TROLL ALERT! - IF YOU ARE BORED HERE IS YOUR CHANCE TO TROLL

[jnk]

What I wanted to know is simply: What other names did you use, and why such a kind, gentle, even-tempered, peace-loving and wise man would be posting covertly under another name.

Fair enough, and thanks for the kind words, given these circumstances, plr66.

I have posted registered as "jnk" and "who," and I also recall having posted non-registered by phone as "jnkphone" and "jnkguested." The joke about "17 identities" was only a joke in poor taste while I was getting carried away. I have used no other personas here, although I do currently post at apneasupport.org as "jeffnk" and post at SleepGuide.com a "j n k". I have signed up at no other boards.

I assume your other question was addressed in my earlier post.

I can't say for sure who "Really" is, but, to me, the posting style has led me to formulate a guess. I don't think it would be appropriate for me to mention my assumption, just in case I am wrong. Besides, it would be nicer to hear it from him, wouldn't it?

Thank you for posting your questions, plr66. Feel free to ask more.

Same goes for the rest of the board.

[SleepingUgly]

My point is that circumstances arise in which the most appropriate response can be a punch in the nose, or a rude noise, or ridicule...

...or a piss on a desk... ?

[SleepingUgly]

jnk, your openness about all this is appreciated.

[plr66]

Perhaps the question plr66 would like to ask is, "Jnk, why 'who'?" The following is my self-serving answer:
A while back, a poster I respect overmuch implied a few of my radical opinions were neither logical nor helpful and could hurt the boards "reputation."
When I thought about the statements made in that thread, I decided it was mostly the number that followed the word "Posts" below "jnk" that was causing the "board reputation" problem........ I felt the desire to post some helpful words without risking getting attacked, according to my perspective at the time.

I knew that some posters here also post at other forums with other names, and I knew that a very few who post here (OK, one) use parody personas to keep their post numbers low. So I figured: "Hey, why not just sign up with another name?"

So I'm a little slower to catch on, but never in a million years would I have guessed that "who" was you, much less your reasons for deciding to use another identity.

Turns out, though, that much of the board didn't read that foolishness, so when I did the twilight-zone reveal thing in this thread in an attempt to get "Really" and others to do the same, it was understandably disconcerting to a number of people. I didn't expect that. Yeah, I AM actually that dumb!...

Jeff, from here out in your post, I can only say that your self-trouncing is way too extreme, and certainly not needed after reading your forthright statement of your line of reasoning. Your owning it and just deciding to be who you are in one identity is a terrific conclusion for me. Despite the fact that you do not need to please me or anyone else, quite frankly.

In conclusion (FINALLY, right?), I apologize sincerely to anyone hurt by my posting under two different identities at the same time without making it clear what I was doing and why. That was cruel to those who have come to care for "jnk" for whatever reason and didn't follow the dodge or the joke. THAT mistake won't happen again. But I warn you that if I was stupid enough to do what I did, I'm stupid enough to make similar mistakes in the future, even if not that one. You have been forewarned. Any post here in the future will be as jnk. But I may be doing more posting at apneasupport and Sleepguide for a while. One is highly moderated and the other is medium-low moderated, which may be better for me, personally, for now, than “lightly moderated.” Feel free to pass my statement on to those who have me on their ignore list. And for any who desire more information for any reason, feel free to PM me.

Oh, and one more thing:

Jeff/jnk/who

Jeff, I for one would not in any way exaggerate your choosing to use another identity as "cruel!" Had not even occurred to me. And while you may for personal reasons prefer the other lists, I would hope you will remain here as you always have. You're a special presence. Thanks for your thoughtful response.

[jnk]

jnk, your openness about all this is appreciated.

Thank you, SleepingUgly. Ozij suggested by PM that the board would benefit if I explained myself. At first I said no. Then the wisdom of her words sank in.

She has been very gracious despite my hurting her deeply. I had assumed from earlier posts that she knew exactly who "Who" was the whole time and had been playing along the whole time. Boy, was I wrong about that, among other things recently!

She is a good woman who does good work. That is my judgment from my dealings with her on this board. And I appreciate her prompting me to be as open as possible with my explanation while maintaining appropriate privacy.

