My experience with Provent

[NateS]

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In light of above comments it seems to me that the Provant should be used in combination with a chinstrap to prevent mouthleak.

If they recommend breathing through your mouth with Provent until you are asleep, how would the chinstrap get on?

Nate

[SleepingUgly]

If they recommend breathing through your mouth with Provent until you are asleep, how would the chinstrap get on?

I never could manage with an ordinary chinstrap because I always puffed air out of my mouth. I'm assuming (although I haven't tried it yet) that all the chinstraps that allowed me to puff air out would allow for a little bit of breathing while awake. I may be wrong about that, so we'll see.

[NightMonkey]

No Kudos to you for insinuating a respected researcher did nothing more.

Why so sensitive as to insinuate I insulted Rapoport? Is he you supervisor?

Just for the record I did not criticize Dr. Rapoport's work, did not know the name until you inserted it, and don't remember ever having read a single word he wrote.

[-SWS]

No Kudos to you for insinuating a respected researcher did nothing more.

Why so sensitive as to insinuate I insulted Rapoport? Is he you supervisor?

Just for the record I did not criticize Dr. Rapoport's work, did not know the name until you inserted it, and don't remember ever having read a single word he wrote.

I have no particular sensitivity about the issue. I have never met Rapoport despite your suggestion that I might work for him.

That word "suggestion" is operative. Your suggestion that Dr. Rapoport might have watched a Provent video to formulate his opinions about Provent is what led me to mistakently think you were insinuating the same thing:

Did Dr. Rapoport use that MIT physics degree, his MD, his patents, his venerable iconny, and his practice of sleep medicine to develop his belief about the "three potentially beneficial mechanisms"?????

Or did he just watch the same two-minute cartoon containing them on the Provent site that I watched? http://www.proventtherapy.com/hcp/patient-selection.php

I stand corrected. The above reference to a two-minute cartoon was not insinuation after all...

[jnk]

I stand corrected. The above reference to a two-minute cartoon was not insinuation after all...

I agree with -SWS and Dr. Rapoport on the Provent thingy.

Provent is counterintuitive in many respects. But hey, if it helps some people, it helps. The science shows it helps some people A LOT.

Rapoport is very up-front with the fact that Provent is not a CPAP replacement in the sense of putting the CPAP companies out of business--but hey, what is, right? And Rapoport seemed genuinely surprised by how many people were helped by Provent when I heard him mention it at an A.W.A.K.E. meeting a while back.

As for his credibility on the subject, Rapoport's statement to the audience on Provent, and several other devices, when I heard him speak, was something along the lines of "Look, I made money from them myself, so don't believe a word I say." And those words forming that self-deprecating disclaimer were the very words that did much to make me trust his words all the more.

I can't say I agreed with every word out of his mouth. I didn't like the idea of less-than-4-cm CPAP during wake, for example, which was something else he was involved in with a different company. (Just sounded uncomfortable to me.) But, -SWS, Rapoport is as awesome in person as he is in print, IMO, with or without touted credentials. If he says "check this out; it helps people," it is ALWAYS worth checking out.

Thanks for your posts in this thread, -SWS. Big time. (And that is NOT sarcasm on my part. Although, I must say, yours, above, to the chimp of the night, still has me laughing. )

[SleepingUgly]

jnk, what do you mean by

I didn't like the idea of less-than-4-cm CPAP during wake, for example, which was something else he was involved in with a different company. (Just sounded uncomfortable.)

[SleepingUgly]

So far my wake time experience has been OK. It feels no worse, and even somewhat better, than when I've had a cold and my nose was stuffed up. When I have a cold, I can neither inhale nor exhale through my nose, whereas with Provent, I find that a slight mouth opening to exhale in conjunction with the nose is sufficient. It's the sleep time that's been more difficult. I'm on a hiatus until next weekend, though, so nothing new to report.

[jnk]

jnk, what do you mean by

I didn't like the idea of less-than-4-cm CPAP during wake, for example, which was something else he was involved in with a different company. (Just sounded uncomfortable.)

