please sign in if you were never tired or sleepy before cpap

[elena88]

roby sue, let me see if I can get this one for you..

that little voice you use while reading??

A FRIGGEN STIMULANT, RIGHT?

even if its a repair manual ...... you are processing information.. still stimulating that brain...


give my husband a book before bed, he is asleep in two minutes!

[SleepingUgly]

Have you tried reading this in bed? Guaranteed to put you to sleep:

http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/22/5/827.full

On par with that, google autopap titration vs. titration in the lab. Also a real snore.

If in fact you really can stay far more alert than I can reading this stuff in bed, please read about timing of exogenous melatonin supplementation in delayed sleep phase disorder, and report back to me tomorrow with what time I should take my melatonin! There's lots of conflicting information in the literature about this, and I'd like you twins to sort through it and get back to me. Whatever you do, do NOT fall asleep before you've read at least a meta-analysis or two on the topic. I'm counting on you. Don't let me down.

[elena88]

are you kidding S.U. ??? OMG, its a horror story....

talk about nightmares..

What college kids wont do for a pizza

This makes our cpap masks look as easy to wear as mousekateer ears!




Supraglottic pressure was measured continuously during each study using either a 6F infant feeding tube with 0.5 L·min−1 bias flow attached, or a custom-made 6F balloon catheter (Ackrad Laboratories, Cranford, NJ, USA) with a 1 cm long supraglottic balloon, inserted via the naris. The pharynx was lightly anaesthetised with either two or three sprays of 1% xylocaine, and the catheter was introduced through one nostril and advanced under laryngoscopic guidance until the tip/balloon lay ∼0.5 cm above the aryepiglottic folds. The tubing from the proximal pressure port of each pneumotach was split using a Y connector to provide mask pressure, which was measured by a separate pressure transducer (Ultima; Braebon, Ontario, Canada), and pressure and flow signals, which were fed to the research pneumotach system

[SleepingUgly]

You're supposed to read that in bed!

BTW, how is it possible to have an AHI of 43 AND 86 spontaneous arousals, all in the course of 1 hour's sleep, in stage 2?! That is truly remarkable. That's like a spontaneous arousal every 45 seconds or something like that, not withstanding the respiratory event associated with a desaturation or arousal nearly every minute... Have you considered asking for another titration study, and doing it with ambien on board (and some careful planning ahead so you aren't running around trying to dispose of your frumpy underwear)?

[robysue]

elena,

I swear we're long lost twins with twins for husbands too.

Yes, it's the friggin' voice in my head that tells the brain it's time to wake up and process information!

And yes, SU's link is enough to trigger nightmares if read in bed when trying to get sleepy.

As a mathematician, I know what dry, dull and difficulty reading material is like. Unfortunately that means that every time I try to read something that's supposed to be boring (because it's technical and not in my field?) the brain starts screaming "Get me a pen and paper so that I can try to make sense out of this! And do it NOW!"

And yes, I'll admit that reading stuff can bore the daylights out of me. Try reading a real analysis book for a while. Even if you're interested in real analysis, many of them ought to put anybody in their right mind to sleep if read at bedtime. But bedtime insomnia is not like that. Really and truly if I do anything in my bedroom except sleep and sex, I run a real risk of not getting to sleep in a timely fashion. It's part of good sleep hygiene for those of us not blessed with the ability to turn that dang little voice in our heads off when we want to go to sleep.

And what happens when I read in bed does not depend on whether the reading material is enough to make be yawn or not. The physical activity of moving my eyes to scan the letters on the page is a stimulant. I can be yawning like mad, but once I put the book down and try to get to sleep, the brain keeps focusing on non-sleep stuff. It may even be somthing along the lines of "how can anybody stand to read this stuff?"

And if it has anything at all to do with something I might remotely have a symptom or two for, well that triggers all the hypochondriac neurons in the brain to start functioning in overtime. (So imagine the scale of hypocondriac's worry kicking if I really do have a chance of having said disease or something related.) No reading about sleep disorders at bedtime ain't a way to cure insomnia: To shut down the hypocondriac worrying, I'll start focusing on the crack directly above my head in the bedroom and worrying about the house falling down while I'm asleep. I *know* this worry is silly and ridiculous since the crack has not changed in 13 years and it's just a surface crack. But it is a familiar (and comforting) worry that I can always rely on to keep me tossing and turning on a night that I can't get comfortable anyway.

[elena88]

You're supposed to read that in bed!

It was so facinating I couldnt wait to read it upright!

BTW, how is it possible to have an AHI of 43 AND 86 spontaneous arousals, all in the course of 1 hour's sleep, in stage 2?! That is truly remarkable. That's like a spontaneous arousal every 45 seconds or something like that, not withstanding the respiratory event associated with a desaturation or arousal nearly every minute... Have you considered asking for another titration study, and doing it with ambien on board (and some careful planning ahead so you aren't running around trying to dispose of your frumpy underwear)?

