My boyfriend has apnea but refuses to treat with a machine

[Rachel.]

We are both overweight, but he has been sleeping on his back his entire life and I tend to sleep on my side (he's also 31, older than I am but not that old!). I snore maybe once a week; he snores loudly every single night and often the sound will wake him up. Though he hasn't been officially diagnosed with apnea (he's self-employed without health insurance, and we're not married so I can't put him on my company plan), it does run in his family and his symptoms align with that diagnosis.

The snoring is not the problem for me, though. I can wear earplugs. I am concerned that his quality and quantity of sleep is practically nonexistent. He is also very self-conscious about the snoring, no matter how much I tell him I'm happy as long as he is actually sleeping! but he's MORE self-conscious about the prospect of wearing a mask to bed. So, I was wondering if there are any apnea treatments that do not involve wearing a breathing apparatus. He is not interested in the no-mask machines, I showed them to him. I mean, is there surgery or something else that can be done? We're both major foodies (he's a culinary school grad and quite the foreign food connoisseur) so it's unlikely that significant weight loss will ever occur.

Thanks in advance for any tips. I know this is a cpap website and I'm looking for non-cpap solutions, but I didn't see any other forum that was relevant to apnea. <3

[LinkC]

While technically he IS sleeping when he snores, it is not a healthy sleep. If apnea "runs in his family" he SHOULD be aware that treatment isn't really optional. You take care of it or you die younger than you should (and feel like cr@p in the meantime!)

It's time for a wake-up call (pun intended!). Ignoring it isn't the answer. One of you has to be the adult...it just MIGHT be you! And I don't think there IS a "non-cpap" answer.

I hope you post back with a happy ending...

[MoneyGal]

If there was an effective non-CPAP solution, the people on this forum would have found it. This group of users has, I warrant, tested every aspect of CPAP machines from here to there and back again. We look for, read about, post and discuss ALL the potential non-CPAP solutions to our apnea. What it comes down to is that CPAP is the gold standard for treating (not curing ) OSA right now.

We know, too, about the mask being "embarrassing."

The issue, though, is that your boyfriend is looking at the negatives of treatment without any idea of the positives. If you look around on this forum, you will find people - like me - waxing rhapsodic about the improvement in their quality of life since starting treatment (and many people who are not rhapsodic, but who are actively working on maximizing their treatment to restore some quality of life).

Any chance you can get him into a sleep study? How much influence do you have on him? What if you provided gentle but firm and non-negotiable requests for him to take care of this - for himself, and for you, and for your future together?

[DragonFire]

I agree with MoneyGal.
while perfectly adapted to CPAP at home for work I travel alot and like to camp out in the wild, so while CPAP helped me out I was looking for a way out because I was swallowing a lot of air due to my high pressure set and the inconvenience while on the move.
I went for UPPP. Well, believe it or not one year later my AHI was the same as before surgery even if in the meanwhile I have lost 10-15 pounds (I am clinically not obese just 10-15 pounds overweight).
So I am still on CPAP. I am happy I did my surgery because it lowered the necessary pressure and I wake up less bloated.
My father a non-treated OSA sufferer died at 67 (unexplained heart failure) and his father died at 63 (I cannot known the reason but he was a loud snorer).

Bottom line, non treating OSA with CPAP is a recipe for trouble. Results might vary but they are never too good .......

Cheers

F.

[Wulfman]

We are both overweight, but he has been sleeping on his back his entire life and I tend to sleep on my side (he's also 31, older than I am but not that old!). I snore maybe once a week; he snores loudly every single night and often the sound will wake him up. Though he hasn't been officially diagnosed with apnea (he's self-employed without health insurance, and we're not married so I can't put him on my company plan), it does run in his family and his symptoms align with that diagnosis.

