I had absolutely no idea how much this would cost.

[FishOil]

I got my cpap last August 2011 so I've been using it for a year now.

For the first 6 months, I would get a bill from my provider (Your Home Medical) and it was like 500 dollars. I thought that wasn't too bad and set up a payment plan and start sending checks of 50-100 dollars every month.

Then around February/March of this year, I started getting bills from a company named CareCentrix. They would range from $30-500. I figured it was for my cpap machine but had no idea why. The bills started coming every few days and they all said they were past due bills. Then I started getting bills from a Debt Collection Agency called NCO Financial Systems.

I called CareCentrix to ask what the hell is going on and they said Your Home Medical passed the payments to CareCentrix in October 2011, and that since I haven't been paying them, they've been getting sent to Collection. So I set up a payment plan with CareCentrix of 46 dollars a month. Then I called the NCO and ended up having to set up a payment plan of 200 a month.

But I can never get a straight answer on exactly how much I owe, and the bills just keep coming and coming every few days. I went to the website and added up all the bills and it comes out to $5,132 SO FAR. I had no idea this would cost that much or I wouldn't have done it. I'm drowning in debt and I completely regret ever getting cpap now. It's helped a little but it is NOT worth five thousand dollars.

I'm so overwhelmed right now, I can't believe I got myself into this. I wish I would have known.

[Goofproof]

You need to find out who's running your life for you, and kick their As_! It sounds like they fell asleep at the wheel, and hit the trees. Jim

[FishOil]

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. I can't just say "screw all these bills"

[Diablode]

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. I can't just say "screw all these bills"

Your machine costs less than $1000 to buy outright...You set up a payment plan for something you don't even know what your paying for? You need to find out what exactly you're paying for because it sounds like someone is trying to screw you...

[Wonderbeastlett]

You're not the only one in the same boat. I don't have insurance and I knew something was wrong with me. My husband is just now finishing school and we have hardly any money coming in from my job. I knew I needed to see a doctor but I was faced with the question,"Do I go to the doctor and have large bills or do I stay sick and not get any better?" When it comes down to it I'd rather be alive than dead. My sleep center wouldn't even titrate me until I agreed to a set payment plan each month! (which is ridiculous for non insured patients who barely have doctors visits to begin with because of money!) Altogether we owe around $1500 which is small compared to $5,000 but not so small to us. I had to buy a travel size "brick" for my treatment because we couldn't afford anything more out of pocket. I really would love to have a data capable machine but cant afford it right now.

I guess to me debt comes and goes but you only have one life. I would rather be heathy and living than not. I don't know about where you live but here you can file for something called Financial hardship. You can fill out papers to see if the hospital can cover some or all of your bills. You do have to jump through some hoops with the paperwork but it could be really helpful. There are some criteria to apply which is why we couldn't apply.
Just send them what you can afford and keep your head up. We've all been there.

[FishOil]

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. I can't just say "screw all these bills"

Your machine costs less than $1000 to buy outright...You set up a payment plan for something you don't even know what your paying for? You need to find out what exactly you're paying for because it sounds like someone is trying to screw you...

I'm paying for the rental basically. It's like 200+ dollars a month for all the equipment. Nobody ever told me exactly how much it would cost when it started. I didn't know it would be THAT much. I guess it's my fault for not asking, I just figured Insurance would handle it. I'm young and don't know anything about insurance or medical things.

[-tim]

The standard deal is you rent for 13 months or so and then the machine is yours. Remember medical insurance isn't insurance, its just a buying club and like any buying club they negotiate rates. You can be your own one person medical buying club if you need to. If they won't cooperate, buy a machine and tell them to take their machine back. You may already own everything but the main machine.

[Spektor]

You need to consult with a lawyer and advise them you may have a fair debt collection practices claim, and possibly a consumer fraud claim.

It's unclear whether you are being billed what you should be billed, and it's not easily possible to figure it out here. You need someone looking at and sorting out those bills.

