Higher pressure leading to higher AHI?
Higher pressure leading to higher AHI?
Hello,
I've appreciated the wisdom on this board for a few years and I'm back to ask another question.
I have a Respironics bipap set at 10/4 (at least I know the ipap was 10; I think the epap was 4). My AHIs have consistently been about 6 per hour (AIs virtually 0) so I've been trying to "self-titrate" by increasing my pressure. I slowly went up to 10, then 11, and the numbers didn't get much better. AHI about 9 I think. Then, last night, I decided I'd go up to 12.4. And AHI was 16! Whoa! Strange thing is, I feel fairly rested, though a little spacey. (Also of note, the machine pushed the epap up to 7, I think.)
Any idea why increasing my pressure would actually make my AHI *worse*? I have no leak problems with my mask. I have, however, been having a stuffy nose, so I wonder if that impacts things. (I think I've developed allergies in my 30s.)
I know I need to get another sleep study/titration, but I just can't afford the $850 out of pocket right now.
Should I keep going up and see what happens? Or back down to 10? Thank you!!
I've appreciated the wisdom on this board for a few years and I'm back to ask another question.
I have a Respironics bipap set at 10/4 (at least I know the ipap was 10; I think the epap was 4). My AHIs have consistently been about 6 per hour (AIs virtually 0) so I've been trying to "self-titrate" by increasing my pressure. I slowly went up to 10, then 11, and the numbers didn't get much better. AHI about 9 I think. Then, last night, I decided I'd go up to 12.4. And AHI was 16! Whoa! Strange thing is, I feel fairly rested, though a little spacey. (Also of note, the machine pushed the epap up to 7, I think.)
Any idea why increasing my pressure would actually make my AHI *worse*? I have no leak problems with my mask. I have, however, been having a stuffy nose, so I wonder if that impacts things. (I think I've developed allergies in my 30s.)
I know I need to get another sleep study/titration, but I just can't afford the $850 out of pocket right now.
Should I keep going up and see what happens? Or back down to 10? Thank you!!
- JohnBFisher
- Posts: 3821
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:33 am
Re: Higher pressure leading to higher AHI?
Increasing the pressure can trigger complex apneas. Essentially as the pressure increases you start to have central apneas. This is one cause.
"I get up. I walk. I fall down. Meanwhile, I keep dancing” from Rabbi Hillel
"I wish to paint in such a manner as if I were photographing dreams." from Zdzisław Beksiński
"I wish to paint in such a manner as if I were photographing dreams." from Zdzisław Beksiński
- Perrybucsdad
- Posts: 834
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:09 am
- Location: Northeast Ohio
Re: Higher pressure leading to higher AHI?
There was a great post a little while back from Firehope that demostrated that a lower pressure sometimes can lead to a lower AHI. Interesting read.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=68846&p=639694#p639694
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=68846&p=639694#p639694
Re: Higher pressure leading to higher AHI?
Thank you both! I'll go check out that thread. I think that tonight I'll lower my ipap back down to 10 but up the epap to 7 or 8.
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sickwithapnea17
- Posts: 472
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:41 pm
Re: Higher pressure leading to higher AHI?
I'm finding though that my pressure of 18/14 reduces the clear airway apneas which may be central apneas- anyone know the reason for this?
also what should I set the Ti to?
also what should I set the Ti to?
18/14 bipap st
Re: Higher pressure leading to higher AHI?
My titrated pressure was 9 in my sleep study. I found after buying and auto machine that at a fixed pressure of 9, I was at an AHI of 15 at times. Most of my AHI has always been hypopnea and most nights I have no obstructive apnea. I have experimented with various ranges and found that a range of 9-11 works well at times, but sometimes I pop up into the double digits after being 4.5AHI on other nights.
Mouth leaks with nasal pillow masks contribute to this and the higher the pressure, the more I see exhale puff index (EPI) rising. Last night, I was in good territory for 4 hours and the last hour of sleep showed my pressure rising up and bouncing briefly at the 11 pressure. I experienced some EPI and a snoring episode during this period and it drive my AHI up to 10.5 after staying below 3 for most of the night.