The snoring is not the problem for me, though. I can wear earplugs. I am concerned that his quality and quantity of sleep is practically nonexistent. He is also very self-conscious about the snoring, no matter how much I tell him I'm happy as long as he is actually sleeping! but he's MORE self-conscious about the prospect of wearing a mask to bed. So, I was wondering if there are any apnea treatments that do not involve wearing a breathing apparatus. He is not interested in the no-mask machines, I showed them to him. I mean, is there surgery or something else that can be done? We're both major foodies (he's a culinary school grad and quite the foreign food connoisseur) so it's unlikely that significant weight loss will ever occur.

Thanks in advance for any tips. I know this is a cpap website and I'm looking for non-cpap solutions, but I didn't see any other forum that was relevant to apnea. <3

He doesn't have health insurance.......and you're asking about (or he's considering) SURGERY?
All sorts of surgical procedures are and have been discussed here. Unfortunately, the majority of them are only marginally successful.......and the patient STILL has to use a CPAP or Bi-Level machine.

If he stops breathing periodically between his snoring, that's "apnea"......lack of breath......and he needs to treat his condition.

There are quite a few people who have acquired the equipment on their own......without having sleep studies and are self-treating. It's not all "rocket science" and with some research, it can be done. It's becoming more prevalent in these times with high insurance and medical costs.

He needs to get started or it's only going to get worse and then he's going to die an early death by one or more of the "diseases" that this condition starts.


Den

[Fred D]

I know laying out the money to pay for a sleep study is not an easy thing to do much less think about BUT you might call around to the labs in your area and talk to them; explain you don't have insurance and see if they will work with you on paying the cost out. Maybe even lowering the price so that it won't hurt so much to in the pocket.
Please don't dismiss the idea until you try every resource available. If he does have apnea (and it sounds like you are convinced he does) then it is something that will not correct itself on its own. His quality of life will only diminish over time and it will be so subtle that he won't even notice.
If he is lucky enough to be able to be helped by using a cpap instead of a bipap then the cost would certainly be more affordable. As for as having to wear a mask, well nobody wants to do that but after you start feeling better it is not an issue.
Besides, you only wear it when you want to SLEEP in bed.............

Fred

[tattooyu]

Well, he has a choice to make. Hopefully, you'll help him make the RIGHT choice. We've all been there.

My dad died in 2001 at 62 from complications of Diabetes, but he also had apnea and didn't use his machine. I honestly feel he would have been around a lot longer had he used his CPAP machine.

I feel I was on a slippery slope to an early death. I could feel my body deteriorating, and I'm only 36.

He needs to swallow his pride and do what's right or suffer the consequences. The choice is his.

[DreamOn]

Hi Rachel,

We can all understand your boyfriend's self-consciousness regarding the mask and being hooked up to a machine at night. There is an adjustment period--both physically and emotionally. We have felt that way too, but most of us got over that feeling very quickly. Not many people actually see us all geared up anyway. We do meet people here in their 20s and 30s with sleep apnea, so he's not alone!

It sounds like you're an understanding and supportive person who has his long-term wellbeing at heart. If you reassure him that you're comfortable with it, that should help him to accept it too. I hope so, anyway.

If I had my choice I certainly would rather not have to use a CPAP machine! It's a hassle sometimes. But untreated sleep apnea caused a lot of damage to my body over the years. Some of the harm done is probably permanent, while other problems my body is healing from, now that my body isn't oxygen-starved every night due to the apneas. I feel SO much better now!!!

It's important to start treating this early. The effects of untreated sleep apnea can be very severe. It can shorten your life. It can lead to increased blood pressure, heart attack, stroke, heart arrhythmias, nocturia (frequent nighttime bathroom trips), headaches, fatigue, memory and concentration problems, weight gain, diabetes, GERD, depression and anxiety, impotence, car accidents, etc.

There's a nonprofit organization called Awake in America that helps individuals without health insurance, with inadequate health insurance, or without the financial means to obtain a free sleep study. He should qualify for their assistance. Their website is http://www.awakeinamerica.org/. Click on the left side of that website where it says "Sleep Study Relief Program FAQ" for more information. They also supply xPAP equipment to those who can't afford it.

