logrolling

[restless logroller]

Hi, Very new to the CPAP machine. Mask is comfortable. 10cm feels good once it ramps up. Fall asleep in normal time and I think I am asleep with minimum wakeups for about two hours. The problem is, if I am in one position for more than 30 minutes, I go nuts. And being asleep for 2 hours makes my whole body ache in the same position. I tried putting a tempurpedic topper on and I "logroll" less just because its more difficult but I still feel the need to keep moving. During my interview and CPAP consult, I was told this is because of the apnea and it will go away when I get on the machine. Problem is, the machine limits my rolling around and requires me to way up and make lots of adjustments. I am going to give this a chance but I think I was better off when I was waking up subconsciously 17 times an hour. Is there any common cure for this? Should I get rid of the bed and get a treadmill to sleep on? Maybe a motrin before bed?

[Julie]

If you mean your legs (vs the rest of you) want and do move (contract) a lot, there's a name for it called "restless legs syndrome" and there's more to it than being simply an annoyance. If you do a search on this forum, you'll read a lot about it and can then come back to this thread to talk more. It would be very helpful to all of us if you go the the "User control panel" on the left, right above the postings, click on Profile and fill out the complete names of your machine and mask so we'll know automatically what you have (see info under my note) when you post, and maybe be able to comment more meaningfully. If it's just a matter of being generally a bit rigid because you have the mask on and feel you can't move around because of it, there are special pillows to help, so describe what you think is happening as well as you can.

[Janknitz]

It would help to know what equipment you are using. For example, certain masks are more stable if you move around in the bed than others--we might be able to make recommendations if we have some idea what you are using now.

You might want to look at hose management systems which hang the hose out of your way. That way, when you move in bed, the hose moves with you and is much less likely to dislodge the mask. Also, you don't have to wake up enough to position the hose.

It's normal to have disrupted sleep at first. This should calm down over time as you get used to sleeping with this thing strapped to your face.

[Mary T]

Hi- do you think you mgiht be getting a bit claustrophobic .. i mean a lot ofus get these kinds of feelings getting used to the new equipment.. and new way of sleeping. then that could have other solutions, i.e. wearing comfy loose clothing to bed or anything to feel less constricted, but also it does sound like restless legs like another kind poster above said.

[brazospearl]

One of the snags I had when I first started therapy was just like this. I hadn't slept without thrashing about for so long that my body hurt from staying in one position for so long. A couple of acetaminophen before bed helped a lot. I still roll around at night, but not nearly as much as I did pre-cpap. You might want to look into hose management solutions as well. Having my hose run over the top of my head really helped me.

[miketech]

I was also going to suggest that you get something to suspend the hose from the head board. That will give a little bit more freedom to turn to the left or right side.

I too, still wake up two or three times a night to change position. I used to actually feel my arms go numb, when being in one position too long. However I now try to exercise several times a week, to increase my muscle tone, and I find that it helps. It also makes me a little more physically tired, and that helps me sleep better.

It's a new lifetime health regimen now, to get all the right combination of cpap sleep accessories that work best for me: pillow, hose covers, mask strap cover, strap tightness, humidifier setting, room temperature, exercise, bedtime, etc. I have heard this practice is called "Sleep etiquette".

[kteague]

Your logrolling description could have been mine at one time. What did your sleep study say about limb movements? Does anyone observe you sleeping? Would be nice to get a detailed description of you moving about at night. At one time I videotaped myself to see what my nights looked like. I have Restless Leg Syndrome and also Periodic Limb Movement Disorder, and move a lot in my sleep. Often I'd wake, apparently at the end of a limb movement, and it felt to me like I was just changing positions. The RLS/PLMD made me very irritated with the CPAP mask, headgear and hose. They got the blame even though they weren't the source of my irritation. Maybe you don't have the same issues, but you are wise to not accept your current state of sleep as the best you can expect. Hope you find and resolve your issues and begin getting better sleep.

