neck fat and OSA

[nmevan]

I'm wondering if it is possible to measure neck fat inside your throat?

if one were to lose weight, would some of the fat that one might lose be the possible culprit causing OSA?

how about the muscles of the neck...would excessive muscles, or a neck injury causing the muscles to remain taught, be enough to cause OSA?

thanks

evan

[avi123]

if one were to lose weight, would some of the fat that one might lose be the possible culprit causing OSA?


evan

Hi, I don't know the answer to your first question. But for the 2nd question I know this: my sleep Doc told me that he managed to get some of his patients off CPAPs. Those patients were young and obese, and those who lost 20% and more of their weights and the loss also included the fat tissues inside their throats, managed to get rid of their machines. The meaning was that just to lose 20% of weight was not enough unless it also included the throat fatty tissues.

[nmevan]

thanks

I guess another question might be...if one loses weight, does the fat inside the neck automatically diminish along with all the other fat...say the belly fat? Or is it a type of fat that never leaves?

[billbolton]

if one were to lose weight, would some of the fat that one might lose be the possible culprit causing OSA?

There was some research (from the Woolcock Institute of Medical Research I think.... http://www.woolcock.org.au/) I saw recently that indicated that there was not as strong a causal link between neck size and OSA as had been commonly assumed. I don't have the citation handy, but will see if I can find it.

Cheers,

Bill

[avi123]

if one were to lose weight, would some of the fat that one might lose be the possible culprit causing OSA?

There was some research (from the Woolcock Institute of Medical Research I think.... http://www.woolcock.org.au/) I saw recently that indicated that there was not as strong a causal link between neck size and OSA as had been commonly assumed. I don't have the citation handy, but will see if I can find it.

Cheers,

Bill

Bill, do you think that the latest info about the neck size vs. OSA
that you mentioned from Woolcock Institute of Medical Research is here:

I can't get to read it without being a member or paying for access.


Craniofacial Morphology in Obstructive Sleep Apnea: A Review
Lee, Richard W. W.; Sutherland, Kate; Cistulli, Peter A.

Clinical Pulmonary Medicine. 17(4):189-195, July 2010.


**************************************************
another source
From WebMD:

Having a large neck size (17 inches or greater in men and 16 inches or greater in women)

[chunkyfrog]

Some fat is 'stickier'; i.e.; the fat on my belly wants to hang around, but the fat on my 'chest' is not so tenacious.

[Wulfman]

if one were to lose weight, would some of the fat that one might lose be the possible culprit causing OSA?

There was some research (from the Woolcock Institute of Medical Research I think.... http://www.woolcock.org.au/) I saw recently that indicated that there was not as strong a causal link between neck size and OSA as had been commonly assumed. I don't have the citation handy, but will see if I can find it.

Cheers,

Bill

I've had suspicions about that for a long time. Even though I've always had a large neck, I'm convinced that the root of my OSA issues has been in my nasal passages. And, from my readings here, I think that's more common than the neck (collapse) thing. I believe that there are probably more "obstruction" issues from people sleeping on their backs.


Den

[EricinNC]

I'm wondering if it is possible to measure neck fat inside your throat?

if one were to lose weight, would some of the fat that one might lose be the possible culprit causing OSA?

how about the muscles of the neck...would excessive muscles, or a neck injury causing the muscles to remain taught, be enough to cause OSA?

thanks

evan

My OSA and my mental and physical functioning all improve a lot when I diet down and my neck circumference breaks under 17 inches. The lowest Ive gotten it is around 16.5 inches and thats the best Ive felt so far. The highest its been is around 18 inches and thats the worst Ive felt.

Thats why I get mad when I read on sites like this that losing weight wont help OSA. That is a bunch of baloney. Its the opposite if you are overweight. The more you lose, the better your OSA will get. Dont let anyone tell you otherwise.

Also, the people who are drunks and drink at night and need an APAP, they will never recover until they get rid of the booze and the sedative drugs.

Lose weight plus CPAP=get a lot better, both physically and mentally.

Eric

[scrapper]

Lose weight plus CPAP=get a lot better, both physically and mentally.

Yes and No...........losing weight in most instances will probably lower apneas, but it doesn't change the anatomical structure of your breathing passages or jaw size that are the primary factors in osa. It absolutely will not change your brain to eliminate central apneas.............

This is a saw that's been reviewed in depth on other threads..........no absolute answers at all.....no easy answers.

I do agree however, that losing weight is a good thing...............do I do it or preach it??????????

[Lizistired]

I've had suspicions about that for a long time. Even though I've always had a large neck, I'm convinced that the root of my OSA issues has been in my nasal passages. And, from my readings here, I think that's more common than the neck (collapse) thing. I believe that there are probably more "obstruction" issues from people sleeping on their backs.
Den

I agree, my snoring is also in my sinuses. My doctor ignored this suggestion.
The other issue I have is that prior to cpap, I would awaken feeling as though my tongue was glued to the roof of my mouth.
Not dry mouth. I didn't mouth breathe. (Of course my doctor disagreed.) But as though I had been sucking or swallowing all night.
I think blockage of the nasal passages with a closed mouth also may cause negative pressure that results in GERD (that developed) with the lungs basically acting as a pump.