We don't hear many surgery success stories, and people usually need to also use a CPAP machine afterwards. So, even though it can be a hassle and initially embarrassing, CPAP provides the best therapy! I hope that your boyfriend chooses to be healthy. It really isn't that big of a deal. The CPAP machine doesn't breathe for you. It's just blowing air in to keep the airway open so you don't stop breathing repeatedly throughout the night.

I hope he'll join us! The more "hoseheads," the merrier! And you're welcome to stick around too.

~ DreamOn

[fadedgirl]

People who don't get their sleep apnea treated are either uninformed or have a death-wish. If he's the latter, good luck to you. If he's the former, compile all the information that you can about it and relay it to him!! Its very serious, I've had two people die several decades earlier than they should have due to not treating their apnea.

Stupid. Senseless. Absolutely preventable!


ALSO, if I were you, I'd let it be known that I think a man in a CPAP Mask is about the sexiest thing on the planet. Seriously! Use your feminine wiles woman. And just imagine what awaits you after your man gets some real sleep for once. Oh yea!



PS: I've never had a sleep study & I got everything I needed with no prescription & no medical oversight. If one is sure they have sleep apnea, it can be done all online, just take the time and do the research. Obviously this isn't ideal, but its better than the slow death that is Sleep Apnea. Or just marry the poor sap!!

[OldLincoln]

Well.... there is a surgery that is only used when all other OSA treatments fail and that is a tracheotomy where they make a hole in the upper chest and insert a tube into the airway to the lungs. They install a cap on the skin surface that one pulls open at night to breath through (it has a screen to keep out bugs) and for day use you push it in and breath normally.

I don't understand all the maintenance & risks involved but if I were 30 I'd be inclined to take a look. Of course without insurance to foot the bill it may be out of season for most.

[no_more_headaches]

I have been on the hose for two years now.
Since I am a gadget freak, I bought a pulse oximeter (CMS-50E) to measure myself once in a while.

My wife snores loudly and I asked if I could get her to wear it one night. Basically its a wristwatch with an attached finger mit.
Well the results were very interesting it showed her oxygen level dropping through the night to 75%. I did it a followup night see if it was fluke. Same results.
I then got her to wear my mask and the pulse ox for 4 hours from 6am to 10am. Her numbers were rock solid.
So after educating her on the collateral damage from bad sleep and low O2: Diabetes, Gerd, Heart damage, Weight Retention, and eventual death.
I got her to get a sleep doctor appointment and brought in our data. The doctor basically said I already diagnosed her.

He then scheduled an official sleep study and the results were that she did not have apneas but she had severe hypopneas as a result of labored shallow breathing.

We are now both on the hose and after getting use to it she is reporting how much better she feels now. Now desire for afternoon naps.
She does talk about how harder it is to get out of bed in the morning because she is rising from a much deeper level of sleep that she hasn't experienced in many years and frankly she is enjoying sleeping so much more now rather than staying up till she is so exhausted that she falls asleep. She would get a lot of gerd as well which I think is also starting to subside.

[roster]

I mean, is there surgery or something else that can be done?

There are other options:

-Maxillomandibular advancement surgery (Very expensive, long recovery period, very effective cure for some people, highly invasive)

-Airway surgery (Expensive, painful recovery, often not effective, lots of permanent side effects, highly invasive)

-Mandibular advancement device (Expensive, low compliance rate, side effects, rarely 100% effective)

-Skin-lined tracheotomy (Very expensive, highly invasive, permanent dangerous side effects, usually 100% permanent cure)

-CPAP (Inexpensive, noninvasive, minor side effects, low compliance rate, incovenient, often ineffective)

As a general rule, CPAP should always be the first commitment the patient makes. After a lengthy commitment period fails, other options may be considered. The patient should spend considerable time to fully educate himself on each treatment and interview several doctors (sleep doctors, ENT surgeons, sleep dentists) before proceeding beyond CPAP.

Based on your description, I am not optimistic about your boyfriend's future health.

