Dr. Krakow, salesman extraordinaire? UPDATED

[NotMuffy]

NotMuffy

Please expand

That does it!

Lock and load!

You were to quick for me - I revised the post almost immediately...

You call 4 and half hours later "immediately"?

Good thing I disn't say "Hey dsm! Bring the snake-bite kit!"

"Almost immediately!"

[dsm]

NotMuffy

Please expand

That does it!

Lock and load!

You were to quick for me - I revised the post almost immediately...

You call 4 and half hours later "immediately"?

Good thing I disn't say "Hey dsm! Bring the snake-bite kit!"

"Almost immediately!"

Nup,
It was 3 mins after I posted the 'pls expand' comment to seeing whoops - I had reversed the meaning & then changed *that* post (the pls expand one) take a peek at the original post time then the revised post time. & Yup the original 'simplified post' was 4+ hrs ago.

So are you still locked & loaded ? - (maybe I need a kevlar suit )

DSM

[Jade]

...NotMuffy is a widely recognized sleep expert and his expertise on SDB is well known here and in other forums...

Well, I can tell that he knows more about SDB than I do, and I'm curious what kind of sleep expert he is. Sleep dr? RT at a DME? Head scorer at a lab? Specifically, does he work with a client over time to resolve difficulties around xpap use and effectiveness?

On another note, with all the talk about Dr K's fondness for ASV, I wonder if that's his go-to solution for most everyone. I'm not sure it's warranted in my case. I wish it weren't so expensive even to trial it and see if it helped.

[jnk]

... widely recognized sleep expert . . .

I'm curious . . .

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65846&p=615175#p615175

[Guest]

[quote="NotMuffy"]BTW, don't be blamin' The Muffin! It was ol' Barry who once said "(With [i]x[/i]PAP therapy in co-morbid insomnia) a day without CBT is like a day without sunshine":



Has that article been corrected [i]Errata[/i]-- j/k!)?

Or is it because the profit margin on a course of CBT isn't all that hot?

I'm just sayin'...


After watching the video it seems like the profit margin in getting people to use that very expensive machine is more profitable as he is obviously contradicting himself.

[SleepingUgly]

Profitable for who? Does Dr. K own a DME?

[Mike6977]

Profitable for who? Does Dr. K own a DME?

I remember reading that Dr. K does have a contract with ResMed.

He said he's "heard" Respironics ASVs are good machines, but doesn't use them in his clinic.

Since he's not publishing his ASV data, perhaps he could publish the terms of that contract.

His contract might be as simple (and innocent) as getting bunch of free ASVs in turn for his exclusive use of Resmed ASVs in his clinic.

Or it might be somewhat more . . . interesting.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

go to:

http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:RMD

and zoom to a 5 year view.

On March 20th, 2009 ResMed's stock price was at a low of 16.15. Then it rocketed to an April 30th, 2010 price of 34.22, pretty much the range it has stayed in since.

100+% rise in about a year.

In his interview with Dr. Park, Dr. K says his clinic has been mostly treating patients with (ResMed) ASVs for the past 24 months.

Doing the math, that would mean a big turn to ASV in early-to-mid 2009.

Now what right-minded clinician turning to (and publicly promoting) high-margin ResMed ASVs in early 2009, wouldn't mind, say, getting some ResMed stock options in return?

This sort of deal happens all the time in medicine.

Of course, I'm not saying . . . just spec-yuh-latin'.

[dsm]

Profitable for who? Does Dr. K own a DME?

I remember reading that Dr. K does have a contract with ResMed.

He said he's "heard" Respironics ASVs are good machines, but doesn't use them in his clinic.

Since he's not publishing his ASV data, perhaps he could publish the terms of that contract.

His contract might be as simple (and innocent) as getting bunch of free ASVs in turn for his exclusive use of Resmed ASVs in his clinic.

Or it might be somewhat more . . . interesting.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

go to:

http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:RMD

and zoom to a 5 year view.

On March 20th, 2009 ResMed's stock price was at a low of 16.15. Then it rocketed to an April 30th, 2010 price of 34.22, pretty much the range it has stayed in since.

100+% rise in about a year.

In his interview with Dr. Park, Dr. K says his clinic has been mostly treating patients with (ResMed) ASVs for the past 24 months.

Doing the math, that would mean a big turn to ASV in early-to-mid 2009.

Now what right-minded clinician turning to (and publicly promoting) high-margin ResMed ASVs in early 2009, wouldn't mind, say, getting some ResMed stock options in return?

This sort of deal happens all the time in medicine.

Of course, I'm not saying . . . just spec-yuh-latin'.

