nocturia not getting better

[christinepi]

There's nothing wrong with me medically, but I have to go to the bathroom 2-3 times a night, sometimes more. I recognize the connection between OSA and nocturia. I started on CPAP 3 weeks ago, and, if anything, the nocturia has gotten worse. Is this normal, just one more thing that will take time before things get better (like actually having more energy)? I have no mask fit problems, though I have terrible dry mouth, which seems to be greatly helped by Biotene mouth gel, and some ferocious nose itch on occasion.

[sister]

Hi, are you sleeping well? You said you have dry mouth, that has been bothering me lately and when something like dry mouth causes me to wake up then I have to go to the bathroom.
If I am sleeping well,I don't go at all.
GOOD LUCK!

[christinepi]

I guess I can't say that I'm sleeping well all throughout the night. But there are stretches of 2-3h where I seem to be asleep (my AHI always hovers at around 0.2) w/o problems and the bladder urge is still there. Maybe I have to give this more time, especially the dry mouth thing. Last night I didn't have dry mouth for the first time (I used the gel for the first time) but I still woke up often (the bladder...). I guess what I'm asking is whether nocturia can ultimately be overcome once sleep debt has been overcome and the machine finally is able to deliver all the benefits.

[avi123]

There's nothing wrong with me medically, but I have to go to the bathroom 2-3 times a night, sometimes more. I recognize the connection between OSA and nocturia. I started on CPAP 3 weeks ago, and, if anything, the nocturia has gotten worse. Is this normal, just one more thing that will take time before things get better (like actually having more energy)? I have no mask fit problems, though I have terrible dry mouth, which seems to be greatly helped by Biotene mouth gel, and some ferocious nose itch on occasion.

Nocturia could come from diabetes. Are you sure that you don't have it?

See here:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 003141.htm

I use Biotene Spray when I have dry mouth. In my case I use a Nasal Mirage Gel mask where my mouth is exposed. So I just spray without removing the mask.

[christinepi]

There's nothing wrong with me medically, but I have to go to the bathroom 2-3 times a night, sometimes more. I recognize the connection between OSA and nocturia. I started on CPAP 3 weeks ago, and, if anything, the nocturia has gotten worse. Is this normal, just one more thing that will take time before things get better (like actually having more energy)? I have no mask fit problems, though I have terrible dry mouth, which seems to be greatly helped by Biotene mouth gel, and some ferocious nose itch on occasion.

Nocturia could come from diabetes. Are you sure that you don't have it?

See here:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 003141.htm

I use Biotene Spray when I have dry mouth. In my case I use a Nasal Mirage Gel mask where my mouth is exposed. So I just spray without removing the mask.

Yeah, I'm sure it's not diabetes. I only have nocturia a few weeks worth at a time, and since I'm going through menopause, I have this feeling it could be related to that, because I sometimes feel bloated during those few weeks. Although I do not feel bloated at all currently. ??

[Gerald]

You might want to check your blood pressure in the middle of the night....the minute you wake up needing to urinate. High BP will cause multiple potty stops during the night....so, you need to eleminate that possibility.

Also, be sure that your cpap machine is data capable....and that you're running the reports every day. That'll help you control the leak rate....and make sure that your AHI is staying under 2.5 night after night. I fully realize that the medical industry says that AHI under 5.0 is OK....but, I disagree. My experience has shown me that a nightly AHI above 2.5 means I must make a potty stop in the middle of the night.....and my O2 saturation is too low.

Another suggestion......purchase a recording oximeter with good software.....and check your O2 saturation levels all night. If your O2 level drops below 93% during the night, you need to find out "why"...and fix the problem. Following is a link to the oximeter that I use. It's good equipment and comes with good software. http://www.turnermedical.com/SPO_PulseO ... imeter.htm

Finally, you might want to change to a mask that can stop all leaks. I use an "Aeiomed Headrest Mask" and seal my lips to prevent air leaks. I have no problems with dry mouth...unless my lip-seal job fails for some reason (rarely).

Keep working on the problem.....and you WILL succeed!

[kteague]

One thing I found about sleeping better is that any edema that has accumulated during the day flushes out during the night, and it's gotta go somewhere! I can go to bed with legs that look like tree stumps, but get up in the morning with well defined ankles. I can pretty much predict the first potty run will be at between 1.5 and 2.5 hours of sleep. When my sugar is down, that could be the only run. If it's up, I can count on 3 trips.

I was not diabetic when first diagnosed with OSA. The potty runs were every 20 minutes or so all night. I know that was the OSA. Once on cpap, when I was not edematous, and I was not diabetic, I had zero potty runs for an extended period of time.

Guess it all depends on the cause how much it will improve.

[christinepi]

Also, be sure that your cpap machine is data capable....and that you're running the reports every day. That'll help you control the leak rate....and make sure that your AHI is staying under 2.5 night after night. I fully realize that the medical industry says that AHI under 5.0 is OK....but, I disagree. My experience has shown me that a nightly AHI above 2.5 means I must make a potty stop in the middle of the night.....and my O2 saturation is too low.
Keep working on the problem.....and you WILL succeed!

This is where I get totally lost. I don't have the faintest idea what "data capable" and "running reports" means. Or the 95% percentile, the leak rate, or what my software is. Or... I know about pressing both the Info button and the Set up button at the same time to get to more info. But I can't find any of the above. Most importantly, I don't know how to find the info to find the info!! Everybody on this site seems to be so tech savvy, and I can't even do the simplest things.