Here was my overly-flippant review of his talk:

viewtopic.php?p=478018#p478018

Here are links to his entire presentation as recorded by Mike of Sleepguide:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=52138&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p480978

[SleepingUgly]

Interesting data, including some about combining Provent with other treatments (e.g., positional, chinstrap, etc.). I also was interested in the fact that they claim it yields Epworth scores comparable to that of CPAP.

http://www.caremedical.com/documents/CA ... 1-1117.pdf

[avi123]

del

[SleepingUgly]

…
In light of above comments it seems to me that the Provant should be used in combination with a chinstrap to prevent mouthleak.

If they recommend breathing through your mouth with Provent until you are asleep, how would the chinstrap get on?

Nate

How else could you prevent mouth breathing while on the Provent?

Supposedly most people switch to nasal breathing with Provent when they fall asleep (most, not all).

p.s. my sleep Doc is a colleague of Dr David Rapoport from NY medical school, and my sleep Doc also behave quite strangely.

[neurotony]

Just for the record I did not criticize Dr. Rapoport's work, did not know the name until you inserted it, and don't remember ever having read a single word he wrote.

Fascinating, continue to tell us how informed you are on why Provent won't work. (yes, that's sarcasm) It's funny you took time to comment in my thread and continue here without watching the video link below which is in my first post. If you had, you would have heard of Rapaport. I recommend watching it, the whole videoseries is pretty informative too, though this is the only video discussing Provent.

Here's Rappaport's discussion on his research:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trbAfp6pzZQ

Here's a recent NYTimes article (this is the article I first heard about Provent and lead me to get my sleep study):
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/0 ... -the-mask/


Here's some recent research:
"Changes in lung volume and upper airway using MRI during application of nasal expiratory positive airway pressure in patients with sleep-disordered breathing."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21344051

"A multicenter, prospective study of a novel nasal EPAP device in the treatment of obstructive sleep apnea: efficacy and 30-day adherence."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20465019

Effect of expiratory positive airway pressure on sleep disordered breathing."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18363320

But wait, there's more!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=epap+apnea

Note there isn't a single link to the Provent site. Having been a research scientist, I know what a company's marketing dept can do with research results so I prefer objective analysis or core articles. Though, to be fair, Provent seems to be reasonable if not conservative in their claims.

I think those of us who are trying Provent are seeing if we fit into that 50% of the people it works for and then into the subsequent 50% it is effective in.

You can squelch all you want, but for me it's proving effective. I appreciate your compulsion to nay-say and I don't think any of the above research will alter your perception. In my thread and SU's, you seem to be playing devil's advocate, which is fine, but at least be an informed devil's advocate. I'm moving forward on Provent without your approval.

Carry on.

[NightMonkey]

I'm moving forward on Provent without your approval.

Cute!

[neurotony]

…
In light of above comments it seems to me that the Provant should be used in combination with a chinstrap to prevent mouthleak.

If they recommend breathing through your mouth with Provent until you are asleep, how would the chinstrap get on?

Nate

My snore monitoring has shown that I do still snore on Provent for about 20-45 minutes per night. Much improved and I've come to the conclusion that I want to try a chin-strap as well. I don't know much about them but I'm assuming there's some give, but even without give my lips will open even with my jaw shut so air will get in. It'll be an interesting evening I'm sure. Lol.

I went to the medical supplier yesterday and they said I need a prescription so I'll likely have to wait until after my consultation in a week and a half to get one. Though I suppose a taught pair of pantyhose may also do the trick. I am thinking pantyhose because they provide tension with some stretching room. My assumption it will hold my mouth shut if there's no resistance and if I need to open it to talk or breath I can do that. Heck, maybe some bungees will work too. Heh.

[VVV]

My experience with Provent

Postby SleepingUgly on Sun May 06, 2012 6:58 pm

I hope this works out just perfectly for you.

At my sleep doc's visit last week I got a script and the doc was interested if I would try it for emergencies like power failures and the what.

Not to get fussed at for comparing it to CPAP but at least for my case the deficiencies seem to be: 1) lower pressure than what I need; 2) no pressure support on inhale; 3) difficulty of getting the devices to adhere all night; 4) difficulty learning to go to sleep with mouth open; and 5) no data feedback - efficacy estimate is mostly subjective.

I wonder if you could cut out those valves and bond them into standard nasal pillows to get multiple uses and avoid the glue-on-the-nostrils problem?