Chronic Fatigue, Hypothyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, Folic Acid

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Re: Chronic Fatigue, Hypothyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, Folic Acid

Post by socknitster » Tue May 18, 2010 6:26 am

I don't think I can pick a favorite. I spin, weave, dye, knit, sew and sometimes dabble with surface design, tatting, bobbin lace, and crochet. I tend to do lots of one textile hobby and a bit of the rest with changes in what is the 'lots' hobby. Lately I have been weaving lots.
I know what you mean. Knitting is my fave right now because it fits in well with having 2 rambunctious boys. It is portable and I can pick up and put down quickly. Doesn't require dragging out a bunch of stuff.

Unlike spinning which I hope to learn soon. I got a used Louet wheel at a garage sale for $5 recently--thank goodness I was feeling better because just a few months ago I would have wanted to go but would have been unable to drag myself there. I have wanted to learn spinning for eons it feels like. This will be an "after boys are in bed" hobby, lol!

Thanks for the link Fiberfan!

jen

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Re: Chronic Fatigue, Hypothyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, Folic Acid

Post by socknitster » Tue May 18, 2010 6:28 am

Muse-Inc wrote:
socknitster wrote:...As well as the bromine they use as a preservative in bread...
Scam as usual, unbromated flour has a longer shelf life. Plus, it tastes a whole lot better...or so I remember, been a long while since I made English muffin-bread or low-sugar cookies. King Arthur unbromated flour comes in many varieties, Kroger's carries it here.

Thanks for that! I didn't know King Arthur made flour unbromated--as little as I use flour, it will be worth a little extra cost to have this for my family!

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Re: Chronic Fatigue, Hypothyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, Folic Acid

Post by snnnark » Tue May 18, 2010 6:50 am

socknitster wrote: My endo finally called me back and agreed to prescribe levothyroxine and the lowest possible dose to see if it will help my symptoms. I'm thinking its 25 mcg. I start it tomorrow morning. Here's hoping for warmer hands and feet, better circulation, and less swollen tongue!

Jen
I'm following with interest this thread! I have many of the signs of low thyroid ( low temp, cold extremities, dry skin etc) but most especially low pulse, resting bpm in the mid 30's. Heart has been checked and no problems. I did a 3 day temp recording (average 97.2) and only once did my temp get above 98.6 and that was after a long hot bath!
TSH is "normal" 3.14 (.27 - 4.2 reference) Ft4 is 16 (12 - 22). No Ft3 readings unfortunately.
I persuaded my doc to do a trial of levothyroxine (euthyrox 50) to see if we can get the pulse and temp up.
Problem is that 4 days in, things seem to be going backwards. This morning my waking bp was 117/84, hr 28 bpm! SpO2 is normal and I'm feeling no more fatigued than usual. I see that it takes a while for the meds to kick in (9-10 days) so I'm hoping that today is just an anomaly! Sleep has been good but I don't know if that's got anything to do with the meds.

Any thoughts?

Deon

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Re: Chronic Fatigue, Hypothyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, Folic Acid

Post by socknitster » Tue May 18, 2010 7:32 am

You might look into the book I mentioned above about having thyroid symptoms with normal tests--you may make enough thyroid hormone but some other metabolic problem is preventing it from being used properly. Another option is to insist on more tests. Some people have a conversion problem from T4 to T3 and need some form of T3 as well. Or you may have too much Reverse T3 (the controversial Wilson's Temperature Syndrome).

My basal body temp that I take every morning upon waking with a special thermometor is consistently 96.6 degrees. It goes up to 97.5 right before my menstrual cycle restarts. The highest I've had in the last several months of taking it is 97.9. And it isn't just this thermometer. When I go to the docs it is also very low. Though it usually goes up a little bit during the day. Temps lower than 98.6 are supposedly inhibitory toward some bodily enzyme reactions. I don't know if this is true or just a theory. It makes sense that we don't function as well if we aren't at the optimal temp.

Hope you feel better Deon and keep us updated on how you do.

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Re: Chronic Fatigue, Hypothyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, Folic Acid

Post by bwell » Tue May 18, 2010 11:16 am

Very interesting information! I'm especially appreciating your book references - thank you!

Some comments:
re: Thyroid medication

You might consider Armour thyroid. I was on synthroid and a compounded t3 supplement for 3 years. My new doctor switched me to Armour and I noticed that a sort of jitteriness, hard to describe, was eliminated. It was like a very subtle anxiety - I don't miss it!

