yet). They all have shut down during the night. They don’t turn off, they just quit blowing. Sometimes as quickly as 3 hours and once in a while they will last 6 hours. The LCD screen still shows the pressure (13cm) but does not change as it normally does when it is working as it should (13cm then 9cm). Turning it off and back on does not change it. Only leaving it off for an extended time will make it work properly again. I thought it might be overheating but nowhere on the case does it feel hot when this happens. I got the Setup procedure to see if the Auto Flex was turned on and it is not. The Bi-Flex is.

Could I have gotten 3 bad machines in a row? Does anyone have any idea what I can check/change? I have an appointment with the Doctor but I don’t know what he is going to tell me, as I don’t believe that it is me.

Open to any and all comments.

[Pugsy]

Go into the clinical setup area and tell us what these settings are set to.

Mode..
IPAP..
EPAP..
ramp time..
Auto On..
Auto Off..

3 machines doing this same on/off thing...unlikely that 3 machines would have the same bug. Not impossible but very unlikely.

Can you post a copy of the detailed report from when this happened?
Look in my signature line for software information. SleepyHead is the easiest and quickest. This would let us see the actual pressure line and leak line.

[ughwhatname]

Not likely three machines in a row. Have each been plugged in to the same power outlet? Could that be a source of the trouble?

I am new at this so I may not have all the correct terms. I am less than a month into my machine and am on my third one. I am using a System One BiPAP Auto Bi-Flex with a humidifier (which I have not filled with water yet). They all have shut down during the night. They don’t turn off, they just quit blowing. Sometimes as quickly as 3 hours and once in a while they will last 6 hours. The LCD screen still shows the pressure (13”) but does not change as it normally does when it is working as it should (13” then 9”). Turning it off and back on does not change it. Only leaving it off for an extended time will make it work properly again. I thought it might be overheating but nowhere on the case does it feel hot when this happens. I got the Setup procedure to see if the Auto Flex was turned on and it is not. The Bi-Flex is.

Could I have gotten 3 bad machines in a row? Does anyone have any idea what I can check/change? I have an appointment with the Doctor but I don’t know what he is going to tell me, as I don’t believe that it is me.

Open to any and all comments.

[Clint KY]

Mode..
IPAP..
EPAP..
ramp time..
Auto On..
Auto Off..

Mode - BiLevel
IPAP - 13.0
EPAP - 9.0
Ramp Time - 0:30
Auto On - Off
Auto Off - Off

I will look into the software as I would like to be able to see the detailed data myself.
Another problem is that when the machine stops, it wakes me. So I have a high number of <4 Hour days which is an important number for the insurance people.

[greatunclebill]

insurance is unforgiving. you need to download the software now & put your card in the computer now to see what has happened. you said high number of <4 nights. literally, one more night could make the difference in you paying or insurance paying. some insurance companies do have machines picked up if you drop out of compliance. if you want your machine paid for, this should be your number one priority.

[Clint KY]

Not likely three machines in a row. Have each been plugged in to the same power outlet? Could that be a source of the trouble?

The first was plugged into an extension cord when I first set it up. I rearranged the clock and light and plugged it directly into the wall. Voltage is normal with no other symptoms of any problem, i.e. the clock losing power and blinking.

[Pugsy]

When you got the different machines that have had this problem did you also get new power supply...the brick and that cord that goes with the brick? Or have you used the same power supply with each machine?

Check the plug in right at the machine level...see if it is easy to dislodge.

Your settings don't point to anything that might explain the power off...If Auto Off was on then a big leak might account for it but it isn't so that wouldn't affect things.

Let's see your reports just to see if the pressures are doing the IPAP and EPAP change as they should.

My first suspect would be power supply issue. Loose connection or a bad power supply (brick and that cord) but if you got totally new power supply cords that sort of rules that out.
Sometimes DMEs will swap out machines but don't think to swap out power supply.

[Clint KY]

When you got the different machines that have had this problem did you also get new power supply...the brick and that cord that goes with the brick? Or have you used the same power supply with each machine?

Check the plug in right at the machine level...see if it is easy to dislodge.

Your settings don't point to anything that might explain the power off...If Auto Off was on then a big leak might account for it but it isn't so that wouldn't affect things.

Let's see your reports just to see if the pressures are doing the IPAP and EPAP change as they should.

My first suspect would be power supply issue. Loose connection or a bad power supply (brick and that cord) but if you got totally new power supply cords that sort of rules that out.
Sometimes DMEs will swap out machines but don't think to swap out power supply.

It is not the Power Supply as the machine does not turn off but just quits or greatly reduces blowing. The machine is still ON - showing 13cm on the screen (my IPAP). One of the first things I checked to see if the PS was hot or even warm - nope. It is a 60W, big enough for the machine and the Humidifier and I have never turned the Humidifier on.

[Pugsy]

Try reducing Ramp time to 0:00...this effectively turns ramp off.

Having 3 machines all do this very same thing......highly unusual.
When highly unusual things happen then all variables have to be considered and eliminated.
Did they swap out the power supply? I know you don't think that is the issue and maybe it isn't but has it been totally eliminated?
Do you have an alternate electric plug outlet that you could use to eliminate that possible variable?

I have had my PR S1 BiPap a year now...never had a problem.
I have used 3 other PR S1 Bipaps (testing machines that are going to someone else) and never a problem.

