Data From 08/26/11 and 08/27/11: Redux

[ThomasMcKean]

I don't think it is flagging the whole thing as an OA. I think only the part where the OA letters are sort of in the middle of the straight flow line. Now the rest of that segment does have flow to it. Maybe reduced but flow is there nonetheless and doesn't seem to be quite as reduced as your previous events in question. I could be wrong. I often am. I wish Respironics would give us a little box above the event telling us how long they think the event was like ResMed does. Would sure come in handy here.

The time IS flagged and I can upload that in a bit if yew would like to see it.

Meanwhile I took these three snapshots to the dr and they are going NUTS at the office trying to figure out how I could get my hands on the charts. But in my own mind, I am thinking they are just gonna have to deal with the fact that I really do give a crap about whether or not I wake up in the morning. Death does not frighten me, but there are a few things yet that I want to do before I go. Then I'll be ready.

I am off to (hopefully) get an oximeter for tonight. When I get back, I will post the apnea duration for yew if yew want to see it.

[ThomasMcKean]

Here is image showing the length of Obstructive Apnea. 169 seconds.

Apnea #032

http://www.thomasamckean.com/cpap/Data-23.jpg

[Otter]

The OA itself is flagged by the machine as being 169 seconds in length.

I don't think it is flagging the whole thing as an OA. I think only the part where the OA letters are sort of in the middle of the straight flow line. Now the rest of that segment does have flow to it. Maybe reduced but flow is there nonetheless and doesn't seem to be quite as reduced as your previous events in question. I could be wrong. I often am.

Actually, it says 159 seconds in the list of events on the left. Does Philips put the flags at the end of the event or the beginning? If they're supposed to be at the end, then Thomas took some fairly deep breaths during the alleged 159 second apnea.

I wish Respironics would give us a little box above the event telling us how long they think the event was like ResMed does. Would sure come in handy here.

They do log the length of the event. But, at least for now, you have to look up the duration in SleepyHead's sidebar. It took me a while to realize that was there too.

[Pugsy]

They do log the length of the event. But, at least for now, you have to look up the duration in SleepyHead's sidebar. It took me a while to realize that was there too.

I didn't know that was there. I saw events but did not know I could expand to see times and duration.. learn something new every day.

Number in parenthesis after time.. is that the duration of events.. How come I have a lot of (8) not this report but another? I thought they had to be 10 seconds... On mine I had 3 OA in 3 minutes (not good) but the OA flag appears to be in the middle for the most part. Obvious that the flow has ceased. Sorry to stick my data in your thread Thomas.
If I zoom in further time for straight line doesn't jive with number in parenthesis.

It is late. Massive headache. I need to go back an re-evaluate my stuff and Thomas's stuff and try to get it clear in my head. More tomorrow when I have a clear head.

[Pugsy]

Here is image showing the length of Obstructive Apnea. 169 seconds.

Well it does indeed. I can't explain it. That one doesn't look as much like a traditional OA as your other one did.
When I have time I will go back in my reports and see if I have any monster long events and see what they look like. From a quick glance 30 second OA was my worst.

[ThomasMcKean]

Receptionists at dr's office giving me grief. They are claiming the dr's do not know how to read the charts.

They say they don't understand because it isn't a complete sleep study, which is really what I have been trying to tell them. I have been telling them it is data from my past few nights and they say it can't be because I would not have access to such information so it *must* be part of a sleep study and there is nothing they can do until they see the rest of it.

But here's the thing. These dr's, they are GOOD. I don't believe the receptionists for a second.

Stay tuned...

[Otter]

Receptionists at dr's office giving me grief. They are claiming the dr's do not know how to read the charts.

They say they don't understand because it isn't a complete sleep study, which is really what I have been trying to tell them. I have been telling them it is data from my past few nights and they say it can't be because I would not have access to such information so it *must* be part of a sleep study and there is nothing they can do until they see the rest of it.

Ask if any of them would like to bet $100 that this information was not generated by your machine.

A fair number doctors distrust the logging function of CPAP machines and refuse to even look at the data. While I do agree that PSG is better, you aren't set up to do PSG at home, and there's no guarantee that all problems will show themselves the night or two you're in the lab. Hence, I hope that your doctor will at least consider questions based on your machine data.