Mike

In exasperation, I have to say that your post is so full of innuendo & speculation that one might wonder what your real role is ?
Give us some *real* facts ("I remember xyz" ???), and also give us some links of substance, please ! Else I'll call my mate the guvnor
(Jesse Ventura) & ask him to check you out for decent and worthwhile conspiracy theories to add to his show. Perhaps we could see
if Jesse likes you or, decides there isn't enough substance.

DSM

[So Well]

Mike

In exasperation, I have to say that your post is so full of innuendo & speculation that one might wonder what your real role is ?
Give us some *real* facts ("I remember xyz" ???), and also give us some links of substance, please ! Else I'll call my mate the guvnor
(Jesse Ventura) & ask him to check you out for decent and worthwhile conspiracy theories to add to his show. Perhaps we could see
if Jesse likes you or, decides there isn't enough substance.

DSM

Amen. Amen. Amen! Tell it brother DSM!

I remember reading that Dr. K does have a contract with ResMed.

He said he's "heard" Respironics ASVs are good machines, but doesn't use them in his clinic.

Since he's not publishing his ASV data, perhaps he could publish the terms of that contract.

His contract might be as simple (and innocent) as getting bunch of free ASVs in turn for his exclusive use of Resmed ASVs in his clinic.

Or it might be somewhat more . . . interesting.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

go to:

http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:RMD

and zoom to a 5 year view.

On March 20th, 2009 ResMed's stock price was at a low of 16.15. Then it rocketed to an April 30th, 2010 price of 34.22, pretty much the range it has stayed in since.

100+% rise in about a year.

In his interview with Dr. Park, Dr. K says his clinic has been mostly treating patients with (ResMed) ASVs for the past 24 months.

Doing the math, that would mean a big turn to ASV in early-to-mid 2009.

Now what right-minded clinician turning to (and publicly promoting) high-margin ResMed ASVs in early 2009, wouldn't mind, say, getting some ResMed stock options in return?

This sort of deal happens all the time in medicine.

Of course, I'm not saying . . . just spec-yuh-latin'.

For God's sake man, just go to another doctor and forget Dr. Krakow. You would be doing him a favor to strike him off your list. You do understand Krakow is putting no pressure on you to even consider him for a consultation?

Quit beating up on a man who is doing wonderful things for his patients, is making advances for all of sleep medicine, and has written a great book that has been a big help to a few of our members.

Move on to your next whine fest!

And BTW, don't use ResMed machines. Ever.

[Mike6977]

Quit beating up on a man who is doing wonderful things for his patients, is making advances for all of sleep medicine, and has written a great book that has been a big help to a few of our members.

I'm afraid you've completely missed the point in one of my threads yet again, So Well.

(sigh)

If you read my initial post and do some thinking, you'd realize I badly want Dr. K's ASV claims to be true.

I badly want a machine and protocol that will give me truly normal sleep. My current machine doesn't.

From the testimony of his two patients in this thread, I'm delighted to read that Dr. K runs his clinic admirably, and treats his patients like royalty.

Makes me even more amped to pay him a visit.

But as others in this thread have agreed, I'd like some hard evidence before I pay the kind of money a week in NM at his clinic (plus the possible follow up sleep studies) would cost.

Is that sentiment so radical that you need to get so . . . emotional:

And BTW, don't use ResMed machines. Ever.

Will you at least allow me to buy options on their stock?



__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

give us some links of substance, please

Hi dsm. It's my nightly wake-break, so I can't search for them now, but if you want the links to the following, I'll post them later.

Did you really think I made them up?

"I remember reading that Dr. K does have a contract with ResMed. He said he's "heard" Respironics ASVs are good machines, but doesn't use them in his clinic.

Dr K can both be a great doctor, and have a lucrative contract with ResMed.

But I'm genuinely sorry if you felt my style was too blunt or even over the top.

..............................................

Here, let me try a different style:

It was ol' Barry who once said "(With xPAP therapy in co-morbid insomnia) a day without CBT is like a day without sunshine":

Has that article been corrected (i.e., Errata-- j/k!)?

Or is it because the profit margin on a course of CBT isn't all that hot?

I'm just sayin'...

Mike

[jnk]

I remember reading that Dr. K does have a contract with ResMed.

From what I've read, Mike6977 appears to me to have a contract out on K and ResMed.

He said he's "heard" Respironics ASVs are good machines, but doesn't use them in his clinic.

Most all places tend to use only one brand, from what I've read.

. . . . ResMed's stock price . . .

You mean the company made money for its stockholders? How shocking! How evil!

There are plenty of things about ResMed the company I don't like. Their having made money for people is NOT one of them. Name one company that ain't tryin' to do that.

