Uninterruptible Power Supplies

[Purrceyz]

Does anyone here have there machine attached to an interruptible power supply? (like the type that are used for computers). Blackouts and brownouts are very infrequent here (Toronto, Canada) but I'd like to be prepared. (I have a battery from cpap.com for travel. I've charged it, does anyone know how long it will hold the charge without be used?)

What type of wattage won a UPS ould I need to for Cpap machine? I don't use a humidifier with my APAP so it's would need less power than if I did. I've done some browsing but the choices are overwhelming.Would a UPS under 700 VA be OK?

Any comments would be appreciated.

[Perrybucsdad]

I've often wondered the same thing. The thing you need to know is how many watts your unit draws. With a 700VA unit, you can draw 455 Watts. If your unit draws 100Watts, you could expect the UPS to keep your unit running for approx 1 hour. I think you could do better than that with some of the batteries that they have on the market for the CPAP though.

[Emilia]

I use a Belkin UPS with an internal 12v battery. When the power goes out, it kicks in and gives me about 25-30 minutes of power.... enough to wait and see if the power comes back on or to turn things off properly and wait out the power failure. Mine beeps when the power goes out and the unit kicks into battery backup...waking me up to deal with the situation.

I also have the cpap.com battery for longer needs... I believe it will give you 8 hours of battery backup.

This is the unit I have: http://www.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage. ... _Id=427862

[Axxel]

Does anyone here have there machine attached to an interruptible power supply? (like the type that are used for computers). Blackouts and brownouts are very infrequent here (Toronto, Canada) but I'd like to be prepared. (I have a battery from cpap.com for travel. I've charged it, does anyone know how long it will hold the charge without be used?)

What type of wattage won a UPS ould I need to for Cpap machine? I don't use a humidifier with my APAP so it's would need less power than if I did. I've done some browsing but the choices are overwhelming.Would a UPS under 700 VA be OK?

Any comments would be appreciated.

I use APC products alot. I use their surge protectors and uninterruptible power supply (also called UPS). If you have brownouts there, you definitely need one. Brownouts are low power under voltage and do alot of damage to sensitive electronics. Regular surge protectors only protect against blackouts and surges and spikes which happen quite often before and after a blackout when power comes back on. A ups will protect against both blackouts and brownouts. Most ups have built in surge protection. Like the other post said, figure out your wattage use of your setup. Then go here. Here is a sizing link for apc to help you select what ups you need. Cpap is not an option, but you can probably find another device on there with similar wattage use. http://www.apc.com/tools/ups_selector/index.cfm

I dont purchase from their website. APC website prices are high. I like best buy or walmart or amazon.

I think I paid about $80 from best buy a couple years ago for my ups and I dont remember how much wattage I use, but it's significant.

[jmcanzo]

Does anyone here have there machine attached to an interruptible power supply? (like the type that are used for computers). Blackouts and brownouts are very infrequent here (Toronto, Canada) but I'd like to be prepared. (I have a battery from cpap.com for travel. I've charged it, does anyone know how long it will hold the charge without be used?)

What type of wattage won a UPS ould I need to for Cpap machine? I don't use a humidifier with my APAP so it's would need less power than if I did. I've done some browsing but the choices are overwhelming.Would a UPS under 700 VA be OK?

Any comments would be appreciated.

Your Intellipap will run on 12v. I bought an inexpensive "jump start" at Harbor Freight on sale for $39
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt-ju ... 38391.html
The 12v cord that comes with it to charge it in a car also fits the Intellipap. I have tested it and ran off battery for 8.5 hrs. Humidifier does not heat on 12v so it just becomes passover. If you leave the jump start connected to the Intellipap and the 110v connected. The Intellipap will use the 12v for cpap and the 110v for the humidifier heat. If connected this way and the power went out the Intellipap would keep on running without you doing anything.

[archangle]

Most UPS units will produce what's called Modified Sine Wave (MSW) output voltage. Some equipment may be damaged by MSW voltages. Resmed claims S8 series humidifiers will be damaged by MSW inverters. S9 units are supposedly OK.