[Otter]

Here is image showing the length of Obstructive Apnea. 169 seconds.

Ah, okay. You were talking about a different one. Still looks more like hypopnea than apnea to me. I'm very interested in what your new oximeter will have to say about these events.

[Pugsy]

Still looks more like hypopnea than apnea to me. I'm very interested in what your new oximeter will have to say about these events.

As am I. I sort of search through my reports for extra long events and found some 43 second events that look more like the 169 second one that Thomas has...where there is obviously some reduction in flow but not a complete straight line like I normally see. Mine were flagged as OA also. Haven't found any long hyponeas to compare to. I don't have many hyponeas anyway. All I can think of is that for some reason there is enough reduction in flow by Respironics sensing and definition to warrant that name. When it comes right down to it though, it doesn't really matter what that flow reduction is called.. While we can be curious about them and wonder, it doesn't matter if Hyponea or Obstructive Apnea..they are unwanted..especially if there is a desat associated with them.

[Otter]

Number in parenthesis after time.. is that the duration of events..

How come I have a lot of (8) not this report but another? I thought they had to be 10 seconds...

Thanks for pointing this out, Pugsy. I'd never noticed before, but I have hypopneas under 10 seconds. In my case, that's another S9 firmware foobar. Rather than clutter up Thomas's thread with this, though, please go over to the SH alhpa thread and tell Mark how Encore Pro (you also have that, don't you?) reports your shorty events.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65738&start=405

[archangle]

While I do agree that PSG is better, you aren't set up to do PSG at home,

PSG - The best possible data that you can't get.

[Otter]

When it comes right down to it though, it doesn't really matter what that flow reduction is called.. While we can be curious about them and wonder, it doesn't matter if Hyponea or Obstructive Apnea..they are unwanted..especially if there is a desat associated with them.

I partially agree. While both apnea and hypopnea are things we'd like to prevent, I think there is a significant difference between a three minute hypopnea and a three minute apnea. Yes, you can go look at your flow data and see what's what, but it would be nice if the Philips machine would distinguish between breathing and not breathing, wouldn't it? I think you should report this to them as a bug. No guarantee they'd do anything. ResMed has been extremely lazy about this sort of thing, and Philips may not be any better. It's worth a try, though.

[Otter]

While I do agree that PSG is better, you aren't set up to do PSG at home,

PSG - The best possible data that you can't get.

There something to be said for quantity, eh?

[Pugsy]

I'd never noticed before, but I have hypopneas under 10 seconds. In my case, that's another S9 firmware foobar. Rather than clutter up Thomas's thread with this, though, please go over to the SH alhpa thread and tell Mark how Encore Pro (you also have that, don't you?) reports your shorty events.

Pro doesn't give us event time duration at all. One has to try to eyeball the waveform which we cannot zoom in on like you can with ResMed. So of course I can use SleepyHead to do that. I only mention the 8 second thing because if we are to believe 169 second event of some kind for Thomas then we have to believe 8 second events also. If your SH event OA duration correlates with the numbers in the little boxes in ResScan then that is enough for me. I don't need to dissect it further. It is obvious from looking at my flow line that the 8 sec scored events are much shorter than my 20 second events.

Edit... never mind I saw your note in SH thread. I forgot you never could get ResScan to install. I will try to see if my event seconds on SH seem to correlate with flow time. I know they are very close. Will report further comments over in SH thread.

[ThomasMcKean]

A fair number doctors distrust the logging function of CPAP machines and refuse to even look at the data. While I do agree that PSG is better, you aren't set up to do PSG at home, and there's no guarantee that all problems will show themselves the night or two you're in the lab. Hence, I hope that your doctor will at least consider questions based on your machine data.

I am not sure I fully trust the machine either. But I think the machine combined with an oximeter can yield some useful and accurate data.

I had to jump through some hoops yesterday (and I am sure it is in my chart at Dr. now that I am a "difficult" patient), but I get an overnight oximeter on Tuesday. I did that cuz I am not thinking mine is going to arrive for a while yet and I am curious what these long events are.

Doctor personally confirmed inability to read the charts.