Possibly someone from your state's department of insurance or professional regulation could advise, or maybe even better call your local alderman or whatnot. They usually have staff people who can help advise on problems like this.

If you have been suckered into a bad lease, terminate it immediately and buy your cpap supplies over the net or craigslist etc. -- or a diffferent DME. But stop adding onto the debt now before it gets worse. Definitely have your existing bills looked at -- you may have been ripped off.

[FishOil]

You need to consult with a lawyer and advise them you may have a fair debt collection practices claim, and possibly a consumer fraud claim.

It's unclear whether you are being billed what you should be billed, and it's not easily possible to figure it out here. You need someone looking at and sorting out those bills.

Possibly someone from your state's department of insurance or professional regulation could advise, or maybe even better call your local alderman or whatnot. They usually have staff people who can help advise on problems like this.

If you have been suckered into a bad lease, terminate it immediately and buy your cpap supplies over the net or craigslist etc. -- or a diffferent DME. But stop adding onto the debt now before it gets worse. Definitely have your existing bills looked at -- you may have been ripped off.

I just went to the website and looked carefully at all the bills. It's not 5k like I originally thought, it's more like 3k.

However, I don't think I'm being ripped off. Every bill specifically states what was charged.

Every month on the 5th they charge me 135.12 for the 02 Concentrator (which I no longer use as of last month), 175.08 for the Bipap machine, and 34.07 for the humidifier. So after a year of being charged like that, it adds up to like 3k. I wish I knew from the start, I would have just bought my own machine.

And not only that, I think I have another 2 years of renting since my contract says 36 months to own.

[The Sheikh]

Let's see...

Based upon the $/month you posted, you will pay out a total of $6,300 for the O2 machine, $4860 for the BiPap and $1200 for the humidifier when you're done after 36 months. ($12,350 grand total)

Sounds like a royal scam to me.

Get on the telephone tomorrow and take no prisoners.


As a sidenote... it amazes me how much money these XPAP manufacturers charge for their products - and get away with it. For example, a ResMed Adapt lists out for over $3.5K, retails for about $2.5K, but if priced like any standard appliance made in China, should cost about $400 at most. I don't understand why some smart bizman has not already taken over the market. Medical equipment and supply pricing (and leasing) is a bad joke. It's like paying $50 for an aspirin in a hospital. It breaks my heart that people who really NEED this equipment to save their lives - but have modest resources, have to suffer.... sigh.

Tom

[FishOil]

Let's see...

Based upon the $/month you posted, you will pay out a total of $6,300 for the O2 machine, $4860 for the BiPap and $1200 for the humidifier when you're done after 36 months. ($12,350 grand total)

Sounds like a royal scam to me.

Get on the telephone tomorrow and take no prisoners.

Tom

Who do I call? What do I say?

[retrodave15]

Who is your insurance provider?

I have United through my employer. Each month I get a statement of the claims on what has been processed; these statements are easy to match up with bills and show the billed amount, the allowed amount, what they paid, and what I owe. I match them up, cross off the amount they try to bill, pay what United says I owe and write "Contacted Payment." I enclose a copy of my statement and my check. I have yet to very many problems with this system. If I do get someone trying to get more money than United states I sic United on them. I make United work for that monthly fee they get each month.

With a wife that has some serious chronic conditions, I keep meticulous medical records. Regarding NCO, they are blood suckers, known for going after phantom debt. What every you do, do not pay the collection agency, find out who the original debt belongs to and work with them. I have found that everything is negotiable. Pay the original debt holder, if possible try to work out a lower amount, I have done this successfully since some money is better that no money, and if you pay NCO they will take a 20% cut. WHen the debt has been paid, make sure you get them to remove it from your credit record as well.

[lliann]

You need to consult with a lawyer and advise them you may have a fair debt collection practices claim, and possibly a consumer fraud claim.

It's unclear whether you are being billed what you should be billed, and it's not easily possible to figure it out here. You need someone looking at and sorting out those bills.