I don't know which other makes of CPAP machines will or won't work with MSW AC voltages.

[moresleep]

Some of the APC "Smart UPC" lineup produce sine waves. But, be careful, as even UPC's that boast sine waves sometime produce something closer to a modified sine wave. If you can, talk to the maker of your humidifier about the issue.

In trying to determine how how a UPS will last with your equipment, I would look, not at a measure of power, such as watts or VA, but at a measure of power over time. That is, if the maker says the unit will supply 150 watts for 23 minutes, that's 57.5 watt hours ((23/60)*150). Divide that by the power requirement of your equipment to get a figure in hours. That is, if your Cpap+humidifier takes 100 watts, 57.5/100 = .57 hours.

I have generally not been happy with UPS performace with a Cpap. They never seemed to have the capacity I expected, timewise. Also, I wore out 2 of the 3 that I have used, and I didn't like the way they quit--one started clacking relays and buzzing, while the other got dangerously hot. On the good side, UPS's are usually (at least the larger ones) in a sturdy metal box which might contain a fire/explosion

If your Cpap will work directly with a battery, even if with the manufacturer's DC-DC converter, that is a much better way to go. Much more efficient, and fewer things to go wrong. I have had reasonable luck with 12-volt jump start battery packs; but, be careful. While they generally use AGM batteries (good), they are usually closer to dual-purpose than true deep cycle. Some models are cheap junk, and even good name brands often have horrible quality control these days. They also rarely exceed about 20ah in battery size. If you want an efficient, robust 12-volt battery system, utilizing a large deep cycle battery and reliable charging system, use the Search function above to find a string somewhere here describing a system that Archangel designed and uses.

[Perrybucsdad]

...use the Search function above to find a string somewhere here describing a system that Archangel designed and uses.

Here is the post that Archangle had for anyone who is interested. My only question is do you have to use a Philips converter with a Philips unit, or can you use any 12V converter with any unit? The reason I ask is I have a ResMed and don't see a converter for that maker.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=62477&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... 30#p586370

[archangle]

My only question is do you have to use a Philips converter with a Philips unit, or can you use any 12V converter with any unit? The reason I ask is I have a ResMed and don't see a converter for that maker.

The original poster had an "IntelliPAP AutoAdjust Travel CPAP Machine with SmartFlex." According to CPAP.com, the correct cable is this. You'd also need a cigarette lighter jack to battery cable clip adapter like this if you want to hook to something like a car battery. By the way, the CPAP manufacturers sure do rip you off for all these cables.

For PRS1 machines, you need the Respironics DC cable to run off of DC. It's $25 or so at CPAP.com. You can also make your own cable. It's a "size N DC barrel connector." Be sure to get the right polarity on the plug. The Respironics plug also fits ResMed S8 machines, but I think the polarity is reversed. Your CPAP machine goes up in smoke if you plug ResMed into Respironics or vice versa or simply get the polarity wrong.

Some older Respironics run the humidifier off of 120VAC, even if you run the CPAP off of DC and some run the CPAP off of 24V.

ResMed says you have to have their proprietary DC converter to run off of DC, even for the machines that run off of 12V. I believe S9 units have more than one voltage coming into the machine. I think S8 uses 12V (different polarity than Respironics), but ResMed says it still requires a special DC converter.

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/DC-12-Inverter.html
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/DC-Con ... hines.html

[Perrybucsdad]

Thanks archangle... what would happen if you just plugged the power brick of the ResMed unit into the AC outlet off of this device or would I still need to get the DC converter?

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... ockType=G1

[archangle]

Thanks archangle... what would happen if you just plugged the power brick of the ResMed unit into the AC outlet off of this device or would I still need to get the DC converter?

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... ockType=G1

If you want to use it as a backup unit to be hooked up after the power goes out, in theory, it will work fine on S9 units. It's probably got a MSW inverter, so it might damage the humdifier on S8 or earlier units. You would probably get more run time if you used the ResMed DC converter.

