Battery Backup?

[wvbike_99]

Going to get a battery backup for my cpap. I have the battery alligator clips and the 12 volt plug on the way for my Responics Remstar Auto A-flex, however I really don't like the idea of a big deep cycle battery sitting by the head of the bed so I want to pick up one of the smaller units that will run my machine for 1 or 2 nights. I have big batteries in case of a long power outage. I want it small, will keep it under the head of my bed ready to go when power goes out. Will also take it with me camping and when we stay in a Hotel just as a backup. We only camp where there is electric.
Anyway I need some recommendations on what is working for u guys. I have seen them from about 3 lbs to 14 lbs. The lithium Ion kits look good to me.
What do u suggest?
Thanks ED

[So Well]

Batter Backup?

It is a good idea to have a batter backup. An emergency pancake lusting can happen anytime of day.

[wvbike_99]

OK so I changed it to BATTERY, Thanks for your help.
ED

[JohnBFisher]

Here's a pointer to a topic to create a battery backup system:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=49115&p449334

The design uses a deep cycle battery, a float charger and battery case. It's designed to be as safe as possible. Hope it helps.

[ProfessorEd]

I like many have been concerned about a backup CPAP backup power source for power failures and the ability to run my machine during camping.

My first attempt involved buying a large marine battery (marine was suggested because they are designed for slow drain applications like warning lights on sailboats, while auto batteries are designed for a short burst of power to start the engine). I spent about $200, plus buying a converter to convert to alternating current and a way to charge it, struggling with various connection problems. A friend helped me with a solution? that involved two wires, one on each terminal. I never was able to run the machine off of this set up.

Recently I bought a "Schumacher XP2260 Instant Portable Power Source" from Amazon for about $100 after noting that in the review one person mentioned using it when camping for her husband's CPAP machine. I have confirmed it runs my machine.

This device (and there are others) is multipurpose being basically a lead acid battery with jumper cables to start dead cars (which was what I was searching for). However, it also had a 400W inverter stated able to provided 120V of household power (and two standard sockets you could plug things into, such as my machine), an air compressor (for tires), power sockets for 12V accessory power (the type of connectors a car has) and a USB port, and a three diode built in light. It also has built in recharging equipment so you can plug it in at home and assorted gages etc. While no cheaper than single purpose solutions, the multiple uses may make it a better purchase.

This seemed like a worthwhile investment since it met both my need for jumps starting a car and for emergency and camping CPAP power, and could be used for other emergency purposes or camping when power was needed. Of course, the total package is bulky and heavy (11.8 lbs), but meeting several needs at once made it attractive, and a solution some may not have thought of. It could be carried in the car for emergency uses and brought inside only when needed for power failures.

The same brand offers portable power supply without built in jumper cables (which might be safer with children around) and no air compressor for only $85. It might be possible to buy separate jumper cables that would be inserted into the 12 volt outlet (which would be safer since children might not figure out a way to shock themselves with the jumper cables). There is a Duracell brand item with more power and a much higher price ($169.95).

One question I have is how to make use of the large investment in the marine battery which I never could make work and indeed presented a safety hazard (I got sparks trying to recharge it from this device due to an unnoticed short from the stripped wares touching.) This device may not have enough power to run my machine for more than one night (although its portability rising the possibility of taking it somewhere with power and recharging (i.e. work). Observation shows the recharging rate is slow (perhaps less than 10% over 8 hours), but a full day at the office would help, and the built in handle means carrying it to and from a car would be practical.

From comments I gather with the right connector you can recharge this from you car power sources (cigarettes lighter)while driving (i.e. useful on long car camping trip where you would recharge it while driving. Presumably this might also be done if one drove to work or somewhere during a power outage (I do not know how long this would take). From the warning in the instructions about no overcharging, it appears this just establishes a direct connection with your car's electrical system (and there is nothing to limit the current flow or prevent overcharging while when recharged from household current there are circuits to prevent this). I do not know how long this would take, and any advice from someone with better knowledge would be useful (for instance could you recharge it just by running the car for a short time or during a fairly short commute or shopping trip.

A table on Amazon for the Duracell line of similar products suggests recharging time of 2.5 hours to 4 hours using direct current, so that full recharging would be unlikely on short commutes, although partial recharging would be useful, and full recharging would appear possible on long trips. If willing to leave the car idling for hours in the driveway, full recharging wold appear possible. The required male to male connector appears to cost only $5.37, so I probably should buy it just to have the option.