Regarding temperature, doctor tells me most thyroid patients have trouble getting above 96 degrees. I also keep a chart on my pulse for her. Not sure what that means as yet (retesting thyroid next month). Apparently, this data will help her adjust the T3/T4 ratios. The problem with the typical lab tests is that they list incorrect TSH ranges as normal so most doctors don't move beyond those stats. Great article from Mercola :http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/mercola.htm

re: adrenals

You might find this site interesting - Dr. James L. Wilson's information and his supplement: Future Formulations "Adrenal Rebuilder". http://www.futureformulations.com/store ... tm-p6.html

bwell

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Re: Chronic Fatigue, Hypothyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, Folic Acid

Post by DreamStalker » Tue May 18, 2010 1:52 pm

Here are a couple of links to internet radio broadcasts regarding thyroid (~ hr long each) -

Thyroid and Iodine - What You Need To Know

Your Thyroid and Adrenals

Nora has a great book I recommend to anyone interested in learning about a healthy lifestyle. Her other shows are pretty good too.

Enjoy
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Re: Chronic Fatigue, Hypothyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, Folic Acid

Post by socknitster » Tue May 18, 2010 3:55 pm

Bwell,

Edited because of an incorrect reference. I believe that supplement has ashwagandha? I react badly to ashwagandha--it gives me a dull throbbing headache in the afternoons. I tried on three separate occasions, weeks apart. It is a part of many formulations because it is an adaptogenic herb that is good for both adrenal fatigue and thyroid symptoms.

I have read many good things about armour thyroid meds. But there are two obstacles--I had to work really, really hard just to get levothyroxine--it is going to take a whole lot more work to get that changed to armour. Armour has had trouble keeping up with demand--especially since the book Stop the Thyroid Madness came out. (A book I do NOT recommend. The person who wrote it is a layperson and I have looked at her website and not been impressed with some of the blatantly weird and just plain wrong recommendations I have read there. She acts as though she is a doctor and dispenses information that just isn't always accurate in my opinion.) Anyway, that book has generated a LOT of interest for people to switch to Armour and the company has not been able to keep up. There have been shortages.

Yes, many doctors seem to be coming to the conclusion that they thyroid lab ranges are wrong and are not always conclusive. Dr. Mark Starr's book (Hypothyroidism Type II: The Epidemic) goes into the history there in detail and it is very interersting. When the TSH bloodtest arrived on the scene in the 70's no one seemed to think it was a very good test because it MISSED a lot of people--however that second part got lost somewhere in the shuffle and the TSH is now entrenched dogma for modern medicine.

The problem with many blood tests is that they don't use young healthy people as reference ranges--they use the people that got the tests done over the last year and then call the top 2 and bottom 2 percent the "outliers" and the ones who are sick. That wouldn't be a problem except that mostly people who get blood tests are old, fat and sick and are getting the tests done for a reason! Hello!!!! That system really ought to be changed. It is really ridiculous.

Thanks for the links Dreamstalker--I'll load em on my iphone and listen when I get a chance!

jen
Last edited by socknitster on Tue May 18, 2010 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chronic Fatigue, Hypothyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, Folic Acid

Post by socknitster » Tue May 18, 2010 4:01 pm

You might find this site interesting - Dr. James L. Wilson's information and his supplement: Future Formulations "Adrenal Rebuilder". http://www.futureformulations.com/store ... tm-p6.html
Oops, sorry I just looked at it and it doesn't have Ashwagandha. You know this goes back to the early times when my alternative doc told me I had "adrenal fatigue." I decided to buy a supplement with adrenal extract and tried three different ones. One my alt doc sold, that had ashwagandha so I couldn't take that, then I ordered one that didn't have ashwaghanda off of Dr. Teitelbaums website--at that time I was choosing between Teitelbaum and Wilson and I can't tell you why I chose T now. That preparation gave me terrible gastric distress even with food then I tried isocort which gave me the same reaction. I had to conclude I cannot take adrenal extract. Thyroid extract does not seem to bother me at all. Maybe that is a sign that is what I really needed, don't know!

Jen

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Re: Chronic Fatigue, Hypothyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, Folic Acid

Post by socknitster » Tue May 18, 2010 7:50 pm

Ok, Whoa, when I mentioned "Dr. Wilson's" book above I meant Dr. Mark Starr--Hypothyroidism Type II: The Epidemic. Which is the book I was referring to that talks about the history of hypothyroid diagnosis. Sorry. I will edit now to correct.

Yikes.

Still have some brain drain, I suppose.

I do have Dr. Wilson's book about Adrenal Fatigue, however.

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Re: Chronic Fatigue, Hypothyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, Folic Acid

Post by bwell » Wed May 19, 2010 7:35 am

Jen,

I had been warned by the doctor of the armour shortage but either I am lucky or Costco has found the secret well.... never had a problem and Costco pharmacist says neither has she!

bwell

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Re: Chronic Fatigue, Hypothyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, Folic Acid

Post by Babette » Wed May 19, 2010 9:28 am

Hopping in here, without reading the rest of the thread. Would you expect anything different from ME?