[jnk]

Jeff, I for one would not in any way exaggerate your choosing to use another identity as "cruel!"

I appreciate your saying so, plr66. But you and I have only had passing contact in discussions in threads. Others here viewed themselves as having a personal bond with me based on the nature of my interactions with them in public and in PMs. Rightly so. I also develop emotional attachments to posters here. It is a natural aspect of human nature when people interact about serious matters in any arena. Those posters are the ones who feel personal betrayal. I get it. I was addressing that along with the mechanics of the circumstance.

[Madalot]

I appreciate your saying so, plr66. But you and I have only had passing contact in discussions in threads. Others here viewed themselves as having a personal bond with me based on the nature of my interactions with them in public and in PMs. Rightly so. I also develop emotional attachments to posters here. It is a natural aspect of human nature when people interact about serious matters in any arena. Those posters are the ones who feel personal betrayal. I get it. I was addressing that along with the mechanics of the circumstance.

Jeff, I have to say that my first reaction to your "who" alias was negative. But I looked back and thought about and realized that who wasn't posting in a manner that seemed inappropriate or offensive -- by my standards anyway. After reading your post explaining your reasons, I understand completely. I have more respect for you now than I did before. You (jnk) have always been kind and helpful to me and that's what's important to me.

[jnk]

Thanks, Madalot. Your words mean a lot to me.

You have been a particularly precious addition to this board from the first post you made here.

[-SWS]

A while back, a poster I respect overmuch implied a few of my radical opinions were neither logical nor helpful and could hurt the boards "reputation." When the poster saw I was hurt, he apologized immediately, mentioning a personal situation. I mentioned that recent health problems likely made my feelings too tender. I turned off PM's to keep from dealing with questions about health matters I was trying not to think about. And I pouted.

Jeff, I also appreciate your coming back to explain everything in detail---especially since I was that poster who triggered all the above with this post of mine:

But in the absence of clinically significant data, clearly defined data is better than unclear data, for me. What the S8 provided for trending was at least publicly defined.

My point is that the old data was not close to being clearly defined with respect to the pathology or SDB. Nor did it more closely approximate AASM hypopnea measurements than the S9 hypopnea approximations, which DO more closely approximate AASM. See ozij's comment above about Berthon-Jones having initially thought about and measured those hypopneas as normal sighs and wakefulness flow-variations.

Jeff, if you'd like to maintain the opinion that S8 HI approximations were better than S9 HI approximations because you're pretty sure the manufacturer is being sneaky, then that is fine. I respect your right to maintain that opinion while strongly disagreeing with it. I don't think unsubstantiated allegations of corporate sneakiness lend this message board a lot of real-world credibility. But so far yours is not an opinion based in empiricism or logic. Rather that's a STRONG opinion about empirical measurement based on vague hunches. But I slept through Sneaky Corporate Measurements 101.

As it stands, the only numeric-related case I see you making for that older inflated HI ,was that since the old HI meter moved a lot, it must have therefore been measuring something good.... and since the new HI meter doesn't move as much, there must be some valuable measurements information that is now lost.

Measurement-related signal noise can sometimes skew trending itself. Measurement-related signal noise can sometimes be easier to trend than the actual information-laden signal itself, Jeff. Easier number trending does NOT necessarily equate to more accurate trending or signal measurement.

I also want to apologize to YOU once again for that, Jeff. In the same spirit of candor, I'll also share that I spent weeks in self-doubt for having triggered your false departure. But once I finally realized you had registered as "who" only a couple days after my above post, and were prolifically posting elsewhere, I felt betrayed. I went through an entire gamut of feelings about what emotional damage or conflict, exactly, I might have caused you... I'm glad you're alive and well, Jeff. Needless to say I'm not exactly happy with how things unraveled after my post. I appreciate your apology above.

I started the dual-identity discussion with REALLY in mind---as well as the few REALLY clones who seemed to crop up lately. I suppose if this thread served no other redeeming purpose, it might be to remind ourselves that we can really alter peoples' mindset, if not lives, with but a single post. If there is ANYONE else I have unknowingly hurt, I want you to know I am sincerely sorry and did not mean it. If anyone is thinking it might be fun to be a troll around here, think twice!!!