[swfslovenian]

My doctor was encouraging. He told me that by losing 10% of my body weight I could reduce the AHI by 50%. Knowing that I need to be five or below gives me a pretty good idea of how much weight I must lose. It is not a guarantee, but he told me he has seen people reduce their weight and get off of CPAP and encouraged me to do this.

[EricinNC]

All the OSA literature you will read online from "official" places like the NIH website, the Mayo Clinic website, WebMD, the Cleveland clinic website, etc all says the same thing. Lose weight IF you are overweight and your OSA will probably, almost certainly improve. On top of this,all the literature your sleep doc will give you will say the same thing...lose weight IF you are overweight and your OSA will probably improve.

This has certainly been my personal experience. I originally got dxed and titrated at 225 lbs. I lost twenty pounds, was at 204 to 206 for a long time on my old APAP and my OSA DID dramatically improve. The best Ive ever felt in a long, long time.

Now, Ive gained most of that weight back, plus Im using different gear that seems "wimpy" to me compared to my old gear...and I feel like doggy doo doo again.

Anybody who tells you that losing weight IF you are significantly overweight or that decreasing your neck circumference will not decrease OSA symptoms...they have a hole in their head.

Eric

[Mr Bill]

I attended a seminar on sleep apnea recently. One of the slides and discussion really caught my attention. There are nerves that are supposed to keep the airway clear by retaining muscle tone in the airway. The speaker said it is loss of this tone upon falling asleep which causes OSA. When the patient wakes, the tone is restored but when they fall asleep it fails and the airway collapses. In non OSA patients this tone is retained even in sleep.

[avi123]

thanks

I guess another question might be...if one loses weight, does the fat inside the neck automatically diminish along with all the other fat...say the belly fat? Or is it a type of fat that never leaves?

Reply:

No. In those obese OSA persons the neck sizes are larger than in obese non-OSA persons. So if you take a group of obese persons with siimilar belly sizes and ask them to lose weight then those with OSA tendancy will stay with larger neck sizes. Saying it differently: in obese persons the ratio of Neck Size over the BMI is larger in those predisposed to OSA.

[EricinNC]

thanks

I guess another question might be...if one loses weight, does the fat inside the neck automatically diminish along with all the other fat...say the belly fat? Or is it a type of fat that never leaves?

Reply:

No. In those obese OSA persons the neck sizes are larger than in obese non-OSA persons. So if you take a group of obese persons with siimilar belly sizes and ask them to lose weight then those with OSA tendancy will stay with larger neck sizes. Saying it differently: in obese persons the ratio of Neck Size over the BMI is larger in those predisposed to OSA.

Check it here:

Eur Respir J. 1992 Apr;5(4):377-81.
Differences in abdominal and neck circumferences in patients with and without obstructive sleep apnoea.
Hoffstein V, Mateika S.
St. Michael's Hospital, University of Toronto, Canada.
Comment in:
• Eur Respir J. 1992 Apr;5(4):375-6.



Abstract


We have recently shown that patients with sleep apnoea have thicker necks than non-apnoeic snoring controls. However, it was not clear whether this difference simply reflects the fact that apnoeic patients are more obese than the non-apnoeic ones, or whether it represents a preferential distribution of fat over the neck region compared to the abnormal region. We therefore measured the neck and abdominal circumferences in a large group of 670 patients suspected of having sleep apnoea, all of whom had full nocturnal polysomnography, including measurement of snoring. We divided these patients into apnoeic and non-apnoeic groups based on the apnoea/hypopnoea index (AHI) of 10. Apnoeic patients had significantly higher body mass index (BMI), neck, and abdominal circumferences than non-apnoeic controls. We then matched apnoeic and non-apnoeic patients exactly, one-for-one for BMI and age; this procedure left us with 156 patients in each group. Abdominal circumferences were similar, but the neck circumference was significantly higher in apnoeic patients (41.2 +/- 3.5 cm vs 39.1 +/- 3.7 cm, p less than 0.0001). Multiple stepwise linear regression analysis revealed that neck circumference and BMI correlated significantly with apnoea (multiple R2 = 0.27, p less than 0.001) and snoring (multiple R2 = 0.19, p less than 0.001). We conclude that obese patients with sleep apnoea have fatter necks than equally obese non-apnoeic snorers, and that the neck circumference could be a significant determinant of apnoea and snoring..


Link:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1563498

Who cares about abstracts...those are mostly for research doctors, not for patients. Use some common sense instead and realize that losing weight and decreasing neck circumference DOES improve OSA!

Sheeesh!

Eric