[restless logroller]

Hi Everyone. Thanks for the info and requests. I updated my profile so hopefully it shows my equipment now. I have always pumped my feet at the ankle joint. Its relaxing to me and it doesn't seem to affect my sleep (maybe my wife's a little though). If I am still doing it, there is no issues with that affecting my CPAP. I am not terribly concerned with it but it might be related to my tossing. I call it logrolling because I always turn 90 degrees to the right every few minutes and the CPAP prevents that. Thats my main concern. I sleep better with the machine for a little while but my back aches really bad if I don't keep it in motion. I have tried several different matrasses and found the current firm independent pocketed coils with a 3 inch memory foam topper works the best but can be hot. My sleep study Dr. didn't say anything about movements but if you had the same sleep study I had, you couldn't move. I was pretty miserable there with the EKG and the EEG wires wrapped around me. I am currently taking celebrex for some post knee surgery arthritis and it seems to help my back and my feet (I have plantar fascitis too). I have found that ibuprofen helps me relax in bed but its rough to take every day in the doses I was taking (hence the celebrex). Hydration helps too but then I have to get up to pee and I am sure most of this community knows there is no going back to sleep once you are up if you have sleep disorders. With the advice given, I have routed my hose over my headboard and It helps me turn to my right a little. I am grateful for any advice I can get. I am especially grateful if I can find a way to not need to logroll anymore. Was thinking about building a bladder system in my bed that randomly inflates pillows under different areas of my body to change pressure areas and promote slight movement in the joints. Oh yeah, I almost forgot to share one thing that seems to make a difference that everyone can benefit from. Calcium. I found that taking a good calcium supplement with my water before bed, I am more relaxed. I highly recommend that for everyone. Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction for my logrolling. Thanks everyone!

[Gerald]

Logroller.........

I think you may have revealed the source of your problem in your last post.....heat.

My bet is that you are rolling in order to dissipate body heat that builds up between you and the mattress.

Presently, I'm experimenting with a heat reduction system on a new mattress. After talking at length with a mattress saleslady that I trust, I learned that the less expensive poly-foam mattress with open coils (not the Beautyrest individual pocket type) is best for me.

Additionally, I stacked (6) pancake type computer fans into a sort of "turbo" unit.....and hooked them to a spare computer power supply. The output of the fans is connected to a 4" flex hose that directs the airflow into the center of the mattress. In other words, my mattress has its own CPAP machine that pushes air outward....thereby getting rid of body moisture and body heat.

The system works quite well....and my honey can tell the difference when it's not operating.

[Janknitz]

Was thinking about building a bladder system in my bed that randomly inflates pillows under different areas of my body to change pressure areas and promote slight movement in the joints

.

They make these already. They are called "Alternating Pressure Pads" and you can purchase or rent them at your local DME for MUCH money. They also have complete mattresses that inflate and deflate different parts at intervals to prevent the pressure that causes bed sores. They are used for bedbound patients that have a hard time turning or being turned. You MIGHT even be able to get insurance to cover it, but don't count on it as you are not bedbound. Or maybe your DME can sell you a used unit.

Now that you've posted your equipment, time for lecture #1. You do NOT have a data capable machine. That means that if you have any problems with your therapy, there is NO way to tell what the problem might be, because the only thing that your machine reports is whether or not you are using it. No leak data, no information on whether or not it's properly handling your apnic events, not even a way to tell if your mask might be leaking without you being aware of it. If you care about your therapy and your success with CPAP, you should call the DME Monday and arrange to replace the dumb brick they foisted on you with a data capable machine. There's a sucker born every minute, and your DME made you one.

Actually, before you call the DME, call your insurance company to make sure you understand what they will cover. See my blog here for a list of questions to ask: http://maskarrayed.wordpress.com/what-y ... me-part-i/.

Sorry to sound stern, but friends don't let friends get machines without data.