Jen, what happened to the oral device? I can't remember now what you got. But wasn't it a prescription, custom TMD? I thought you were nearly off XPAP with that device.

Jen, it amazes me you are so alert and intelligent online when you give me this list of symptoms. I never would have guessed. And now I feel like CR*P thinking this poor weak sick woman spent all that time knitting me a hood!!!!

OT - I found the Lexapro note you sent me eons ago. Saved to a different computer. Emailed it back to the laptop. Need to send it on to my facebook friend who was in need that night I hollered at you for help.

Okay, off to read the rest.

GIANT CYBER HUG!!!!!!
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socknitster wrote:Echo,

Yes. My initial prescription was for 16/12 bipap. I couldn't do straight cpap because it caused me to have central apnea. After I had a tonsilectomy shortly after my diagnosis (my tonsils were so big they touched during allergy season--the doctors felt it would help with my treatment) I was able to lower my pressure using the autobipap feature, but the bipap was bought and paid for. I have no idea if I could tolerate regular cpap now with a lower pressure. The a-flex is a lot like bipap from what I have read here. If and when I have to get a new machine (and if I don't need bipap) I'll have to demand a machine with aflex!

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Re: Chronic Fatigue, Hypothyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, Folic Acid

Post by Babette » Wed May 19, 2010 3:04 pm

Jen, is the 5-MTHP the same thing you and I were discussing the other night on Facebook?

I'm experimenting with two in the morning, one at night now. I accidentally took twice my AM pills a few weeks ago and felt REMARKABLY better that day. I thought maybe it was the double dose of Prozac, so I doubled that for two weeks. Nada. So now I'm trying doubling the 5-whatchamacallit. So far so good. Yes, I'm still taking 10 mg Prozac daily... can't stop... feel anxious when I can't have it... Yes, it's PSYCHOLOGICAL. It's cheap.

Muse, after reading this thread, I'm not 100% sure I'm "menopausal" now. (everyone else, Muse and I have an ongoing offlist discussion about hormones, sorry) Don't know what I am, but I'm beginning to suspect the new formula Birth Control Pills are causing my new symptoms. Might have to talk to the doc about this. Didn't really see it before, but this last round of PMS has made it painfully clear. I was suicidal most of Saturday, Sunday and Monday. Then suddenly on Tuesday I'm JUST FINE, thank you very much.

Anyway, Jen, glad you have the energy to put this out there. It's really good reading. Not good for the Hypochondriac in me, but good info.

Hugs all around,
B.

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Re: Chronic Fatigue, Hypothyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, Folic Acid

Post by socknitster » Wed May 19, 2010 4:36 pm

Babette, you are so funny!

No, the supplement I mentioned to you is called 5-HTP--the version of folic acid I am taking is called 5-MTHF. Letters and numbers. Ack. I don't have any idea about how old you are Babette, but a LOT of women have problems with the birth control pill. It can screw up your mood and other hormones and I recently read a reference that it can inhibit absorption of various vitamins, which is NOT good (I don't know if that is true, but if it is, that is so crazy--I mean, why?). Menopause can start anywhere from 45 to 55 with perimenopause starting well into the 30's. If you are feeling that bad on

When you are already on an SSRI, it is generally recommended not to exceed 200 mg of 5-HTP, however if you felt much better with a higher dose, you might try discontinuing the prozac and doubling your dose of 5-HTP. You might find that works for you. 5-HTP is (from my understanding) simply the raw materials that your body uses to MAKE serotonin--SSRI's work to keep the serotonin you do make stick around a little longer. The end result may feel the same but the action is quite different.

Feeling bad for three days and then suddenly feeling good implies hormonal issues to me. I'm going to take a guess that your period started Tuesday? That is called PMS and an extreme version would by premenstrual dysphoric disorder. If you really were feeling suicidal (I'm assuming you were exaggerating) you NEED to talk to your doctor about this for sure.

Regarding the oral device. I got it right before I discovered I was pregnant with Charlie. I was unwilling to experiment while I was pregnant (breathing is so important when one is pregnant, you know), so I held off. I did try it recently and there is no way I could fall asleep with that chunk of metal in my mouth. My mouth is incredibly small and even on the lowest setting it brought my lower jaw uncomfortably forward. Add that to the fact that it was really, really difficult to disingage, leaving me feeling panicky and claustrophobic, it just was not for me. I had high hopes for it and paid a lot of money for it, but it is just not for me. It was prescription--a TAP device. My pressure is pretty low now compared to before. Having my tonsils out made that possible. Right now a small mouth and large tongue are what is keeping my on xpap and may keep me there for the rest of my life, I have no idea.

Incidently, I had the best sleep of my adult life during this pregnancy. The combination of all that progesterone (the placenta makes 200 mg a day) and bipap made for very deep, easy sleep. I never even got up to pee until the last week or so. I would go to bed and wake up 8-9 hours later.