Mask type, whether or not you use a nasal mask or a full face mask can enter into the equation. Mouth leaks will throw off the readings and inhibit your machine from being able to respond. It's kind of like blowing up a balloon that has a small hole in it. A chin strap can help if you are using a nasal mask. Some here use blue painters tape or surgical tape to keep the lips closed. I have a very short beard, but it interferes with taping or the use of a full face mask.
Mouth leaks with nasal pillow masks contribute to this and the higher the pressure, the more I see exhale puff index (EPI) rising. Last night, I was in good territory for 4 hours and the last hour of sleep showed my pressure rising up and bouncing briefly at the 11 pressure. I experienced some EPI and a snoring episode during this period and it drive my AHI up to 10.5 after staying below 3 for most of the night.
Mask type, whether or not you use a nasal mask or a full face mask can enter into the equation. Mouth leaks will throw off the readings and inhibit your machine from being able to respond. It's kind of like blowing up a balloon that has a small hole in it. A chin strap can help if you are using a nasal mask. Some here use blue painters tape or surgical tape to keep the lips closed. I have a very short beard, but it interferes with taping or the use of a full face mask.
Re: Higher pressure leading to higher AHI?
One thing that I would point out is that one night does not indicate a trend. Increasing your pressure may be having the effect of increasing your AHI, but I would give it more than one night before I came to that conclusion.
Dog is my copilot
Re: Higher pressure leading to higher AHI?
You need more than one night to see what is happening.
From my personal experience over 3 months I increased my pressure (CPAP) from 13 up to 17 under theory that the higher the pressure the better the therapy. Keep in that this was over a 3 month period.
My AHI went up, not just the centrals, but also the obsturctive apneas. Also they were a lot longer and more clustered. I'm back down to 13 and I'm doing better, lower numbers, sometimes not as low as I would like, but I'm running close to an AHI of 5 with about 3 in centrals and 1 or so in obstructives; hypopneas are less than .5.
The centrals are the crazy thing. I'll sleep for 5 or 6 hours and have an overall AHI that is less than 3. If I go back to sleep for another hour or 2 I can tack on another 1.0 to 2.0 in centrals.
John
From my personal experience over 3 months I increased my pressure (CPAP) from 13 up to 17 under theory that the higher the pressure the better the therapy. Keep in that this was over a 3 month period.
My AHI went up, not just the centrals, but also the obsturctive apneas. Also they were a lot longer and more clustered. I'm back down to 13 and I'm doing better, lower numbers, sometimes not as low as I would like, but I'm running close to an AHI of 5 with about 3 in centrals and 1 or so in obstructives; hypopneas are less than .5.
The centrals are the crazy thing. I'll sleep for 5 or 6 hours and have an overall AHI that is less than 3. If I go back to sleep for another hour or 2 I can tack on another 1.0 to 2.0 in centrals.
John
AHI: 2.5
Central: 1.7
Obstructive: 0.3
Hypopnea: 0.5
Pressure: 6.0-8.0cm on back with cervical collar.
Compliance: 15 Years
Central: 1.7
Obstructive: 0.3
Hypopnea: 0.5
Pressure: 6.0-8.0cm on back with cervical collar.
Compliance: 15 Years
Re: Higher pressure leading to higher AHI?
I decided to bring my ipap pressure back down to 10 like normal, but increase the epap pressure to 8. (I think it's been either 4 or 7). First night with that, AHI of 10. Second night, AHI of 6. I'm going to stick with these settings for at least a week and see how it goes.
I am trying to learn more about whether the epap or ipap prevents apneas. For some time I thought the epap didn't really matter; it was just lower to make exhaling easier. Now I'm reading otherwise. Does anyone have any good links to help me learn more about this?
I am trying to learn more about whether the epap or ipap prevents apneas. For some time I thought the epap didn't really matter; it was just lower to make exhaling easier. Now I'm reading otherwise. Does anyone have any good links to help me learn more about this?
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sickwithapnea17
- Posts: 472
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:41 pm
Re: Higher pressure leading to higher AHI?
I tried different bipap settings of bilevel 10/4 and 15/11-18/14 and the AHIs were lower on the 15/11-18/14 higher pressure for some reason. I have mostly hypopneas now on bipapst though I was getting a lot of clear airway apneas on the bipap
18/14 bipap st

