Legality of DME supplying USED machines

[SleepingUgly]

Is it legal for a DME to supply a patient with a USED CPAP machine when the patient's insurance is renting the machine for a period of months, and at the end of that time frame, the patient owns the machine?

[Judy R]

I don't know if the DME can give you a used xpap machine, however... before I got my machine, I used an oxygen machine, that was used, in which I had to sign a purchase/rental agreement. When the Dr. finally got my study back, and wrote the script for a xpap machine, I told the DME, that I won't need the oxygen machine, and that the amount of the down payment I put on it, needed to be applied to my new xpap machine. And it was. I sure though that someone here with more wisdom will be better at helping you.

[cpapqueen1]

nothing states you have to give a new unit.

[SleepingUgly]

Seems a little inappropriate to bill the insurance the same regardless of whether you give the patient a brand new machine or a used one...

DMEs: What say you? Is this allowable?

[Slinky]

I have read users say that at the end of their insurance rental period they would get a brand new device - but I am NOT at all sure they knew what they were talking about and were just mis-led by their DME provider or even just misunderstood.

I could see where a provider MIGHT deliver a used device to tide the user over until the provider could order in a particular brand and model they didn't have on the shelf. But that should only be fore a period of a week or two.

And I could even see the wisdom of providing a used device until the user has established good compliance and THEN providing a new, unused device given the dismal success rate of new CPAP users.

But to provide a used device and not replace it w/a brand new one before or at the time it is paid in full I would think THAT would HAVE to be illegal. Unless it were at a drastically reduced price, for instance to someone of limited means or uninsured and paying out of pocket and making it clear to the user that it was a used device.

[LinkC]

But to provide a used device and not replace it w/a brand new one before or at the time it is paid in full THAT would HAVE to be illegal.

Why? If you and/or your insurance accept a used machine after agreeing to pay full price, it's "shame on you". When stupid becomes illegal, the jails will overflow...

[El Pap]

But to provide a used device and not replace it w/a brand new one before or at the time it is paid in full THAT would HAVE to be illegal. Unless it were at a drastically reduced price, for instance to someone of limited means or uninsured and paying out of pocket and making it clear to the user that it was a used device.

That's exactly what Apria tried to do to me when I first started treatment many years ago. They gave me a used Remstar for the rental period. When the insurance company bought the machine, I called Apria, and they told me to keep the rental. It took a surprising amount of complaining to get them to relent and replace the machine with a new one, but they eventually did.

[BlackSpinner]

When stupid becomes illegal, the jails will overflow...

They already do. Besides that is what fraud legislation is about. And health and safety standards.

[grady61]

theres probably plenty of people that would assume its a new unit they come acrossed a site like cpaptalk.com. thus not knowing to check those blower and therapy hours. Maybe the dme's oughtta be forced to inform clients and have them provide a signature that they are aware that the machine is used. I for one have a machine thats not data capable because my doc called in a bipap and I picked it up and not knowing there was even such a thing as smart card etc..Which brings up another question do these dme's provide some of these docs with kickbacks is what ive wondered. Ive often wondered how many cpap machines,o2 concentrators etc it takes to earn a pair of tickets to the Cavs game.

[Catnap]

My DME routinely gives out refurbished units as "new." They did not tell me this initially, but while explaining that I could try out the machine, my insurance would rent it, blah blah blah, I asked what they do with the machines that are returned, knowing that many people do not follow through with therapy. Without blinking an eye, he said they refurbish them "like new" and restock them. When I subsequently returned my machine (as it was not the one prescribed -- not sure if this was an oversight or deliberate, although they were very snarky about it when I took it back), they took back everything except the extra water tank they'd supplied, saying they could not reuse that as it was considered a consumable. Ironically, the water tank was the only part of the machine that was unused and still sealed in its original packaging. BTW, I still have it if anyone can use it. It's for a Fisher & Paykel SleepSense machine.