Could it be that I dont need my apap?

[elena88]

Last night I had the most wonderful sleep ever!

seven hours with my face in the pillows.. yes face down, on my tummy ALL NIGHT.. woke up in the same position I fell asleep in..

NO mask..

Is it possible that I have positional apnea and DO NOT have any events on my stomach at all?

I dont usually sleep thru the night, and I usually dont feel so great when I wear my apap, although it did stop the nocturia and irrigular heart beats..
but I had NONE OF that last night, or this morning when I slept on my stomach all night long..

is it possible?

The reason I ask is because.. my entire sleep study was ON MY BACK, because they told me to lay on my back..
My entire week titration was ON MY BACK too..

I dont really know what goes on when Im on my stomach because my nose pillows come loose and I get leaks, and maybe those are read
as centrals?

I feel like a million bucks, I havent felt this good in months and months and months! I feel like I could lasso the moon, and pull it out of orbit I
have so much energy!

[BlackSpinner]

Do the same thing with your machine and see what it says.

There was a reason you had a sleep study.

[SleepyBobR]

Wow, that's amazing. But how could you breathe with your face buried in the pillow?

[elena88]

My sleep study wasnt much of a study, I only slept for an hour and not all at the same time..

I put two pillows on each side of me and stick my head in the space between them..

All I know is I feel like a ferret just let out of the cage!

[Uncle_Bob]

i had a similar moment when i slept on my side (very usual) forgot to put mask on but had my pulse oximeter on. woke up and checked it, no desats

Makes you wonder ....

[Raj]

Certainly possible and the way you feel is a strong indicator although not conclusive, particularly for multiple nights. I'd say BlackSpinner's suggestion is excellent, and I wonder why you had a sleep study at all if you sleep so well in that position. Perhaps you've lost considerable weight in the recent past?

[djr1215]

The reason I ask is because.. my entire sleep study was ON MY BACK, because they told me to lay on my back..
My entire week titration was ON MY BACK too..

That's one of the things I didn't understand when I had my study. They wanted me on my back and I don't sleep that way. I did after a while tell them they either had to let me get on my side or they had to get me some pepcid, so they let me turn over for a while and then made me turn back to my back. I threw up all the way home from acid reflux.

[elena88]

ah, I see some of you have had the same experience. I wonder if in my sleep study if I was on my stomach if anything would have happened.
Its very hard to sleep on your stomach with a mask on, but I am going to try. I have not lost any weight, my issues are my big tongue, adnoids, tonsils,
and tiny throat opening..
That is awful you had such a horrible experience with the acid reflux and the sleep study position!
Anyone else feel they might have positional apnea? I wonder if it can be one hundred percent positional in some people..
NO apneas at all if in proper position?
geez, if this is my case, Im going to get a massage table and stick my face in that!



this was on another thread, but here
My sleep study from february

Patient: 53 year old female
Patients estimate of sleep latency 120 minutes, patients estimate of sleep duration 2 hours.. Patient reported quality and quantity of sleep same as usual.
Epworth score: 0
Sleep data:
time in bed 6.1 hrs
total sleep time: 66.5 minutes
stage one sleep 2.0 minutes 3.0%
stage two sleep 60.5 minutes 91%
stage three sleep 4.0 minutes 6%
Rem 0.0 minutes 0.0%
WASO (wake time after sleep onset) 174.5 minutes or 2.9 hours
sleep latency 125.5 minutes or 2.09 hours to get to sleep
Sleep effienciency 18.1 %

Respirtory events:
Central 4, obstructive 28, mixed 0, hypopnea 16
total number of events 48
maximum seconds 29.5

oximetry data: desaturation events index 33.4 lowest SA02 81%
arousal data: total number of arousals 86
leg movement arousals 0.0
snoring arousals 0.0
arousal index 77.6/hr
spontaneous arousals 41
respiratory arousals 45, respiratory arousal index 40. 6 /hr

Comments: Respiratory events were obstructive with AHI of 43.3. Baseline oxygen saturation normal, oxygen desaturation index was 33.4/hr severely increased. Desaturation events were intermittant. Sleep structure and quality was fragmented due to respiratory events.. Conclusion: severe sleep apnea based on limited sleep time.