I hope you post plenty around here Jeff. REALLY, I hope you permanently retire from CPAPtalk, but I most definitely welcome your other half.

[Madalot]

Thanks, Madalot. Your words mean a lot to me.

You have been a particularly precious addition to this board from the first post you made here.

I found this forum through a google search after I found myself confused about my cpap machine. I knew nothing. Less than nothing. I was scared and asked basic and elementary questions. Questions the more experienced people probably laughed at -- not in a bad way, but more of a "man, I remember asking those same questions when I first started all of this!!"

If memory serves me correctly, jnk was the very first person that replied to my first post. And I remember clearly how kind you were to me. You provided valuable help and information and helped guide me through the early stages of my journey from cpap to ventilator. I will always be grateful to you -- and everyone else that held my hand and tried to patiently guide me through this.

THAT'S what I'm focusing on. The rest of it is just background noise to me.

[jnk]

Thanks, -SWS. All indications from tests so far are that I will be alive and well for a long time to come. Just waiting for results from one last biopsy. Right now my biggest problem is itchy stitches!

It isn't fair how much pressure so many of us put on you. You should feel free to post whatever you feel.

You and I have had differences of opinion on facts and interpretation before in the spirit of free discussion, but I did feel belittled in what I interpreted as a statement that my opinions are not based on reasoning and not useful to the board. I took that as personal attack and asking me to leave, though I am sure you didn't mean it that way. If I didn't have so much respect for your judgment in such matters, those statements from you would have meant nothing. Unfortunately, you represent the voice of reason for me in all things PAP related, so it was like hearing the AASM and ASAA simultaneously telling me to get lost, when I'm sure all you meant was a loving rebuke for me to be careful.

I still feel more comfortable posting elsewhere for now, but for more reasons than the above. That can change. And, hey, I learned that pain meds and forum posts don't mix well.

I like the way you do what you do, and what you put up with, and your example to all in how to post gentlemanly and firmly in a forum. I apologize for the deception and the betrayal of you and any pain I put you though.

At least you've gotten a marriage proposal out of this thread. I mean, it doesn't get much better than that, right? For the record, I did not raise my hand. Nothing personal.

Latuh,

jnk

[ozij]

A muffin with hair is still a muffin. Maybe an out-of-fashion muffin, but a muffin nonetheless.

Well, it may still be a muffin, but I certainly wouldn't want to eat it!

Now I look like Art Garmuffin (Simon and Garmuffin? You know, "Muffin Over Troubled Water"? "Sounds of Muffins"? "Feelin' Muffy"? "Mrs. Muffinson" (or was that "Mrs. Robinmuff"))?

Muffy or not, that was pefect!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pf1zYwpSWQ, second 0:40

Edit: For the record, though, it's in Bookmuffs... or Muffends, one of those early ones....

[mars]

.
.
and now it seems to be my turn..............................

Hi plr66
Great post. Now be prepared to be called paranoid, shameful, suspicious, just an opinion, be nitpicked, diverted, minimised, vilified etc. But will your main concerns be adequately and truthfully deal with - I doubt it. Mars

Mars, I am sorry your experiences here have left you so bitter. I do not share those feelings, but simply felt a little shaken off center to think that I might not be able to trust folks who I have learned to trust here. And I did not know which name jnk was using, nor do I still know who "Really" is, despite suspicions.

Well. I guess I got it wrong - again.

I am beginning to think (assuming that is a viable possibility) that I need more cpap therapy before I delve into the intricacies of posting on non-cpap topics, and I am sorry for the aggravation my words have caused, in the past and in the present.

I obviously need to look at myself, and see what needs to be done.

Mars

[DoriC]

Thanks, -SWS.
.
At least you've gotten a marriage proposal out of this thread. I mean, it doesn't get much better than that, right?

Latuh,

jnk

Oh yes, it does get better! I actually understood the dispute you two were having about S8 vs S9! And we don't even use those machines! What could be better than that!

[kteague]

Have we made it to the group hug yet? ((((((((()))))))))