[M.D.Hosehead]

I guess what I'm asking is whether nocturia can ultimately be overcome

If nocturia is due to sleep apnea awakenings (in other words, you wake up from apnea and then notice your bladder is full), it should get better.

But there are many possible causes for nocturia, for example:

waking up because you are anxious, depressed or a light sleeper and noticing a full bladder
movement of edema fluid as kteague said
incomplete emptying of bladder, for example due to enlarged prostate (men) and relaxed pelvic outlet (women)
diuretics

Those obviously won't be fixed by CPAP.

Everybody on this site seems to be so tech savvy, and I can't even do the simplest things.

Everyone started at zero and got savvy by reading.
Start with the wiki (the light bulb at the top of the screen). Be persistent. Post questions.

[Slartybartfast]

How's your sodium intake and your blood pressure? High blood pressure and high sodium levels can trigger release of ANP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrial_natriuretic_peptide which causes the kidneys to dump sodium to the urine, causing frequent urination.

Usually, starting on CPAP reduces ANP levels, and the need for nighttime urination. I've managed to get two friends to try CPAP again, after giving up on it years ago, by mentioning that factoid to them.

[KatieW]

This is where I get totally lost. I don't have the faintest idea what "data capable" and "running reports" means. Or the 95% percentile, the leak rate, or what my software is. Or... I know about pressing both the Info button and the Set up button at the same time to get to more info. But I can't find any of the above. Most importantly, I don't know how to find the info to find the info!! Everybody on this site seems to be so tech savvy, and I can't even do the simplest things.

Yes, when you 1st start cpap therapy, there is an overwhelming amount of new information. Keep reading here, and gradually it will make sense to you. The CPAP Wicki has good information for newbies.

Do you have: 1. ResScan software, and 2. Clinical Manual for S9?

[sleepycarol]

Dry mouth could be from mouth breathing. If you are using the mask in your profile -- it is a full face mask. Do you notice it leaking around the seal -- you should be able to feel the air escaping, notice raspberry sounds, etc. If so adjust your mask, make sure it isn't too loose -- but do not over tighten it as that can cause leaks as well.

You should be able to access your data via the LCD screen. I don't have your machine, but an older version of the S8 Vantage. It can give you info to help you determine leaks, AHI (how many apneas/hyponeas you are having).

I was totally clueless when I first started but by sticking with the forum, I was able to learn much about the therapy and how to adjust things to get the most benefit from it. Best thing is too read and read -- don't worry it will take time and no one expects you to remember everything in one day.

As far as nightly trips, have you had your urine tested for a possible UTI? Uninary tract infections might cause you to get up with that feeling of having to go. If you didn't have problems with nightly trips in the past, it could just be you body getting used to treatment in conjunction with the menopause you mentioned.

Others aren't really helped with nightly trips at night -- I happen to be one. I have a small bladder and permanent nerve damage and so have to go regularly even at night.

As others as have mentioned other health conditions need to be ruled out as well, so a trip to the doctor might be helpful.

[christinepi]

This is where I get totally lost. I don't have the faintest idea what "data capable" and "running reports" means. Or the 95% percentile, the leak rate, or what my software is. Or... I know about pressing both the Info button and the Set up button at the same time to get to more info. But I can't find any of the above. Most importantly, I don't know how to find the info to find the info!! Everybody on this site seems to be so tech savvy, and I can't even do the simplest things.

Yes, when you 1st start cpap therapy, there is an overwhelming amount of new information. Keep reading here, and gradually it will make sense to you. The CPAP Wicki has good information for newbies.

Do you have: 1. ResScan software, and 2. Clinical Manual for S9?

1. How can I find out what my software is?

2. I have read the clinical manual back and forth several times, and I still don't know how to find the info I need... Like "data capable" and percentile leak rates and all that. If I knew my software, would that give me (and the forum) more info? Maybe a no brainer thing to do would be my DME technician...

Thanks for all the other suggestions about diabetes, high blood pressure etc; I don't have any of that, according to my GP; if anything, my blood pressure is bordering on the too low end. I'm also physically very salt aversive and eat less salt than most people. But anxiety could certainly play into this, as well as mild edema.

[suenos]

christinepi,

I understand were you are coming from...I had no idea that cpap regimen was so involved. I just thought that once you get the machine, put it on and bam...you're ok. Little did I know how complex this really is. Not insurmountable of course....just kinda steep.
Not much help from my MD on this so this place is awesome with so much information! best of luck

Also, be sure that your cpap machine is data capable....and that you're running the reports every day. That'll help you control the leak rate....and make sure that your AHI is staying under 2.5 night after night. I fully realize that the medical industry says that AHI under 5.0 is OK....but, I disagree. My experience has shown me that a nightly AHI above 2.5 means I must make a potty stop in the middle of the night.....and my O2 saturation is too low.
Keep working on the problem.....and you WILL succeed!

This is where I get totally lost. I don't have the faintest idea what "data capable" and "running reports" means. Or the 95% percentile, the leak rate, or what my software is. Or... I know about pressing both the Info button and the Set up button at the same time to get to more info. But I can't find any of the above. Most importantly, I don't know how to find the info to find the info!! Everybody on this site seems to be so tech savvy, and I can't even do the simplest things.

[christinepi]

Yes, and I would like to add that without getting actively involved in the CPAP world and with this forum how would *anybody wade* through all this?? Without the internet and without support from the medical community we'd all be out in the cold. It's amazing. What do people do who are 70 and older (arbitrary number, no offense) and/or not net savvy and of a generation that doesn't dare to challenge doctors for information??