There should be a safe way to connect the two batteries so they would act as one, although I am not quite sure what product is needed. Putting the two jumper cables on the marine battery terminals would seem to do this, although I am do not know whether there is something that would prevent this from working (blocking a reverse current flow somehow). Also, if I found a connector with a cigarette lighter type connector on one end, and two clamps that could connect to the marine battery, I believe both would function as one battery, giving me a larger power capacity (and I might be tempted to use one of the outlets for some other power need when the snow or other storms cut power to the house). I could get a connection using a Roadpro 12V Battery Clip-On and Cigarette Lighter Adapter ($5.60) and then a RoadPro RP-203EC 12V 12' Extension Cord with Cigarette Lighter Plug ($8.97) or the male to male connector mentioned above, but there should be a device with a cigarette type male plug on one end and clips for the battery terminal on the other, although I have not found it. I do not know if the above solution would be any better than just putting the jumper cables on the other battery.

I also have some concerns as to the status of the marine battery, which has sat unused for several years. I have been charging it by connecting it to the Instant Portable Power Source at night, and then recharging the power source (the manual says not to try to use the device while it is plugged into the wall sockets). I am not sure what shape it is in or how to determine that. My new device provides a voltage measure which appears to show a 13 Volt on the battery, suggesting it is still good.

I am presuming the Instant Portable Power Source output will power the Respironics Bipap for a longer period (I just tested it for a few seconds to confirm it did work). I notice the manual describes it as producing a nonsinusoidal wave form .

I have some safety concerns since I have children at home and 12 V batteries can give shocks or produce fire starting sparks. The device I bought has a switch to turn off power to the jumper cables, but the marine battery terminals are exposed (I have then covered with duct tape now to prevent problems).

[BobHale]

I purchased this unit. http://www.bestcpapprice.com/Compact-Po ... p_516.html
I have run my unit in it for 2 nights. The unit is small enough to bring on motorcycle camping trips

[Lizistired]

I purchased this unit. http://www.bestcpapprice.com/Compact-Po ... p_516.html
I have run my unit in it for 2 nights. The unit is small enough to bring on motorcycle camping trips

And you bought the Resmed DC connector too?

[archangle]

I really don't like the idea of a big deep cycle battery sitting by the head of the bed.

If you're worried about the danger, other than the risk of knocking it over and spilling acid, the deep cycle battery in a battery box is no more dangerous than the smaller batteries. DO have a fuse right at the battery.

All lithium batteries are considerably more dangerous than lead acid batteries. Both for fire and for the chemicals they can release if they have a catastrophic failure. They also have a bad tendency to die on you with no warning.

None of the batteries are that dangerous unless you do something dumb. Fires and such are pretty unlikely.

Be careful sizing your backup battery. It's really easy to get yourself something you like, but it's not reliable or won't last the night. Be sure to make a trial run every so often to be sure the battery still holds enough charge.

[ProfessorEd]

Question I have is how to connect the battery units to the Respironics BiPap M model (tank version with a large power brick). I see the transformer unit has 26 volts written on it, so I gather a direct 12 V connection is not going to work. I assume one of the CPAP supply houses would know exactly what I need.

The problem seem to be to find something that would take an automobile battery 12 volt connector and have the right type of connector on the other end. Alternatively, there may be something that plugs into the humidifier. The humidifier appears to take 120 V alternating current. I presume that the humidifier is simply a hot plate design using alternating current and then passing the alternating current to the power brick when it is converted to direct current for the main machine, or whatever the main machine needs, but I could be wrong.

There is a related issue that perhaps someone knows the answer for. On trips I need a way to run power from a wall outlet to the machine, and I do not have a power cord that does that. I have gone on a trip and not wanting to carry the weight of a humidifier just taken the machine, and then discovered I had no way of powering it. There must be a way of powering it, but what is it. I presume there is a special cord that can supply if, but what is it. Unless there is something I do not understand going on in the humidifier it seems that all that is needed is a wire with a 120 V plug on one end and the type of connector that the BiPap needs. If I knew the name of that connector it should be possible to find it at a good price at electrical supply stores such as Radio Shack. Anyone know, or have any advice.

I think what I need is Respironics CPAP Power Cord - 7ft. or the 5 foot version (only the description of this mentions the M series machines so perhaps there is a subtle difference in the connectors, but it is hard to tell from a CPAP picture just what the connectors are. If this is the right item it seems like one I should acquire in case the need for travel comes up again. If I knew the names of the connector it might be possible to acquire one a little cheaper.