Possibly someone from your state's department of insurance or professional regulation could advise, or maybe even better call your local alderman or whatnot. They usually have staff people who can help advise on problems like this.

If you have been suckered into a bad lease, terminate it immediately and buy your cpap supplies over the net or craigslist etc. -- or a diffferent DME. But stop adding onto the debt now before it gets worse. Definitely have your existing bills looked at -- you may have been ripped off.

I just went to the website and looked carefully at all the bills. It's not 5k like I originally thought, it's more like 3k.

However, I don't think I'm being ripped off. Every bill specifically states what was charged.

Every month on the 5th they charge me 135.12 for the 02 Concentrator (which I no longer use as of last month), 175.08 for the Bipap machine, and 34.07 for the humidifier. So after a year of being charged like that, it adds up to like 3k. I wish I knew from the start, I would have just bought my own machine.

And not only that, I think I have another 2 years of renting since my contract says 36 months to own.

I agree with Spektor.

Where does your insurance come from? Employer? Call HR and tell them about this situation.

Otherwise, I would request a copy of the original contract (sleep provider?) Then talk with your sleep doctor and then your insurance. Bang Bang Bang. You are being charged more than the market bears on these products. Even if if not a an illegal scam, its still questional billing and business practices. I would start to push back. (not with the collectors. their only interest is being paid) I would let anyone you talk to know that you are investigating the contract, the billing, the pricing.

Lastly, was this all clearly explained to you, including what a final cost would be? Thats where looking at the contract comes in.

Leasing contracts always cost more than buying outright but 3 times more? I would question if not the legality, than the fair business practice definition.

Really Lastly. 5 dollar aspirins from a hospital. Hospitals can't charge more than a government/insurance department has agreed to on a pricing schedule. What is factored into that price are all kind of overhead, facility, etc etc charges.(its a formula)

Hospitals can bill it but they never get paid it. Either it gets reduced to an "allowable amt" or it gets paid at a contractual percentage or in many cases, if it's ER, they get paid a flat rate no matter what they charge. I do one line of insurance that no matter how large the er bill (include several ct scans, an unscheduled procedure etc etc- thousands of dollars...and per contract, we can only receive under $600 flat rate. And only If we dot our i's and cross our t's.

[Madalot]

Wow -- I am flabbergasted at this. A 36-month rental? At those rates? Wow. I know free commerce and all that crap, but this sounds really borderline illegal, but definitely WRONG WRONG WRONG.

I would do whatever necessary to get this away from NCO and back to the DME level. Something is amiss anyway if you were paying the DME the agreed upon amount and they still turned it over to collections.

If it were me, I would contact the DME and tell them that you WILL pay, but ask them to settle it for an amount you are comfortable with. If they agree to it, DEMAND they remove your account from NCO and get it in WRITING.

If you are forced to work with NCO, contact them (in writing) and tell them you were misinformed about the debt in the beginning and ask if they would be willing to SETTLE. A lot of times, collection agencies have the authority to settle debts on behalf the original creditor, sometimes for significantly less than the original debt.

Whatever you do, do NOT accept anything verbally from anyone. It HAS to be in writing to protect yourself.

NCO is one of the "big dogs" in the collections industry and being turned over to them is anything BUT fun. Trying to work with them would be my last choice. If you have to, try to famarilize yourself with the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act. Don't let NCO break any of the laws that are designed to protect YOU.

[Spektor]

No, No, No! Do NOT tell them you will pay a DIME! Otherwise you will be on record acknowledging the legality of the debt and thus can be held responsible for it.

Get on the phone with a pro and call your local elected representative's office and/or a lawyer. Doing this on your own is no longer a wise idea.

A 36 month lease cost on something like this may be so unconscionable that the contract itself could be considered invalid.

It sounds like a high class version of those TV scams where a company will send someone a computer and printer worth $300, but only if they pay lease payments three or more times that cost. A scam nevertheless.

Call a lawyer.