Questions about Oxygen Bleed into my CPAP

[RomeinDNVR]

Hey everyone, been a while since I have been on the forum.

I have been on CPAP since October of 2011 and I have been able to adapt to it very well. When I had my sleep study even with CPAP my O2 sats were dropping into the low 80s and I had a lot of central apneas. To counteract that they started an O2 bleed of 2LPM and my O2 sats went back up into the 90s and my centrals dropped dramatically. My doctor explained to me that since I have had Sleep Apnea my entire life and waited until I was 31 to have it treated that my nervous system needed to be retrained to make me breath consistently while I sleep. So I have had an O2 concentrator in my house since October (I hate it, it is big and loud) and my stats look great in sleepyhead. My doctor had me take home a O2 sensor to wear on my finger while I sleep. He had me spend one night with the O2 bleed going and one night with it shut off. Unfortunately without the O2 my stats were HORRIBLE and my O2 dropped down to 78 while I was sleeping.

My main question is, is there any other device I could use in place of the oxygen concentrator? My doctor says no but he is just a general practitioner and while I love the guy I am not sure if he is up on all of the different technologies out there.

My second question is, are there any long term effects of being on oxygen every single night?

I just really hate the idea of having to be on oxygen for the rest of my life especially since I am only 31 years old.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rome

[greatunclebill]

the long term effect of o2 use is likely longer life. you really don't have a choice. they do make smaller and quieter o2 generators. if your dme doesn't have one it may be time for a dme change. you may be able to use actual o2 tanks which would not make noise, but that would bring a whole new set of logistical problems and insurance may not cover it. call a local gases distributor to see what is involved. if you can't find one, call the hospital medical supply and ask them where their o2 tanks come from.

[-tim]

You can get a longer O2 hose. You can get a much longer hose. If the flow is going in one end, its going out the other so you can move the O2 generator to another room.

You sound too young, but medicare has some O2 programs where they bring out tanks or refill them or something. My mother gets hers refilled about once a month I think.

Non liquid O2 tanks are the quietest but they need changed every few days or so. The Liquid O2 tanks last much longer and they might hiss but are still much quieter than your O2 generator. There are quieters models but the price tends to skyrocket but their power consumption goes down. (oh, ask your power company about life support discounts, they may have them).

[retrodave15]

I understand your issue here. My wife who is on CPAP as well with an oxygen concentrator. As to to if you need it for the rest of your life - I would consult with a pulmonologist and or a cardiologist to see if there is something else going on here. My wife's need stems from a birth defect they found a 30 and they fixed it the best they could. She had a large hole between the atrium's and over the years caused some damage to her heart, now she suffers from CHF and Pulmonary hypertension which cause the 02 sats to drop, especially at night. She is working on some other issues, i.e. weight loss, that will take some of the strain of the heart and lungs and might help these issues.

As for the O2 supply, you have two options - A concentrator, or a liquid O2 system.

Concentrators are easy to maintain, and produce the oxygen from room air, but they are noisy and use a lot of electricity. Ours raised our bill by about $30.00 a month. Once the DME drops is off, they only come out and service it once a year. These units can generate O2 flows up to 4-5 liters.

Liquid O2 are super quiet, use very little energy but need to be refilled once or twice a month. Generally these a reserved for patients that are on 5 liters or more and have a refillable portable system.

We tried to get one of these, but my wife has portable O2, but only uses it from time to time. At this time she did not qualify for the Liquid system, and I am glad about that as I was not to wild about having 15 gallons of liquid O2 in the house right now.

I wish we had a quieter concentrator, but we moved it into the spare bedroom and I have a 50' O2 line running to it. That takes care of the noise problem.

I hope this helps.

[greatunclebill]

to clarify, hospitals use compressed o2 tanks that are about 5 feet tall, the same as welders o2 tank except it's medical grade. actually they use all types of cylinders and LOX. they get them from companies that make gases, dry ice, liqid nitrogen, them kinds of things. delivery drivers come around periodically and change the empties out for full tanks. this is the kind of thing i was speaking of. at 2L i'm sure that a full tank running only at night would last alot longer than a few days.

[retrodave15]

Here is a good comparison of the systems and run time on a O2 cylinders. Cylinders are not economical for long duration use.

http://horizonaire.ca/Site_2/Medical_Oxygen.html

We have the concentrator, an M tank as a reserve tank, and some M6 tanks and a con server for on the go needs.

[allen476]

My main question is, is there any other device I could use in place of the oxygen concentrator? My doctor says no but he is just a general practitioner and while I love the guy I am not sure if he is up on all of the different technologies out there.

My second question is, are there any long term effects of being on oxygen every single night?

I just really hate the idea of having to be on oxygen for the rest of my life especially since I am only 31 years old.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rome

The long and short of it......There really isn't much of a choice when you are only on O2 at night.

I was just placed on O2 at night for almost the same reason you are. I inquired about different systems and was told that a concentrator would be the only choice I would have since I only need it at night. Liquid O2 is appropriate if you need a high flow 24/7. Tanks are usually for emergency backup.