Others may wish to remember this issue since carrying a humidifier is a nuisance, and setting one up and taking it down involves filling it and emptying the water reservoirs, and this is often not worth the added effort for a one night hotel stay, especially when the added weight of the humidifier is included.

I notice there is a Respironics 12 VDC Battery Adapter Cable quoted at $24.50 from CPAP which looks identical to the Roadpro 12V Battery Clip-On and Cigarette Lighter Adapter available for $5./61 from Amazon. Is there any reason I should not go with the cheaper device (presuming my insurance is not going to pay for a cable)? I see the Respironics 12-volt DC power cord is price at $24.50, which seems very high for two connectors joined by some cable. Is there anything special about this product?

[GumbyCT]

Question I have is how to connect the battery units to the Respironics BiPap M model (tank version with a large power brick). I see the transformer unit has 26 volts written on it, so I gather a direct 12 V connection is not going to work.

The M series IS 12V so if you are seeing 26V then you don't have an M.

Check for the model number on the bottom of your machine.

Does it look like this?
https://www.cpap.com/cpap-machine/respi ... -pro2.html

[GumbyCT]

Going to get a battery backup for my cpap. I have the battery alligator clips and the 12 volt plug on the way for my Responics Remstar Auto A-flex, however I really don't like the idea of a big deep cycle battery sitting by the head of the bed so I want to pick up one of the smaller units that will run my machine for 1 or 2 nights. I have big batteries in case of a long power outage. I want it small, will keep it under the head of my bed ready to go when power goes out. Will also take it with me camping and when we stay in a Hotel just as a backup. We only camp where there is electric.
Anyway I need some recommendations on what is working for u guys. I have seen them from about 3 lbs to 14 lbs. The lithium Ion kits look good to me.
What do u suggest?
Thanks ED

This is what I use - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=64943&p=665520&hili ... on#p652662

I think it costs less than buying the individual parts and is plug n play for those who aren't too handy.

If you are handy you can use this connect to your BIG battery too. I use mine plugged in and charging at all times.

[ProfessorEd]

Question I have is how to connect the battery units to the Respironics BiPap M model (tank version with a large power brick). I see the transformer unit has 26 volts written on it, so I gather a direct 12 V connection is not going to work.

The M series IS 12V so if you are seeing 26V then you don't have an M.

Check for the model number on the bottom of your machine.

Does it look like this?
https://www.cpap.com/cpap-machine/respi ... -pro2.html

Thanks.

I do have a M series machine and it does look like the picture. I understood it to be 12 V, although do remember some discussion several years ago (when I first struggled with this problem) that the design voltage was slightly different from 12 V to encourage you to buy their special equipment. I will talk to a store or medical equipment manager before buying anything.

I do not understand the 26V on the "brick" power pack, but it is definitely there. Possibly someone else knows more.

[Paul56]

I have never needed a backup solution; however, I'm thinking one of
these would be a nice solution that would also provide power for other
devices when you are not sleeping

http://powerequipment.honda.com/product ... =EU1000IKN

[JohnBFisher]

There's the question about what to use for the humidifier ... If you really need a heated humidifier (and most people do NOT need it for a night or two), then you will want to consider a pure sine wave inverter. These cost a LOT more than a modified sine wave inverter. Additionally, they tend to use more power than a modified sine wave inverter.

A better option is to use a modified sine wave inverter, turn OFF the heating element and use the humidifier as a passive humidifier. It uses less power and does increase the moisture ... just not as much as with a heated humidifier.

A caution about a generator (like the Honda listed), it does not produce a pure sine wave. It produces a modified sine wave. Further, as with all generators, they are an outdoor only item (or at least an open garage). Though it is listed as "super quiet", 53 to 59 dB is not all that quiet - at night! It would be similar to someone talking in a normal conversation outside your house at night. You would notice it. It's not too intrusive, granted. But it would be noticeable.

[ProfessorEd]

Question I have is how to connect the battery units to the Respironics BiPap M model (tank version with a large power brick). I see the transformer unit has 26 volts written on it, so I gather a direct 12 V connection is not going to work.

The M series IS 12V so if you are seeing 26V then you don't have an M.

Check for the model number on the bottom of your machine.

Does it look like this?
https://www.cpap.com/cpap-machine/respi ... -pro2.html

In an earlier post of your you mentioned that for some reason ResMed had chosen to design some of their systems for 24V direct power. Possibly Respironics did this also for my model.

I see from searching you have made many posts and contributed much information and I would like to thank you for this. Many of us lack knowledge of the details of power supply (even if we have engineering degrees) and people like you who take time to provided their experience are appreciated.