Training the mouth to stay closed without tape or chinstrap?

[kaiasgram]

Last night I started toying with the idea of going without my chinstrap as an experiment. I've been trying to minimize how much headgear I have on because of scalp allergy/irritation from straps. I went to bed with chinstrap close at hand and thought, "I'll think about this for a few minutes before I decide for sure..." but before I could do much thinking I fell asleep. Five and a half hours later (this morning) I woke up not feeling well with my mouth open and dry and figured my experiment was a bust. I expected to see an off-the-chart leak line and/or lots of respiratory events. But when I looked at SleepyHead I was shocked to find I had an AHI of zero and my leak numbers were better than usual -- 95%=2.4, max=3.6. (The not feeling well part has been a constant even with the chinstrap so it apparently had nothing to do with my experiment.)

This was of course just one night, but now I want to see if I can really train my mouth to reliably stay closed so I can be liberated from the chinstrap. (I also want to avoid taping since my skin is so reactive to stuff.) So what I'd like is more tips for training the mouth to stay closed during sleep. Someone had posted about putting the tongue on the roof of the mouth and then sucking in air to create a vacuum (sorry I can't remember who, but thank you for that suggestion). I did that last night when I went to bed. I sleep on my back so I also placed a small toss pillow on my chest underneath my chin for support -- fortunately I don't move around much when I sleep.

Any other suggestions for training your mouth to stay closed while you sleep? Thanks!

[brucifer]

I started not using my chin strap a couple of weeks ago, and everything is working out just fine. I begin my night lying on my back and keeping my mouth closed, and when I doze off to sleep, my mouth remains closed the rest of the night.

There was nothing special that I did. I just made a concerted effort to keep my mouth shut.

[chunkyfrog]

I forgot to tape the other night; woke up with my mouth LESS dry than usual-and an acceptable leak rate!
Maybe my mouth is finally learning!

[kaiasgram]

I forgot to tape the other night; woke up with my mouth LESS dry than usual-and an acceptable leak rate!
Maybe my mouth is finally learning!

Bruce and Froggie, this is interesting -- maybe taping and strapping has actually been working against us. Maybe our mouths don't like being taped and strapped shut (after all, that's not compatible with basic survival/breathing instincts) so we've been unconsciously fighting the contraptions in our sleep and ending up with more mouth openings than we otherwise would have had. I've nearly given myself TMJ trying to conquer mouth leaks, cinching my chinstrap tighter and tighter over time.

I really didn't think my experiment would work because I sleep on a bed wedge which props me up slightly, so gravity is always inviting my chin to fall open. Wow, it would be so cool to be able to ditch the tape and straps and sleep free -- well, free-er at least.

[Tino2You]

I've been using the same approach to "learning to keep my mouth shut" as learning to resist the urge for nicotine. A little at a time. Instead of a patch, I keep adjusting my chin strap to allow less compression. I can now slid a finger beneath my chin and strap. Occasionally my numbers spike a little during the night, but I am making progress. "little steps, grasshopper"!

-tino

[rosacer]

Kaiasgram

Congratulations! That's a wonderful beginning.

Before my problem with the tooth arrives I was able to train myself to keep the mouth closed. I put the tongue in the roof of the mouth and yes me too I suck the air and saliva. Before falling asleep I thought I needed to keep the tongue there all the night. That works after a couple of tries.

On the day time I tried to keep the tongue at the same place as while asleep. Now it is normal for me to have the tongue all the time closed to the roof of the mouth instead of having it in the back of the mouth and the jaws almost hanging . I only move the tongue from the roof of the mouth to speak

Because of the FFM I used for 6 weeks I lost the ability to keep the mouth closed and the tongue touching the roof of the mouth, I still am able to keep it closed some days if I think at that.

It is possible to train yourself to keep the mouth closed, it is good you are trying it.

[xenablue]

kaiasgram - I tried several times - one night at a time - to give up the chinstrap, but it was never successful. Then after almost 2 years decided to really go "cold turkey" and just go without and see how it went.

For the first 4 or so nights, I opened my yap at least once a night - (desert mouth syndrome), but then every night after that it was less and less. That was about 3 months ago now and I've woken to desert mouth just a handful of times, if that.

I really can't remember the last time I woke up knowing I had precious CPAP air going up my nose and straight out my mouth - weeks for sure.

For me it was more that I trained my brain that the chinstrap was no longer a 'crutch' to support my lower jaw - I tossed the 'nuk' in the trash LOL

Cheers,
xena

[JohnO]

Someone had posted about putting the tongue on the roof of the mouth and then sucking in air to create a vacuum (sorry I can't remember who, but thank you for that suggestion).

Years ago, in a quest to quiet my snoring (long before I was tested for sleep apnea) I learned this behavior. It did not work to cure me of snoring, but I do seem able to keep my mouth shut at night. I also sleep with a pillow hugged to my chest right up under my chin. That seems to re-inforce the idea too.

[kaiasgram]

Oh, this is so encouraging, thanks everyone !

Xena, I laughed at your reference to the 'nuk' !

[Hawthorne]

I used to tape but then began placing my tongue on the roof of my mouth just above my top teeth. I keep my tongue there during the day as well, just as Rosie does.

I have no trouble with mouth breathing or dry mouth at all now. I do swish some "Biotene" in my mouth at bedtime and start out with a nice moist mouth. I make sure my nose is clear by spraying a saline spray (2 times each nostril) about an hour before bed. It all seems to work well and doesn't take any time at all.

[2kittymom]

I'm still in that training too. Just wondering, if you open your mouth, does the graph show a large air leak? I do get a few spikes of those.

[rosacer]

@ 2Kittymon, yes those spikes are when you open the mouth. You maybe do that for a really short laps of time that's why it is only like a spike and then your brain notices your mouth is opens and voila it closes the trap Mine closes the trap so fast that some times I woke up with the impact

Don't give up there is a lot of people in the forum that had succeeded to train themselves to keep the mouth closed. Continue telling to yourself before falling asleep that you need to keep the mouth closed.


@ Hawthorne

Could you please tell me which saline solution do you use? Is it Salinex? I have been using the netipot (maybe 3 times in 15 days ) but I'm a bit lazy for those things so I find it takes too much time to do that

I put Rhinaris before masking but it works more or less.

thanks

[SleepingUgly]

I wonder if instead of training their mouth to stay closed, folks have trained themselves to sleep through mouth openings?

[2kittymom]

Good point!

[Pugsy]

Well, I am pretty sure that I occasionally do open my mouth when I sleep. It doesn't wake me up, I don't see huge prolonged leaks and I don't really care if I open my mouth occasionally. Last night I figure maybe 8 minutes of a few spikes to 28 L/min and that was the worst it ever got. 8 minutes of a minute or 2 here and there out of a little over 8 hours on the machine. It's been over 10 days since I washed the nasal pillows...I wouldn't be surprised if some of my leaks weren't related to the nasal pillow itself.

Some nights minimal to none leaks, some nights nothing over 15 L/min...some nights I push the 24 L/min line a little close but never for prolonged periods of time.
Since it doesn't disturb my sleep and I feel quite well rested considering my other issues unrelated to OSA along with often an AHI less than 1.0...I just don't care if the leak line is a bit ugly.
I have taped my mouth and I have used a chin strap and I just don't want to do it again.
Back when I did the leak line wasn't a perfect 0.0 anyway. Chin straps slipped and woke me up. Tape sometimes gets loose due to drool or whatever and woke me up. I woke up more using the tape or chin straps than I do now.
My goal has always been good solid uninterrupted sleep number one...if the AHI is low...minimal large leaks that are short lived...I am quite content.