Using CPAP At An Altitude of 12,500'

plr66 · Post by **plr66** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:37 pm

I am very aware that this altitude is pushing (and beyond) the auto altitude-adjustment of most cpap machines. I really am hoping to hear detailed experiences and recommendations from any and all of you who have used your cpap at this height for 1-2 weeks. I live at about 3000' and have no way at all to come even close to pre-testing nearby before my trip abroad next year.

First of all, was the cpap able to function consistently at heights above its top listed auto-adjust for altitude?

Did anyone track their numbers in the mornings? If so, or if not, did you need to increase your pressure to feel okay and well-rested like you do at home with the machine?

And was there any guide that you used to help you with that adjustment before losing too many nights' sleep?

BlackSpinner · Post by **BlackSpinner** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:05 pm

One person posted recently that doing that burnt their machine right out. It was an older model that they used for travel and back up.

plr66 · Post by **plr66** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:09 pm

BlackSpinner wrote:One person posted recently that doing that burnt their machine right out. It was an older model that they used for travel and back up.

Yike. That is not what I was hoping to hear! But I need to hear more to know how to plan. Thanks BS.

GumbyCT · Post by **GumbyCT** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:19 pm

plr66 wrote:I am very aware that this altitude is pushing (and beyond) the auto altitude-adjustment of most cpap machines.

I didn't know there was a limit?

Uncle_Bob · Post by **Uncle_Bob** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:21 pm

This is not the altitude you are looking at but i took my backup S8 from my home in Phoenix (1000 ft) to the rim of the grand canyon (7000 ft) and my AHI went through the roof.

Normally i can get 3-5 AHI on the S8 but i was 20-25 AHI for my two night camping trip. And i felt it too.

I hope you have a more uplifting experience

-UB

bailachel · Post by **bailachel** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:28 pm

I'm not planning a high altitude trip, but I am curious. Does your experience suggest that if the altitude is higher, the pressure should be adjusted to be higher also to deal with the thinner air? or would that just cause more problems for the machine?

Uncle_Bob · Post by **Uncle_Bob** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:33 pm

GumbyCT wrote:
plr66 wrote:I am very aware that this altitude is pushing (and beyond) the auto altitude-adjustment of most cpap machines.
I didn't know there was a limit?

Its tough to figure out. Our hosts at cpap.com list the machine as automatic but do not specify a limit. But they also list the ability to be able to manually adjust the altitude, I have never seen how that can be set

plr66 · Post by **plr66** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:35 pm

Uncle_Bob wrote:This is not the altitude you are looking at but i took my backup S8 from my home in Phoenix (1000 ft) to the rim of the grand canyon (7000 ft) and my AHI went through the roof....I hope you have a more uplifting experience
-UB

Me too. I will not go unless I find the appropriate machine and adjustments. Plenty of time to do that, but just need more info.

plr66 · Post by **plr66** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:38 pm

bailachel wrote:I'm not planning a high altitude trip, but I am curious. Does your experience suggest that if the altitude is higher, the pressure should be adjusted to be higher also to deal with the thinner air? or would that just cause more problems for the machine?

Yes to your first question. But I don't know the answer to the second question at this point. Hoping for frequent travelers to chime in here.

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:40 pm

If this person was around he might shed some light on things.
viewtopic/t66131/High-Altitude-CPAP-Use.html

jamiswolf · Post by **jamiswolf** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:42 pm

pir66,
I live at 6,000 ft above sea level and my machine works fine. I suspect that the auto-adapting components work on a similar principle to pitot airplane instruments (altimeter and VSI). Measuring the pressure in your system vs outside air pressure. I'd let the machine alone rather then messing with the pressures. Unless you happen to have a manometer to check things out.

The other issue, and which I feel is a more important one...is the low O2 levels at that altitude/elevation. Above that elevation, a pilot in an unpressurized airplane is required to use supplementary oxygen. Unless you're some kind of super athlete, you're going to be seriously huffing and puffing.

If I were going to that elevation, I would bring along an oximeter to see if I was getting hypoxic and supplementary oxygen to use while sleeping. Your body will be stressed and treatment might not work as well as normal...and you don't want to expose yourself to some serious desats. That's how I'd handle it.
Jamis

MidnightOwl · Post by **MidnightOwl** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:43 pm

Can you contact the manufacturer?

plr66 · Post by **plr66** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:08 pm

jamiswolf wrote:pir66,
I live at 6,000 ft above sea level and my machine works fine. I suspect that the auto-adapting components work on a similar principle to pitot airplane instruments (altimeter and VSI). Measuring the pressure in your system vs outside air pressure. I'd let the machine alone rather then messing with the pressures.

I agree to a point...but am wondering what happens when the machine's upper limit of auto-adapt is say, 9000'. Does the machine burn out, or need to just have the pressure setting increased to compensate, so that I have my near-normal low AHI's.

jamiswolf wrote:The other issue, and which I feel is a more important one...is the low O2 levels at that altitude/elevation. Above that elevation, a pilot in an unpressurized airplane is required to use supplementary oxygen. Unless you're some kind of super athlete, you're going to be seriously huffing and puffing.

I feel a little dense here, but I function during day hikes at high elevation--yes I huff & puff, but not in any danger, as it's just normal. So why would I need to lug along O2 for night use? Again, I just am not connecting with this part.

jamiswolf wrote:If I were going to that elevation, I would bring along an oximeter to see if I was getting hypoxic and supplementary oxygen to use while sleeping. Your body will be stressed and treatment might not work as well as normal...and you don't want to expose yourself to some serious desats. That's how I'd handle it.
Jamis

Except that I will already be there, and will not just haul along the huge mass of O2-capablity (which I have never used) as a just-in-case scenario....Still just trying to get this logically figured out, Jamis, and I really appreciate your suggestions to get me thinking!

plr66 · Post by **plr66** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:10 pm

MidnightOwl wrote:Can you contact the manufacturer?

Unfortunately not. The factory burned down about a year ago, and my wonderful Everest travel machine is probably the best bet of any of the machines I own for this purpose.....Just no tech support to help me with this now.

jamiswolf · Post by **jamiswolf** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:12 pm

plr66,
I don't know what would happen if you went beyond the limit of the machine. I'd bet the machine would be working overtime trying to maintain pressure and couldn't. Might result in failure or possibly, like you are speculating, just lower pressures.

You could do a little survey and see what altitude Resmed and Respironics rate their machines to. That would give you some idea of industry standards.

As far as oxygen use, 12,500 ft isn't in the death zone or anything, but cpap therapy can go amiss for a variety of reasons. At altitude, apnea patients have way more central events. A cpap machine won't treat clear airway apneas. That's mostly why I suggested O2.

If you hike and sleep at those elevations regularly, go for it. Sounds like an adventure.
Jamis

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