The original poster asked about an uninterruptable power supply setup. I don't know if that particular unit will run the inverter and produce AC while it's plugged into the wall.

It seems to be intended as a backup device, not a full time 24/7 UPS device. Many such backup battery devices will slowly damage the battery if you leave them plugged into the wall 24/7. Reliability and lifetime may be unsatisfactory if used full time.

I'm also concerned about the using an inexpensive inverter intended for short term use in a long term application. If it's designed for use a few nights a year, is it extra likely to fail if used 24/7? Is it likely to fail in a mode that will damage what's plugged into it?

Inverters in general are prone to failure. I don't know how often they fail in a mode that could damage your CPAP. If you're only using it a few nights a year during power failures, the risk is not that bad vs. the benefits. Using them 365 days a year increases the risk.

If you're using an inexpensive inverter 365 days a year, I would also not be surprised if the inverter is likely to have more outages in a year than the power grid.

[Uncle_Bob]

Thanks archangle... what would happen if you just plugged the power brick of the ResMed unit into the AC outlet off of this device or would I still need to get the DC converter?

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... ockType=G1

I've read posts from S9 users who plug into this

http://www.amazon.com/Duracell-DPP-600H ... title_auto

Which occasionally goes on sale for just over $100

[GumbyCT]

Thanks archangle... what would happen if you just plugged the power brick of the ResMed unit into the AC outlet off of this device or would I still need to get the DC converter?

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... ockType=G1

I've read posts from S9 users who plug into this

http://www.amazon.com/Duracell-DPP-600H ... title_auto

Which occasionally goes on sale for just over $100

While the Duracell certainly has a larger capacity battery it does not have as many of the options the Sears unit has. Such as USB, more DC outlets, and even the air compressor.

-------------------------------
BUT The Duracell has the alarm clock & radio in it. Price: $149.95 & this item ships for FREE with Super Saver Shipping.
Product Features

DPP-600HD is Hazmat and is non-returnable
Contains one DC outlet which can be used to both power devices and recharge the HD600 unit and also Contains three three-pronged AC outlets (480-watt continuous / 600-watt peak) to power multiple devices, appliances and tools
Built-in 600-watt power inverter, 5-watt flashlight, overload/over-temperature protection and reverse polarity detection
Sealed, non-spillable 28 amp hour AGM battery and detachable alligator clamps for jump-starting cars (up to 8-cylinder); non-returnable; refer to users' manual for charging instructions
Built-in AM/FM radio and digital alarm clock.
--------------------------------
You can certainly connect another battery in parallel to either unit to extend the "run time" if needed.

[Perrybucsdad]

... the Sears unit has.... and even the air compressor.

Makes for a handy dandy redneck emergency CPAP device if need be.

[Vader]

While the Duracell certainly has a larger capacity battery it does not have as many of the options the Sears unit has. Such as USB, more DC outlets, and even the air compressor.

-------------------------------
BUT The Duracell has the alarm clock & radio in it. Price: $149.95 & this item ships for FREE with Super Saver Shipping.
Product Features

DPP-600HD is Hazmat and is non-returnable
Contains one DC outlet which can be used to both power devices and recharge the HD600 unit and also Contains three three-pronged AC outlets (480-watt continuous / 600-watt peak) to power multiple devices, appliances and tools
Built-in 600-watt power inverter, 5-watt flashlight, overload/over-temperature protection and reverse polarity detection
Sealed, non-spillable 28 amp hour AGM battery and detachable alligator clamps for jump-starting cars (up to 8-cylinder); non-returnable; refer to users' manual for charging instructions
Built-in AM/FM radio and digital alarm clock.
--------------------------------
You can certainly connect another battery in parallel to either unit to extend the "run time" if needed.

I recently saw the DPP-600HD for $94 on Amazon. I snatched it up immediately. No tax, no shipping.
I have a whole house generator, but figured it might still be a cool item to have, and at that price, I'll make sure to can come up with some kind of use for it.