. . . just spec-yuh-latin'.

I love a good conspiracy theory as well as the next guy. I've got a few myself. And I know of no smart, big-name docs that bad-mouth ResMed products in public, as far as that goes. But if I were having trouble with my therapy, K is one doc I'd consider worth paying to get myself some help. Same with Park. And hopefully they would be helpful to me despite the fact that I frequent a board where people often dog them. Seems to me that the most popular and respected always get the most flak. When you have the reputation of being a miracle-worker, a patient will always be disappointed when not feeling like one of the miracles.

Disclosure: I use a ResMed machine.

But then again I have also dabbled in Sony and Apple products too, despite the things I don't like about those companies either.

[JeffH]

Profitable for who? Does Dr. K own a DME?

He told me he is not connected to any DME.

[mck]

Sorry to interrupt this truly interesting discussion of ASV, CO2, etc., but I felt I had to amend something I posted earlier.

I would like to know your opinion of Dr. Park. I have been thinking of making an appointment to consult with him. It will be a big expense for me but if he is very good it will be worth it.

The more I think about my consult with Dr. Park, the less happy I am about it.

I had spoken with Dr. Park over the phone prior to my appointment, and he knew I had no sleep study for him to review.

Lacking such a study, Dr. Park had no way of knowing whether I even had SDB or not

After my consult with him, he tried to convince the sleep lab I was going to use that they should employ one of Dr. Krakow's protocols.

I'm sure their reaction was: "Huh? Based on what?"

During our initial telephone conversation, Dr. Park should have said to me: "Take the sleep study first. See if you have SDB. If you do, try the therapy they recommend to you for a while.

If the therapy doesn't work doesn't, then book a visit with me. After looking at your sleep report, I'll see if I can recommend some doctors who might be able to help you."

Instead, he booked a consult, took my money (he was out of network), and in retrospect, gave me little information of value.

Thus, despite his very agreeable and friendly persona, I must reluctantly rate Dr.Park as "businessman first, clinician second".

I also have been considering a consult with DR. PARK but after reading your post I have to really reconsider.
Thank you for taking the time.

[jnk]

So the big complaint against Park is that he agreed to see you when you asked and then wouldn't do it for free? Wow. Someone should take his license, huh?

Many people go to Park because they don't want to go the standard route. He often, according to him, does encourage them to give the standard route the full shot, but helps them in other practical ways along the way.

If you didn't get the information you wanted out of Park during the consultation with him, it is only because you didn't ask him the right questions. And I would not blame HIM for that. He can only answer the questions you ask.

One of the particularly nice things about Park is that he isn't a sleep doctor, so he doesn't have to tow the company line on anything. That makes him an alternative in some ways, but one fully in touch with the mainstream at the same time. I consider that rare, myself, in a good way.

For example, if you tell him you want to explore diet adjustments and acupunture to deal with your SDB, he won't bat an eye. That is your choice, and he'll work with you on it. He won't tell you it is a cure, but then he won't laugh at you either. He will tell you what he thinks your best option is, but he will follow your lead on your choices. Try that with your average sleep doc, and you may end up in a straightjacket.

I don't know Dr. Park on a personal basis, but I've met him and heard him speak on sleep issues on a number of occasions. He knows his stuff, in my opinion. Is he worth what he charges? I don't know. But if I was gonna see him, I'd sure have all my questions lined up to get the help I wanted--that's for sure.

[dsm]

Mike

You must have realized at some point how provocative your post(s) was(were). There is (to me) clearly an element of 'bagging' both Dr K & Dr P - as the thread has progressed there has been little to back up any serious criticism of either. NotMuffy has highlighted an issue he has with Dr K re past studies & by NotMuffy's measure that leaves Dr K wanting but even then that relates to early research in a fast changing field of health medicine.

Re Dr K & ASVs - that bottom line there surely is already agreed, that the people likely to go to Dr K are people who have failed other forms of therapy & thus it is highly probable that ASV (if not BiLevel) will be his solution.

Is Dr K a miracle worker, I don't think so. Is he a committed xPAP researcher (of xPAP use) seems to me he is. One recommendation Dr K used to make was for very wide gaps between epap & ipap when recommending BiLevel use (tuning out the last flow limitations) & everything I know (in my aging brain) warns that large *consistent* gaps between epap & ipap promote hyperventilation & thus bad side effects - but to give him his dues, he was the one with the patient & the machine & the lab data measuring the results so I would have to give him the benefit of the doubt on that even if my doubts remain about the notion of employing wide PS settings. He surely has to know a ton more than I do about the matter.

So in this thread your intentions may be good but may also have got lost in the flow.

Cheers DSM