Let's see the reports...to see if the pressure lines are actually changing like they are supposed to change in bilevel mode.
If you are seeing 13 on the screen with no change..and the report confirms it is stuck at 13 and then no air blowing.....
Being lit up showing 13 with zero air blowing ...just doesn't make any sense and yes, points to a bad machine but to have the same thing happen with 3 machines...really odd.

Until a new power supply has been eliminated..that is still my first suspect.

[greatunclebill]

the power supply is a transformer that steps the voltage down to 12 volts. it is entirely possible that with use the voltage out of the transformer or brick is dropping below 12 so that there is enough power to power the display that you see but not enough to keep the blower running. yes, if you haven't changed the power supply it could in fact be the whole problem. if you're on your third machine and the same power supply, its either the house wiring, the wall plug, the way it is connected or the power supply.

[Conrad]

If he has the humidifier connected, and it's set to something other than zero, and there is no water in it, will the machine behave in this manner?

[2 B Sleeping Soundly]

If he has the humidifier connected, and it's set to something other than zero, and there is no water in it, will the machine behave in this manner?

I was just wondering the same thing! Is it possible that having the humidifier connected to the machine/blower but not being used could be an issue? Especially if the humidifier is turned on and would then heat up even if no water was in it. Would this shut off the machine due to the humidifier possibly overheating? If that is not the problem then I would think like some of the other posters that the power supply (if it was not swapped out with each new machine) could be the issue.

Good luck! Let us know what you find out.

John

[archangle]

First warning, don't ever move the machine if there's water in the tank. If there's water in the tank, be sure to take the tank out before moving the machine.

When it's screwed up, turn the humidifier knob and see if the humidifier numbers change. Does it turn off if you push the power button?

Does anything happen differently if you unplug the power cord from the machine, or unplug from the wall, wait a minute, then plug back in?

Are you 100% sure the air has stopped? Many people feel like they're breathing into a hurricane to start, but can't feel the pressure after a while.

That also sounds like what it would do if you had a really bad leak, especially the part about the pressure on the display not changing.

Take the mask off, stick the end of the hose in your mouth, and breathe in and out through it, and see if the display changes from the high to the low pressure number. (Just a few breaths to try it out.) See if you feel pressure.

When it stops blowing, try to feel the air coming out the exhaust vent, then disconnect the hose from the mask, feel for air flow. Then unplug the hose from the machine end and see if air is blowing. Put the hose back on, plug up then end, then listen for leaks.

Listen to the sound level when it's working normally. Compare when it's broke.

Be sure there's not something mechanically blocking the air inlet on the back, for instance, the tablecloth getting sucked up over the air inlet. Take out the filter, and inspect the inside of the filter housing. The next time it's stopped, completely remove the filter for a few minutes to see if that changes anything.

Be sure the humidifier door is not coming open.

If you're not using the humidifier, remove the humidifier entirely and try it that way. The whole humidifier, not just the water tank. Take the water tank out first to avoid spilling water. There's a latch on the bottom of the humidifier and the whole thing will come off. Then hook the hose to the blower unit and sit the humidifier aside.

Also be sure you don't have a big leak in the hose. Visually inspect it. Plug one end with your thumb, blow in the other and see if you can find a leak.

It is not the Power Supply as the machine does not turn off but just quits or greatly reduces blowing. The machine is still ON - showing 13cm on the screen (my IPAP). One of the first things I checked to see if the PS was hot or even warm - nope. It is a 60W, big enough for the machine and the Humidifier and I have never turned the Humidifier on.

You absolutely MUST swap power supply, cords, and machine at the same time to test this. If the power supply is putting out some sort of glitch, it might "confuse" the computer in the blower and make it stop, even after the power comes back.

You might try a computer UPS if you can get hold of one to reduce the possibility of power line glitches. Check your AC voltage if you're geek enough to do that.

Also, run a good extension cord to another outlet or even another room and plug in there, just for grins.

the power supply is a transformer that steps the voltage down to 12 volts. it is entirely possible that with use the voltage out of the transformer or brick is dropping below 12 so that there is enough power to power the display that you see but not enough to keep the blower running. yes, if you haven't changed the power supply it could in fact be the whole problem. if you're on your third machine and the same power supply, its either the house wiring, the wall plug, the way it is connected or the power supply.

The power supply is a switching power supply, it's much more than a transformer.

However, I agree that the whole power supply, machine, and power cord needs to be replaced when the machine is replaced.

If he has the humidifier connected, and it's set to something other than zero, and there is no water in it, will the machine behave in this manner?

It shouldn't. The heater may shut off, but the blower should keep going. I and many others have run our humidifier dry and the blower keeps going.

[Clint KY]

I just got back from swapping the power supply. I will see if it runs through the night.

INFO:
I have run the machine with and without the humidifier connected with no difference.
I have never put water in the humidifier.
When the humidifier is attached, I keep the indicator on 0.
I have detached the hose from the mask when it fails and the amount of air coming out of the hose is minimal.

I will report back in the morning as to if the new PS fixed the problem.

Thanks for all the input.

[Clint KY]

Update: The machine ran through the night - BUT - when I awoke it seemed like it was barely outputting any air.
I did a search and found a place to order a CPAP Pressure Tester like they used to check the first two machines I brought back. I figure $30 is not too much to pay to tell me whether it is me or the machine. I will let you know what I find out.