I have no friggen idea how that is possible, but my husband said I NEVER really sleep, so maybe he was right? He says, "Im special"
I dont even know how it is possible to be "aroused" so many times in stage two sleep.. I thought an arousal was coming out of one stage to another,
but in the test I was in stage one a few minutes, then stage two.. and thats as far as I got.. which is not surprising.. as I sleep like Im hyper alert..

They never suggested another study until a few weeks ago, when it was clear that I was failing miserable after seven months of trying.. but I cant
afford another one out of pocket, they are terribly expensive.. An ambien would have been nice, but my doctor did not want to give one to me as I had
never taken a sleep med in my life.. she did try a few other things later with the cpap which all failed.. oh and that melatonin.. GAVE ME A FRIGGEN
migraine behind my right eye.. yikeareenies!
If I do ever meet our deductable and have another sleep study, I shall take only the nightie panties, and wear only nightie panties! Then maybe also
I will get totally blitzed even though I dont really drink, but sounds like a good time...

Now as far as the frumpy undies.. I was trying to dispose of the sexy undies! the frumpy ones are the comfy ones! Had I slept longer in my sleep study,
and by the way, that was sixty six minutes but NOT all continuous.. I remember my doc showing me the graph.. "Oh look, you fell asleep for ONE minute
right here, and you stopped breathing.. this is very facinating!' I thought they were going to tell me to sew a tennis ball in my jammies, not it turns
out maybe thats all I needed! OMG..

In any case, I think bad things happen on my back, very bad things!

oh here are graphs that go with that pressure four from last night:

[kteague]

Elena, just thinking of your journey thusfar, it does seem you might have some problems to sort thru that are a bit unique, even if the experience of not being tired or sleepy before cpap is shared by some. In reading thru this thread one question comes to mind, and that is regarding the age of those who were not life-alteringly symptomatic at the time of diagnosis. I wonder that because for a very long time I was able to function even thru what in retrospect was long standing sleep apnea. I was still sharp, still getting promotions, staying busy - but once the decline became undeniable it was a breathtaking descent (literally lol). By then I was in my early 50's. If you'd have asked me this question when it was first suggested by a doctor that I had sleep apnea (in my mid 40s), I would have glowing "passed" the Epworth Sleepiness Scale. I just wanted to know why I woke up at night with my heart pounding and short of breath. I guess my question would be how many who were never tired or sleepy were diagnosed later in life? Maybe we just have an amazing ability to compensate for a very long time.

[elena88]

Funny you should say that, because my doctor asked me about my epworth scale of zero... she said, that this is more common
in women... that some women can just keep going and going, as they are so used to multitasking.. and if you take a hyper woman, its
easier to explain..

Im fifty four.... and the only sleeping problems I had besides chronic crazed insomnia (which I never went to the doctor about) was
also the waking up with my stomach pulsating, and high blood pressure when waking, and feeling like a ran a marathon..

That was it, turns out, I think that only happened when I slept on my back..

I never went to the doctor for insomnia, as my friends did, they were given sleeping pills to which they are addicted.. and I didnt want to go that road.


so do you consider yourself still to be energetic or hyper?

[robysue]

I'm female and just diagnosed at 52. Other than my hubby worrying about my snoring for about the last three years or so, I haven't had any of the symptoms that are talked about on this forum. But since starting CPAP a week ago, my mind's been in a real hazy fog and I've begun to have some serious daytime sleepiness and have even woken up twice with "not being able to breathe" feelings. Not to mention the force-fed goose dream.

Before CPAP: Never woke up feeling like I couldn't breathe even when my husband said I'd stopped breathing at night. Lots of bedtime insomnia that dates back to my high school days. Talked about it over the years with doctors: Since I usually can "stay" asleep and get back to sleep if I wake up, the doctors have always told me to practice "good sleep hygiene"----including no reading in bed and no watching tv in bed---and see if that brought the insomnia under control. And it usually does keep it under control: Before CPAP with no reading in bed and no watching tv in bed, I could reliably fall asleep most nights within an hour of hitting the sack. And I can live with that. [But when I read in bed or back before I kicked my hubby's tv out of the bedroom, I'd lie awake sometime for 3 hours waiting for sleep to come.]

[elena88]

I'm female and just diagnosed at 52. Other than my hubby worrying about my snoring for about the last three years or so, I haven't had any of the symptoms that are talked about on this forum. But since starting CPAP a week ago, my mind's been in a real hazy fog and I've begun to have some serious daytime sleepiness and have even woken up twice with "not being able to breathe" feelings. Not to mention the force-fed goose dream.

