stuffy nose with c-pap -- I've got an idea

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:28 pm

I posted a thread a while back, some time late last summer, about how I was having trouble using my cpap, since my nose got stuffy at night. My nose doesn't get stuffy in the sinus cavity area, but in the nostril region. Throughout the winter, I was able to use the c-pap very well, but without the humidifier on. The cold air was much better for my nose.

Now its warmer, and I'm having a hard time again with the stuffy nose. I could never get the heated humidifier adjusted right last summer - it was always too warm, and didn't really help. It wasn't until the cold winter air filled the room that I could just leave that humidifier off and sleep through the night with a clear nose.

So here's my idea: I'm going to put some ice made from distilled water (no water) in the humidifier's water chamber, in hopes that the air will be a little cooler flowing over the ice, and won't create my dreaded stuffy nose - which always causes me to take my mask off in my sleep.

Any thoughts? Has anyone tried this?

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): humidifier, CPAP

linda b · Post by **linda b** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:32 pm

Elizabeth, now I feel totally confused. I haven't started my Apap with heated humidifier yet (it's coming), but based on what I've been reading on this forum, I thought HEATED air was supposed to help keep nasal passages open. Your experience seems to be the opposite!

I've got the same problem -- one side closes down within a few hours of going to bed, but there doesn't seem to be anywhere near enough 'gunk' to cause the closing. This has been going on for a long time. Have tried several different prescription sprays/squirts, but nothing seems to help. I certainly hope the heated humidifier doesn't make it worse.

chdurie2 · Post by **chdurie2** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:43 pm

how about turning the humidifier all the way down? btw, does anyone know what the heat does for an always- stuffed up nose? i've been thinking about this re: ordering an aussie hose. i'm not sure if the warmth of the humidifier loosens things up or dries them out and makes them cruddy and more blocked. for sure, i would think the heat would be drying but is it like a sauna(crud loosener) or a crud-blocker?

linda, don't get scared.

i'm gonna turn the thing all the way down tonite and see if it helps.

caroline

Gidgie · Post by **Gidgie** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:53 pm

Hey, you two! Tonight it's humidifiers..........heating the water makes the air pick up more of it when it blows over it.........warmer water.......more humidity in the air. And I like it........much better than sore sinuses....plus I use a steroid spray (beclometh). If I didn't, I'd be as dry as your desert in the morning......BTW.....humidifier set at 4. When it gets really hot & dry, as often happens in our summers, I may rethink that......

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:59 am

A challenge

How to get cool air that also has moisture in it

The only real reason there is a heater in any humidifier is to get the air to pick up more water than it will without heat allowing for the same water surface area the air flows over.

If we were to, hypothetically, put ice in a orb that had an in tube & out tube and we put this orb right onto the mask (I know this is in no way doable but bear with me ) the efect would be to do some cooling alright but also the drop in temperature would cause significant precipitation of the moisture in the air (called cpap rainout ). Putting the ice at the machine end would fare no better.

The heated tube does seem like your best bet

Good luck

DSM

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:29 am

Well, as I stated, I tried the humidifier on all different levels, and it never helped. And, yes, the heated humidity DID have an opposite effect on me.

jcobb607 · Post by **jcobb607** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:00 am

I understand what Elizabeth is saying. Typically I am more stopped up and congested in the summer with the humidity than in the winter with the cold. A long time ago I worked at an ice cream shop and whenever I would stop up, I would walk into the cooler and stay for a few minutes until my sinuses cleared up.

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:33 am

jcobb607 wrote:I understand what Elizabeth is saying. Typically I am more stopped up and congested in the summer with the humidity than in the winter with the cold. A long time ago I worked at an ice cream shop and whenever I would stop up, I would walk into the cooler and stay for a few minutes until my sinuses cleared up.

My guess is, that in regard to what you and Elisabeth are experiencing, the issue is temperature and not humidity. It's likely that the very cold air is shrinking the tissues in your nasal passages and allowing you to breathe better.

As far as setting up a cpap to blow ice cold air, it might work better to provide some sort of cold air supply (maybe from the outside) to the intake on the machine than it would to try to accomplish this by using some sort of ice passover set-up.

Some folks like to sleep with the bedroom window cracked open... even in the vey cold winter... probably for this very reason.