[LoQ]

You sound like me.

time in bed 6.1 hrs
total sleep time: 66.5 minutes

That is so interesting, because every time I talk to a sleep professional and must tell them how much trouble I have sleeping in the lab setting, they always insist that it's nonsense, that everyone thinks they can't sleep at a sleep study but everyone sleeps without any trouble. Baloney.

This is funny, and it probably belongs in that "stupid things your DME/Dr. says" category. I have no trouble sleeping at home. During my first sleep study, the conditions for sleeping were awful. I was eventually in a lot of pain (because the bed was so hard) that I literally could not sleep from the pain. (I should have said something to them, but I was raised not to complain.) The pain was because of THEIR conditions, having nothing to do with what I was doing. I slept on one side until it was throbbing, then I slept on the other until it was throbbing, then I laid awake with both hips throbbing. (That was actually not the only source of pain they were causing, but it doesn't matter, the point was I was in pain.)

In the report, the doctor wrote something like, "patient experienced long periods of being awake during the night and should be evaluated for insomnia."

Isn't that hilarious? They torture me to the point that the pain is keeping me awake, and then they have the nerve to suggest that somehow I'm at fault for this, that I have insomnia.

Oh, and the doctor never even saw me. No one ever asked me why I was lying there awake. They just presumed it was insomnia. I could have easily explained it if they had bothered to just ask.

[Big Daddy RRT,RPSGT]

An hour of sleep is a poor sleep study. You should be re-studied. Many people have sleep onset events that resolve as sleep progresses. You certainly could have positional sleep apnea. We see it all the time. But one thing, if you felt so good why have a sleep study? Well for most people they feel like crap because most people do not sleep in one position all night. So you toss and turn all night, sometimes on your side, back, stomach. You find a good breathing position on your side or stomach and then your arm gets numb or your back hurts so you wake up turn and try to go back to sleep.

Most have the worst apneas on their back, so to see if you have sleep apnea we encourage you to sleep on your back. If you don't have sleep apnea it shouldn't be a problem. If you can minimize your sleep apnea by sleeping on your stomach then get a sleep study with this in mind. I sleep great on my stomach because it pulls the soft palate forward opening the airway but then I wake up with a back ache or numb arm and then turn over to choke and gasp on my back. So I wear CPAP. Maybe you can do better on your stomach? Some places you can do a free sleep screener at home. Try it sleeping on your stomach and see how it comes out. Good luck.

[elena88]

That is so interesting, because every time I talk to a sleep professional and must tell them how much trouble I have sleeping in the lab setting, they always insist that it's nonsense, that everyone thinks they can't sleep at a sleep study but everyone sleeps without any trouble. Baloney.

This is funny, and it probably belongs in that "stupid things your DME/Dr. says" category. I have no trouble sleeping at home. During my first sleep study, the conditions for sleeping were awful. I was eventually in a lot of pain (because the bed was so hard) that I literally could not sleep from the pain. (I should have said something to them, but I was raised not to complain.) The pain was because of THEIR conditions, having nothing to do with what I was doing. I slept on one side until it was throbbing, then I slept on the other until it was throbbing, then I laid awake with both hips throbbing. (That was actually not the only source of pain they were causing, but it doesn't matter, the point was I was in pain.)

In the report, the doctor wrote something like, "patient experienced long periods of being awake during the night and should be evaluated for insomnia."

Isn't that hilarious? They torture me to the point that the pain is keeping me awake, and then they have the nerve to suggest that somehow I'm at fault for this, that I have insomnia.

Oh, and the doctor never even saw me. No one ever asked me why I was lying there awake. They just presumed it was insomnia. I could have easily explained it if they had bothered to just ask.

