CompSA, Hypoventilation, PLMs, Bradycardia and Hypotension?

[unadog]

I wonder if dosing with fairly large amts of say magnesium & calcium to move to more base

Magnesium is a **big** favorite with many rheumatologists, and calcium with that. Vitamin D is also popular. I remain agnostic on biochemical solutions, but have had those recomended to me by "real" doctors.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-h ... 25499.html

"Think of magnesium as the relaxation mineral. Anything that is tight, irritable, crampy, and stiff -- whether it is a body part or an even a mood -- is a sign of magnesium deficiency."

[dsm]

This "second life" of the thread is absolutely fascinating... thanks all! BB perhaps if it is indeed alternating cycles of dominance of acid vs base in blood pH between day and nightime, I wonder if dosing with fairly large amts of say magnesium & calcium to move to more base and then high protein to move to acidic pH might help...only if that theory is supported by testing of course. Fascinating y'all!

Muse Inc,

Some good thoughts - this line has sure got my attention. In looking thru the various comments I like the one SWS put forward re getting a pH test kit & tracking pH in the daytime & then at sometime in the night. Am off to my chemist to get one just to see what it does & produces.

One thought that came to mind re magnesium & calcium is that the pH test should be done 1st & then take the m & c & measure again a day or two later (I have been trying m & c tablets on & off but had no real way to determine if it was having any impact hence the value in the test kit idea).

DSM

[Muse-Inc]

...One thought that came to mind re magnesium & calcium is that the pH test should be done 1st & then take the m & c & measure again a day or two later..

I was thinking of the relatively immediate effect of the supps, but I'm not sure what their relative half-life effect on pH might be. I do know that for several hrs following a high-protein meal the pH might be considerably more acidic. Thus, you could conceivably sorta kinda manage pH changes via these interventions while attempting to figure out why the body's natural balancing mechanism has gone wonky if that can be ascertained. Then, too, the cause may not be 'treatable.' If it were me, I would only try this after figuring out if my pH actually was cycling, then seeing what my sleep doc thought (mine's willing to consider whatever I've brought to the table). That's assuming there is a significant effect on pH of mag & cal...I would think so until they are metabolized/stored, etc.

[dsm]

Another path we might take a stroll down is surely going to be food intake that impacts metabolic pH balance (should pH balance appear to play a key role for any of us). But am not sure if what we are really boring into is pH imbalance created by respiration vs diet. (pH impacted Co2 levels vs pH impacted by diet).

DSM

(I need to find an original link for this claim)
"According to John Hopkins Medical Center and other research, maintaining appropriate body PH is the greatest factor for staying healthy. They further state that body PH must be within the 7.34 to 7.40 range for optimum health. If the body PH is maintained between these levels, they believe that cancer, chronic fatigue, connective tissue diseases, and arthritis can not thrive. "

#2 This link has some use ful pH level charts for parts of the body ...
http://www.chelationtherapyonline.com/articles/p149.htm

[blizzardboy]

Another path we might take a stroll down is surely going to be food intake that impacts metabolic pH balance (should pH balance appear to play a key role for any of us). But am not sure if what we are really boring into is pH imbalance created by respiration vs diet. (pH impacted Co2 levels vs pH impacted by diet).

Hi DSM, Interesting that you should make this point as I have been commenting to my wife lately that 5-10 mins after the evening meal I get really grumpy, irritable and sensitive. Maybe I can experiment with mood post-evening-meal vs type of food.

Maybe I am oscillating between acidosis during the day (hypercapnic) and alkalosis at night (posthypercapnic due to mechanical ventilation on ASV)!

Why not buy some ordinary pH test strips down at the chemist or pharmacist? You can detect those hypothetical oscillations in saliva or urine pH. Alternately you can pin-prick as diabetics do daily to directly measure your blood pH.

Hi -SWS, Ordinary pH strips won't have the resolution necessary to detect the changes we are after. I am keen to give a pH meter (e.g. from fleabay) a go though - pretty cheap experiment. Cheers,

[dsm]

<snip>

I just don't feel the need to walk into the FM wood for now

Might as well check in to the nursing home at the same time. You ain't neve rcomng out of that maze!

There is one good book on fibro, I think it is called "The Divine Comedy.". Describes all of the progressive levels ... hell, purgatory, that sort of thing ....
     
“In the middle of the road of my life I awoke in the dark wood where the true way was wholly lost”

Cheers! Enjoy your alternate path ....
Michael

Unadog

I came across this link just now & thought you would enjoy the sentiment expressed in it
(the topic is outside my fields of knowledge )

http://www.chelationtherapyonline.com/anatomy/p1.htm

Cheers DSM

[-SWS]

Hi -SWS, Ordinary pH strips won't have the resolution necessary to detect the changes we are after. I am keen to give a pH meter (e.g. from fleabay) a go though - pretty cheap experiment. Cheers,

I now see they are readily available and much cheaper than I would have guessed:
http://business.shop.ebay.com/Healthcar ... 86.c0.m282
So let us know how/if your pH measures up, BB. Good luck!