I was not this sick when I knit your hood--which by the way I have never received a pic of you modeling in garb! You better remedy that soon or I'll be hurt!

And the only reason I'm able to sound this coherent NOW is because I'm better! Yay! Still fine tuning, but I'm much better now.

If you need something to regulate your periods, do some research into Vitex--also called chaste tree or chaste berry. It is an ancient herb used for centuries to regulate women's cycles. It naturally enhances progesterone and stabilizes the imbalance between estrogen and progesterone that so many women these days have. Anyone with severe PMS or perimenopause or menopause or PCOS might want to consider this herb. It is well tolerated with less than 2% having side effects and has no known drug interactions. It is well documented to restart periods in cases of amenorhea and has helped many women get pregnant, though it is contraindicated during pregnancy itself.

bwell,

That is interesting. The online thyroid boards are just rife with armour shortage info. Good to know it isn't as bad as I had heard. I heard that recently they upped production or something too.

Dreamstalker,

Listened to your podcasts last night. They were interesting to hear, but other than confirming that adrenals and thyroids and iodine are important, did they really offer any helpful advice to a sufferer? Maybe I missed it because I was doing other stuff at the same time.

Jen

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Re: Chronic Fatigue, Hypothyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, Folic Acid

Post by Muse-Inc » Wed May 19, 2010 8:19 pm

Babette wrote:...Muse, after reading this thread, I'm not 100% sure I'm "menopausal" now. (everyone else, Muse and I have an ongoing offlist discussion about hormones, sorry)...
Babs, get them to do an FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) blood test, the higher it gets the more the brain is trying to get an egg to mature. This was and I suspect still is the gold standard for determining if you are or are not in the menopausal phase. Remember, too, during perimenopause, estrogen levels can vary by up to 500% every other day and if that's not enough to make ya nuts, I can't imagine what might. I hated perimenopause! Dreadful time, I went back on the BC pills that worked well for me to stop the night sweats that saturated my bed linens, gave me tachycardia, woke me up several times each night with sweat pouring off my scalp & into my eyes, down my back, collecting in body creases. Changing sheets several times/night is not conducive to getting any restful sleep; finally ripped open a garbage baggie and placed in under a beach towel and that under a sheet so I only had to replace those top 2 layers (hadda buy a waterproof liner for my pillow too as I ruined several pillows with sweat until it dawned on me to get a waterproof cover). This was before my apnea started...can't imagine what an awful experience this would be combined with apnea! Re-read John Lee's book on perimenopause...lots of good info, good tips too. The emotional rollercoaster is extreme as body hormones flucuate wildly from day to day. My loved ones and friends even though something was dreadfully wrong with me during that period.
Babette wrote:...beginning to suspect the new formula Birth Control Pills are causing my new symptoms. Might have to talk to the doc about this. Didn't really see it before, but this last round of PMS has made it painfully clear. I was suicidal most of Saturday, Sunday and Monday. Then suddenly on Tuesday I'm JUST FINE, thank you very much.
Might be you're outta eggs and thus not producing enough progesterone so really really really estrogen dominant...after the follicle that ripens the egg is ruptured by the release of the egg, it falls back onto the outside of the ovary and begins producing about 19-21 mgms of progesterone each day for about 14 days. When we stop ovulating (maturing & releasing an egg), our progesterone levels fall rapidly. Most Canadian & American women (in studies) by age 35 are producing almost no progesterone. Every cell in every woman's and man's body has progesterone receptors...even sperm!...so it's vital to the cells. It is produced by the adrenal glands in small amts every day but stress taxes the adrenals and all too often they can't produce what we need.

BTW, BC pills prevent maturation & release of the egg and the synthetic hormones in them typically and paradoxically have the opposite effect of the hormones the body produces. That's why topical progesterone is so popular, helps to balance the estrogens (every fat cell can produce the 3 major estrogens so unless you are one of the 3% who are painfully thin, you're producing lots of estrogens, they only drop 20-40% during menopause anyway, it's progesterone that drops to ziltch).
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Re: Chronic Fatigue, Hypothyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, Folic Acid

Post by DreamOn » Thu May 20, 2010 1:03 am

Muse-Inc wrote:I hated perimenopause! Dreadful time....The emotional rollercoaster is extreme as body hormones fluctuate wildly from day to day. My loved ones and friends even though something was dreadfully wrong with me during that period.
Me too!!! I am usually a calm, rational person but I felt like a crazy woman!

I went through menopause early, at age 42. So I was in the throes of perimenopause in my late 30s. I had no idea what was happening to me. I certainly didn't expect to be at the threshold of menopause! It was not a pleasant time for me or anyone around me. My behavior was erratic and I felt like I was going to jump out of my skin.

I am happy to report that I survived, the lunatic inside me went away, and all is well again. Whew!