Before CPAP: Never woke up feeling like I couldn't breathe even when my husband said I'd stopped breathing at night. Lots of bedtime insomnia that dates back to my high school days. Talked about it over the years with doctors: Since I usually can "stay" asleep and get back to sleep if I wake up, the doctors have always told me to practice "good sleep hygiene"----including no reading in bed and no watching tv in bed---and see if that brought the insomnia under control. And it usually does keep it under control: Before CPAP with no reading in bed and no watching tv in bed, I could reliably fall asleep most nights within an hour of hitting the sack. And I can live with that. [But when I read in bed or back before I kicked my hubby's tv out of the bedroom, I'd lie awake sometime for 3 hours waiting for sleep to come.]

yikes you are my long lost twin! no tiredness before cpap, and now you are a pooped puppy on it. I also had insomnia from the time I was about
thirteen.. falling asleep in an hour is good! I know the three and four hour drill, how many times I heard the paper boy before I had fallen asleep..

Now then, we have to figure out why you are more tired now, unless its just an adjustment period.. hope that is all it is.. Im trying to remember,
when I first started, I think I was addicted to not sleeping, and I went thru a weird withdrawl phase.. maybe I was hooked on cortisol.. it wasnt pretty!
Hope that doesnt happen to you.. so how are you feeling with the pressures?

[kteague]

Im fifty four.... and the only sleeping problems I had besides chronic crazed insomnia (which I never went to the doctor about) was also the waking up with my stomach pulsating, and high blood pressure when waking, and feeling like a ran a marathon... so do you consider yourself still to be energetic or hyper?

Do you not think the crazed insomnia could have been your brain avoiding sleep because of the apnea?

If the energetic or hyper question is for me, I have to quote a Garfield the cat sticker I saw years ago... "If I get any lazier I'll slip into a coma." I'm one who got worse before I got better. With cpap I eventually began to come back to life, but with long standing chronic sleep issues due to RLS/PLMD, I function on a must-do basis, and there is little I MUST do. The limb movements keep me in an almost asleep-almost awake restless state a lot. A long time ago I was nicknamed "Road Runner" but a few years ago I was stopped in my tracks when Wiley Coyote's anvil of poor sleep fell on my head. (Sorry for the old cartoon references for those unfamiliar.) Even when my legs would be quiet, it took my brain a very long time to learn how to sleep deeply again. Thankfully I do get blocks of maybe 2 to 4 hours of dead-to-the-world blissful sleep most nights. It keeps me going - even if ever so slowly.

[elena88]

Do you not think the crazed insomnia could have been your brain avoiding sleep because of the apnea?

If the energetic or hyper question is for me, I have to quote a Garfield the cat sticker I saw years ago... "If I get any lazier I'll slip into a coma." I'm one who got worse before I got better. With cpap I eventually began to come back to life, but with long standing chronic sleep issues due to RLS/PLMD, I function on a must-do basis, and there is little I MUST do. The limb movements keep me in an almost asleep-almost awake restless state a lot. A long time ago I was nicknamed "Road Runner" but a few years ago I was stopped in my tracks when Wiley Coyote's anvil of poor sleep fell on my head. (Sorry for the old cartoon references for those unfamiliar.) Even when my legs would be quiet, it took my brain a very long time to learn how to sleep deeply again. Thankfully I do get blocks of maybe 2 to 4 hours of dead-to-the-world blissful sleep most nights. It keeps me going - even if ever so slowly.

I do think that the apnea was causing me not to sleep.. I had no idea!

I love your cartoon references, that is hysterical! do you have any garfield slippers?

Now those PLM are a pain.... that is just awful.. but to get maybe four hours of dead to the world sleep once in awhile must be like Heaven..
sure wish there was something to do for that.. Its amazing that our brains get so used to something that is so abnormal, isnt it?

[victormiller]

Im just trying to find some mates like me who were never tired or sleepy during the day before cpap..

people we would score zero on that epworth sleepiness scale.. people who were vibrant, energetic and could work ten hour days..


and didnt know they even had sleep apnea....


maybe someone that doesnt even snore?


How many of you are out there? I need some buddies!


(now watch the thread fall slowly to the bottom like a spot of squid in a fish bowl )

I was tired before using CPAP, but feel much worse using CPAP. I'm able to sleep through the night with it, and checking my numbers from the SD card I find that they're very good. However, when I wake up in the morning and for many many hours afterwards I feel much worse than without using it. I will say that I feel mentally a little more awake but physically feel utterly exhausted when I awaken (much more so than before going to sleep).

[secret agent girl]

.

[Phoenixpuppy]

I totally get this and am happy to realize I wasn't totally nuts with the high energy thing. I have always had a very high energy level and worked a really intense project this Fall with about 130 hours over my normal 40 per week in a 6 week period. I did feel more worn out after the event and now that things have quieted down, I am feeling REALLY tired. The more active I am, the better I feel. However, I am beginning to think the sleep apnea has caused some increasingly noticeable coritsol or hypoglycemia issues and I'm looking forward to getting that checked out.