[brazospearl]

I second JanKnitz stern admonition! You simply MUST get a fully data-capable machine. Your current machine doesn't track any data, and without the data NOBODY can accurately monitor your therapy--not you, not the DME, not the doctor. It's the equivalent of handing a person with diabetes a meter that only shows whether or not the patient did a stick and touched blood, but not what the blood revealed. That would be stupid, and any supplier who tried that would be guilty of putting the patient's life in danger. Your DME has placed your life in danger as well. This problem needs to be solved as soon as possible.

[kteague]

I have always pumped my feet at the ankle joint. Its relaxing to me and it doesn't seem to affect my sleep (maybe my wife's a little though).

Is your foot pumping just while awake, or does you wife say you move your feet in your sleep in addition to the logrolling?

but my back aches really bad if I don't keep it in motion.

Do you have a diagnosis on your back issues? Wondering if physical therapy might appropriately condition it and maybe reduce discomfort.

My sleep study Dr. didn't say anything about movements

Do you have a copy of your sleep studies? Ideally the doctor not saying anything would mean there were none on the reports, but I'd want to read that with my own eyes, and have easy access to the info should more questions arise.

there is no going back to sleep once you are up if you have sleep disorders.

Hopefully that won't always be a problem for you. Sometimes it does improve - did for me.

I have routed my hose over my headboard and It helps me turn to my right a little.

I used to flip-flop like a fish out of water. Seems using CPAP should not restrain you this much. Are you too far from the machine and maybe need a longer hose? Have you read any of the hose management threads?

I am especially grateful if I can find a way to not need to logroll anymore.

I think that's a good place to put your focus, and it starts with finding out why. Maybe your reports will hold some clues. Get them, read them, and let us know if anything jumps out at you.

[miketech]

When I had my sleep study, they glued wires to my shins to record whether I was moving my leg muscles while sleeping. The answer would show up in the report as to whether or not there was any RLS.

Look on ebay- there are hundreds of kinds of alternating pressure mattresses for sale:

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid ... Categories


Mike

[restless logroller]

Hi everyone,
I few more days into it and I still am not sleeping that well. With all your advice, I have found some comfort and I have started a dialog with the 3 tiers involved in getting me this machine (insurance, clinic and supplier). Its as though they are all 6 year olds and don't want to accept responsibility though. I am being advised to call the other ones which isn't getting anywhere. I am staying on them. Also, through this, it is being debated that I might have a mask too big. The supplier says its a perfect fit but a seperate respiratory tech (my neighbor) is telling me its not supposed to fit over the lip and the eye. I think she is right cause It sometimes leaks into my eyes or into my mouth and that wakes me up for sure. That and she is the only one that has really looked at it while on my face. I am for now tightening down the straps but thats not so comfortable. As for the heat thing, whoever posted that one is a genius. I have since taken off the temperpedic topper and am not as achy when I don't move. But I am still on the move at night. A few years ago, I threw out my back and it seemed to help then but my back is fine now and I can sleep without it. I think that will help. I do wish I had a data capable machine though so it could be pin pointed to the problem but it appears that my apnea is considered moderate and those are supposed to be for serious cases. I only had 17 awakenings an hour and my snoring was considered mild. With a proper fitting mask and a cooler bed, I am looking forward to some relief. I will continue to stay on the insurance and the clinic about a data machine too. Thanks for all the advice. BTW - check out this bed I found online. Doesn't look like it could be a good mattress cause its so cheap but I like the cooling idea. Maybe one day we will be able to find this in a quality mattress. Here is a link http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/09 ... gets/2.htm

[cflame1]

I do wish I had a data capable machine though so it could be pin pointed to the problem but it appears that my apnea is considered moderate and those are supposed to be for serious cases.

You're being fed a lie by your DME... the reason being is that they make more money if you accept a not fully data capable machine as they will get the same payment for a Elite (fully data capable) as they do an Escape (which is what you have)