[dsm]

Re pH meters here in Oz on eBay

http://shop.ebay.com.au/?_from=R40&_trk ... Categories

Durned things are either fish tank tests or for hydroponics use (hydroponics in Oz is generally growing your own weed )

Must be a good human unit here somewhere

DSM

#2
Removed the search word 'weed' and came up with this on Oz eBay
http://beauty.shop.ebay.com.au/i.html?_ ... m270.l1313

#3
I'll start with the strips & see what they achieve - BB let me know if you find a good source for a pH probe - I saw what looked like a good one in Milwaukee US in SWS's link but it is $US109 then postage. - D

[kteague]

DSM, you have a chemist? And, what exactly does a pH probe probe?

[dsm]

DSM, you have a chemist? And, what exactly does a pH probe probe?

kteague

When we talk of going to the Chemist - here in Aust it means the local shopping centre where there is usually a Chemist shop.

I know that in the US they tend to be a counter in one ot the large strip mall stores. They are anachronistic but have worked out
how to survive & maintain a good income stream from a captured audience.

The probe I saw in SWS's US eBay link was a combo unit that resembles a digital thermometer. It was a 3-mode device that could do temp + pH + something else. I am guessing that it is used orally (I don't want to think of where else one might want to check their pH )

The saliva test though is limited in that saliva can have a much broader range of pH than blood which needs to be in a very narrow band. Also there are other important locations where pH should be monitored (lets just say at the other end to ones mouth) as that pH balance is very important and might be the best place to look for disturbances in the body's overall balance.

DSM

A good link
http://www.eseasongear.com/

The combo unit
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-8321241311 ... 6_40587383

[Muffy]

I wonder if dosing with fairly large amts of say magnesium & calcium to move to more base and then high protein to move to acidic pH might help...only if that theory is supported by testing of course.

Attempting to control your pH through arbitrary ingestion of electrolytes is an excellent way to kill yourself.

Muffy

[Muffy]

Show me the PFT!

With the normalization of the -HCO3, the likelihood of finding abnormalities on PFT is small.

However, those desats with your centrals appear to be somewhat greater than expected. Perhaps diffusion on PFT may reveal something.

BTW, you don't live (or were tested) at elevation, were you (I mean like about 5000 feet)? Although Australia looks pretty flat to me.

Muffy

[Muffy]

Hi -SWS, Ordinary pH strips won't have the resolution necessary to detect the changes we are after. I am keen to give a pH meter (e.g. from fleabay) a go though - pretty cheap experiment. Cheers,

I now see they are readily available and much cheaper than I would have guessed:
http://business.shop.ebay.com/Healthcar ... 86.c0.m282
So let us know how/if your pH measures up, BB. Good luck!

The cheapest you might be able to get away with is about $2000 (14,500$ Canadian). Even if those things could guarantee accuracy, precision and repeatability (like +- 0.01), you have to measure blood, arterial at that, and besides, those probes are only designed to test water. Once you introduce proteins, they all screw up (although presently testing one that costs ~$500 for a correlation study, and while it's closer, it still doesn't provide clinically useful information).

Muffy

[dsm]

Show me the PFT!

With the normalization of the -HCO3, the likelihood of finding abnormalities on PFT is small.

However, those desats with your centrals appear to be somewhat greater than expected. Perhaps diffusion on PFT may reveal something.

BTW, you don't live (or were tested) at elevation, were you (I mean like about 500 feet)? Australia looks pretty flat to me.

Muffy

A good question - BB? - Adelaide itself is very flat and not far above sea level BUT, the Adelaide Hills do rise quite markedly & if BB was tested at the higher altitudes or lives in them then yes it is a valid line of inquiry. I am betting though, that BB did his PSG in the Adelaide region itself (at low altitude). BB - pls confirm.

But agree that altitude can be a complication - cpaptalker 'lubman' taught us about that when he went onto Vpap Adapt SV & had to have a special CO2 deadspace extension added to his F/F mask. IIRC He lived at altitude.

DSM

[Muffy]

And I am convinced for now that my joint pain is caused by my use of CPAP due to the rapid and acute onset of this symptom, the total absence of any symptoms such as this prior to CPAP use, and the presence of pain typically only following CPAP use. Hence why I am focused on an explanation for joint pain centred on respiration and blood gases.

By what mechanism?

I'd be looking more for a change a sleep habits (like lying flat on your back all night).

When you hear hoofbeats, don't think gila monsters.

Muffy