I heard that story too, "dont worry, its VERY RARE people dont sleep in the study"
I asked the doctor what the minimum time was to get a result, she said two hours.. and I asked.. "does it have to be all together?" and she said, No.
I was freaking out because I thought I wouldnt sleep and have to pay this giganic sleep study bill for nothing, so to say the least, I was pretty stressed
during the study, all I could think about was how much it was costing, and it could be total waste..
Im sorry you were so uncomfortable during your study, hard to get a good view of what your nights are really like. Now that I think about it,
all the times I woke up gasping for breath, and having heart issues, I was on my back. Wish i could have slept some time on my stomach in the study,
but I will try very hard to do my own sleep study on my stomach, without disloding my nose pillows tonite..
Well, anyway it turns out you dont need two hours to get a diagnosis, I have one with a little over an hour.. I was told if I didnt sleep ONE wink
I would be refunded the entire study amount, so when things were going south, I was thinking I should just stay awake all night, but I did fall asleep a
little..
In your study they should have asked you why you were awake, because you were hurting!
I was lying awake thinking about bombing the test, and paying thousands of bucks for nothing, that was a lot of pressure, and I suck at taking
tests anyway..

[LoQ]

In your study they should have asked you why you were awake, because you were hurting!

Yes. Sleep techs should always inquire about that. Patients actually know things.

For my titration study at the same place, I brought my own bed. This was no small feat because I had to schlep it from the parking deck across the street, along with all of my other stuff.

For that study, I came an hour early because I knew I had so much trouble getting to sleep. (The lab SHOULD have known that, too, from my first study.) My sleep tech got there an hour late, so I waited 2 hours to even talk to him, and then only to say hello. Then the scheduler had paired me with an infant. Great. Babies get to go first. I have no problem with that, but when they knew it was going to take me so long to get to sleep (they had my first study available to them), why oh why didn't they pair me with an adult who could go second?

I got there an hour early hoping that by being there early they would go ahead and work on me first. In any event, the sleep tech finally got the baby all situated, and then he came to wire me up. I'd been there over 4 hours at that point. It took him a long time because he's slow. He stops to talk a lot. I, of course, already had my bed made while I was waiting. When he finally got me wired, he has the gall to say to me, "You need to hurry up and go to sleep because we are running out of time and there may not be enough time for the study to be valid if you don't."

Talk about making it hard to go to sleep. Now the pressure is on. I'm lying there with my heart beating a million times a minute. I'm seriously contemplating the consequences of taking an additional blood pressure pill, but I didn't have much experience with that medication at the time and was worried about taking it without consulting a doctor. So I have all of these thoughts racing through my mind, and worrying about getting to sleep as quickly as possible.

In the morning, the sleep tech says to me, "Were you in pain last night? You had a lot of alpha intrusions."

Sigh. No, you're thinking of the FIRST study. I had a lot of alpha intrusions because my thought processes never slowed down. I only had 8 minutes of REM sleep.

[Janknitz]

Elena,

I agree with Blackspinner, sleep in that position with your machine on, but one additional suggestion is to turn your bottom pressure down to 4 so you can see if it stays low in that position.

And remember the adage "one night does not a trend make"--you need several nights of data to feel really confident in the results, either way.

If it does indicate a lack of apnea in your favorite sleep position, ask for a HOME study. There is a machine that goes on 2 fingers--not bothersome at all, and you will get a full 9 channels of data to confirm without apap in your own bed and sleeping conditions.

[LoQ]

And remember the adage "one night does not a trend make"--you need several nights of data to feel really confident in the results, either way.

That seems axiomatically true. And empirically true, based on my admittedly feeble attempts to study my own sleeping patterns at home.

It always puzzles me, then, that sleep labs/doctors think they can come up with a diagnosis in a single night of study. And worse, some of them come to a sleep Dx and Rx BOTH in a single night. Just amazing.

[DreamOn]

Well, Elena, one way to test your hypothesis would be to use a pulse oximeter all night at home to test your oxygen levels throughout the night while sleeping on your stomach, back and sides. They're about $130 or so.

I do not think you slept so well last night necessarily because you weren't having apnea events. I think you may have slept so soundly because you have been exhausted from getting only a few hours of very fractured sleep each night and you finally crashed. You may have slept well because the large leaks you have with CPAP didn't arouse you all night long.

I have positional sleep apnea (quite a few more events when on my back), but I would not trust that I would side or stomach sleep 100% of the time. I still have apneas in those positions also. So I am not willing to gamble with my health, and I will continue to use my machine. The fact that your nocturia and irregular heart beats resolved by using the machine says a lot to me.