If the noise is bothering you, call your DME and ask if they have a quieter model. Otherwise you might want to move it into another room and run a longer tubing to it. The one I have is fairly quiet so it doesn't bother me sitting next to the bed.

Also check with your insurance company and see what they pay for. Some are a rental for life, some buy the concentrator after a rental period. There are pro's and con's to each. Also find out if it is a rent to own if the insurance company pays for the service after the purchase as that can get very expensive.

What brand/model did they give you?

[RomeinDNVR]

I have a PR Everflow concentrator. It is a rental for life, $30 a month I think is what I am paying after insurance costs. I have moved it into my living room and have a 50' tube running along my baseboards into my bedroom, that has helped with the noise aspect of it. I was just really hoping that I wouldn't need this thing long-term especially since I travel a lot and I don't have a travel sized concentrator and my insurance won't cover one.

Thanks all for the advice, maybe I will get lucky and in another 6 months find out I don't need it anymore.

[rtbob]

Ask your DME provider if you can switch concentrators to a Visionaire or Everflo. These are both very quiet units.

[allen476]

I have a PR Everflow concentrator. It is a rental for life, $30 a month I think is what I am paying after insurance costs. I have moved it into my living room and have a 50' tube running along my baseboards into my bedroom, that has helped with the noise aspect of it. I was just really hoping that I wouldn't need this thing long-term especially since I travel a lot and I don't have a travel sized concentrator and my insurance won't cover one.

Thanks all for the advice, maybe I will get lucky and in another 6 months find out I don't need it anymore.

I would ask if they have a quieter model.

The positive of rental for life is that you won't have to pay for the maintenance of it. Also if it breaks down, they will replace it immediately. The down side is that you are sometimes stuck with whatever model they have at the time.

And I wouldn't count on needing it short term until you and your doctor can figure out the low saturations at night. Be prepared for more sleep studies in order to figure it out.

[torontoCPAPguy]

I would be looking at the Everflo Q 5L/M unit; we run it in the bedroom and it is dead quiet. Just turn it on before ANYONE wants to go to bed as it tests the alarms when powered up and they would wake the dead. I've had TWO of them for almost three years (come with 5 yr warranty) and LOVE them. Tough to travel with but not impossible.... and they are cheap. You should be able to find them online for about $700 delivered, with hose and all. Be sure you get an anti flowback unit to prevent oxygen from accumulating in your XPAP if you forget and leave O2 running for a while. It goes at the air hose exit from the machine. I bought an oxygen tester and at 4L/M oxygen content goes up from 21% to about 35%. Sufficient to improve my smoothed SpO2 during the night to about 95% and prevent the plummets down into the 70's.... a sure disruption of REM sleep, as when you enter REM sleep you tend to breath more shallow and your autonomic nervous system arouses you. I have TWO of the Everflow Q's as I demand redundancy. I use one for travel and for standby. Get the ones with OPI built in for an extra $40 to tell you oxygen quality, etc. You need to BUY a pulse oximeter and I highly recommend the NEW Contec CMS50EW; it will record your pulse rate and SpO2 all night and has a rechargeable battery. It connects to your laptop or computer using Blutooth. Outstanding. I also have the older ones and they are fine as well except that the USB cable is proprietary. Lots more to say, but I have to head out shopping. You are on the right track. Just remember to titrate your O2 infusion and use minimum necessary otherwise you will start finding your lungs working less efficiently during the daytime and find shortness of breath as a result.
Good luck. Keep at it. In the end it makes a difference. And get lots of nightime sleep. I try to get to bed by 10 and up at 7 am. A ten hour night of sleep is not a bad thing for those of us with sleep apnea, especially those deficient in REM sleep.

Hey everyone, been a while since I have been on the forum.

I have been on CPAP since October of 2011 and I have been able to adapt to it very well. When I had my sleep study even with CPAP my O2 sats were dropping into the low 80s and I had a lot of central apneas. To counteract that they started an O2 bleed of 2LPM and my O2 sats went back up into the 90s and my centrals dropped dramatically. My doctor explained to me that since I have had Sleep Apnea my entire life and waited until I was 31 to have it treated that my nervous system needed to be retrained to make me breath consistently while I sleep. So I have had an O2 concentrator in my house since October (I hate it, it is big and loud) and my stats look great in sleepyhead. My doctor had me take home a O2 sensor to wear on my finger while I sleep. He had me spend one night with the O2 bleed going and one night with it shut off. Unfortunately without the O2 my stats were HORRIBLE and my O2 dropped down to 78 while I was sleeping.

My main question is, is there any other device I could use in place of the oxygen concentrator? My doctor says no but he is just a general practitioner and while I love the guy I am not sure if he is up on all of the different technologies out there.

My second question is, are there any long term effects of being on oxygen every single night?

I just really hate the idea of having to be on oxygen for the rest of my life especially since I am only 31 years old.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rome