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:35 am

Hi Elizabeth,

Give it a shot. I'm kinda wondering how the air could be cooled enough to be useful for a long enough time. Also, you'll have to keep the air cool until it reaches your face, so you'll need one of the insulated hose covers. I'm assuming you really want the air no warmer than about 60 degrees.

All sorts of Rube Goldberg contraptions come to mind how one could do this. Filling the humidifier chamber with crushed ice might be a good way to start, although if the ice cools the air very much then the ice will melt quickly and in a few minutes you'll end up with just icewater in your humidifier chamber. Not sure you'll get much cooling with just ice water in the chamber though, so this is the part where all sorts of Rube Goldberg ideas come to mind, such as immersing the humidifier chamber in an ice cooler with hoses and duck tape all around it.

Good luck. Not sure this helps much though.

Regards,
Bill

Bundles · Post by **Bundles** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:44 am

I had posted a couple of times of the same issue and thought that I was the only one experiencing it - my nose is stuffed up 24 hours a day, 365 days a year - the doc has had me try every allergy pill and sinus spray known to man and none have any effect. I have also found that the heated humidifier makes it worse . I have used it set on 1, set on 5, set on 9 and everywhere in between - no setting appears to have any different effect. I have since stopped using the heated humidifier and I can say that nothing much is different. I've been to a few different docs on the stuffed nose issue and every last one of them keeps prescribing allergy meds and sending me to an allergist that can't find its an allergic reaction. I have the issue 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year- with cpap treatment that's loads of fun.

ThStoddart · Post by **ThStoddart** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:58 am

wading thru the muck! wrote:
jcobb607 wrote:I understand what Elizabeth is saying. Typically I am more stopped up and congested in the summer with the humidity than in the winter with the cold. A long time ago I worked at an ice cream shop and whenever I would stop up, I would walk into the cooler and stay for a few minutes until my sinuses cleared up.
My guess is, that in regard to what you and Elisabeth are experiencing, the issue is temperature and not humidity. It's likely that the very cold air is shrinking the tissues in your nasal passages and allowing you to breathe better..

_________________

I've battled allergies since childhood and believe that waking thru the muck's interpretation is correct. The congestion allergy sufferers experience is caused by both the discharge of mucus AND swelling of the nasal membranes. In fact, nasal steroids like Flonase work by addressing the swelling while anti-histamines like Claritin and Allegra work by attacking the production of the gunk.

I started nasal irrigation a few months ago and have had great success with it. I generally prefer warm water (never hot!) because it feels better and I think it does a better job of loosening the gunk. However, it is recommended that when you're really stuffed up to use cool or cold water to alleve swollen nasal passages. Sounded counter-intuitive to me at first, but my own doctor confirmed it.

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP[/quote]

NoSlak · Post by **NoSlak** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:39 am

I have never seen anyone with worse allergies than me except for one merson, my dad.
What I have been doing the last few nights, since we have had more rain here where I live than any other year in weather history and it just now stopped and allergies are EVERYWHERE! is I put a few drops of eucalytus oil into the resevoir before I turn it on and then put the mask on and sayonara baby !!!!!!!

rdjw · Post by **rdjw** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:54 am

I'd have said warm, wet air is worse for me, too, except that I have been waking up very stuffy and finding that the heater has gone off (See "heater going off" thread) and the water is cool and therefore relatively dry. I've got a sore in one nostril that I can't clear up and who the heck knows what is really going on. I sure don't.

There are too many variables, and I can only tweak one per night. It may take months to get things right. Moan, moan, moan. Woe is me.

Rookie

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:46 am

wading thru the muck - What I'm describing IS an ice passover type of system.

I'm going to get icetrays today, and hope that it helps. If I had stuffy sinuses all the time, I'd try just putting an icepack on my nose for a few minutes, like you would if you got hit in the face with something. Maybe the cold will take the swelling down.

I've used all kinds of nasal sprays and irrigation, and nothing really addresses the nose swelling except Affrin, but that's addictive and I refuse to use it more than 2 nights in a row with about a week off in between.

I'll wake up during the night and be able to put my mask back on, since my nose isn't swollen any more, so I'm not worried about the ice melting.

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:08 am

Elizabeth wrote:wading thru the muck - What I'm describing IS an ice passover type of system.

I understand that, I suggested that trying to provide a cool air supply for the intake of you cpap may give you better results. Possibly something like rigging up a flex dry vent to supply outside air to the cpap (as long as the outise air temp is cool)

I think you are on the right track.

Good luck!

Mask

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