The very least he could do is train himself to sleep on his sides or his tummy (Falcon position). That might help. If his snoring declines it is one indication that it is helping but likely not curing his problem.

Personally if I were in my thirties today, I would be prepared to mortgage my house and have maxillomandibular advancement surgery.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

[torontoCPAPguy]

We are both overweight, but he has been sleeping on his back his entire life and I tend to sleep on my side (he's also 31, older than I am but not that old!). I snore maybe once a week; he snores loudly every single night and often the sound will wake him up. Though he hasn't been officially diagnosed with apnea (he's self-employed without health insurance, and we're not married so I can't put him on my company plan), it does run in his family and his symptoms align with that diagnosis.

The snoring is not the problem for me, though. I can wear earplugs. I am concerned that his quality and quantity of sleep is practically nonexistent. He is also very self-conscious about the snoring, no matter how much I tell him I'm happy as long as he is actually sleeping! but he's MORE self-conscious about the prospect of wearing a mask to bed. So, I was wondering if there are any apnea treatments that do not involve wearing a breathing apparatus. He is not interested in the no-mask machines, I showed them to him. I mean, is there surgery or something else that can be done? We're both major foodies (he's a culinary school grad and quite the foreign food connoisseur) so it's unlikely that significant weight loss will ever occur.

Thanks in advance for any tips. I know this is a cpap website and I'm looking for non-cpap solutions, but I didn't see any other forum that was relevant to apnea. <3

He should be more concerned about the possibility of a long life with untreated APNEA. At 31 he's going strong I'll bet. But if you were to check his O2 saturation and blood pressure I would be willing to bet that a life insurance company would not touch him with a ten foot pole. HE is the one that the write "he died peacefully in his sleep" on the headstore. You can take it from me.... if he doesn't pop or split his aorta, he is a prime candidate for a whole plethora of other afflictions, each of which is terminal (dead serious).

I am not going to bother explaining to you all the afflictions and the benefits of being obese. Just do me one favour... don't tell me that he or you smoke. If you do according to my bud who is a cardiologist, your odds of living much into your 40's gets pretty slim looking. And I dare you to find a 50 year old in your situation. Probably pretty hard to do unless you visit the cemetary.

Not to scare you or anything. Losing weight is tough. My wife lost 150 pounds last year just before having her knee replaced and is scheduled for the other knee in May. The weight loss took her, incredibly, from uncontrolled diabetes using two different kinds of insulin to ZERO diabetees.

You can take it from here.... I think I've given you the starter talk. It gets worse from this point forward. There is only one way aside from surgery that I am aware of in treating serious APNEA and that is losing weight, using a blower and in very few cases, using a mouth appliance that does a half arsed job at best.

What you want to do is be seeing an MD specialist that you trust. You don't have to believe me. Just tell me he doesn't smoke. Please.

Otherwise please send the address for the wake as I haven't had dinner yet.

[torontoCPAPguy]

Well the results were very interesting it showed her oxygen level dropping through the night to 75%. I did it a followup night see if it was fluke. Same results.
I then got her to wear my mask and the pulse ox for 4 hours from 6am to 10am. Her numbers were rock solid.

Low SO2 = high blood pressure. Directly inverse. In fact mine went up to 280 over some small number. They were sure I wouldn't make it through the night and called the family together to say their goodbyes. I, of course, was in a coma. Fasst asleep. I survived after almost a month on full life support with tubes running everywhere and crapping into a diaper I am told. The tubes were no fun either, one of the three arterial taps popped from the high blood pressure (long story) and the bed filled up with my blood as the matresses these days are plasticized.

Just remember that low blood oxygen saturation is directly inverse to blood pressure and you have the picture. Things that this does include such niceties as popping your aorta right off your heart, heart attack, valves going defunct, strokes (big time) and so on.

Just thought I'd throw that in to cheer you guys up. It's been a slow night and my wife had a rough day at the hospital.

[no_more_headaches]

Great additional feedback!

I forgot about the blood pressure when I was typing. One of the reasons I went in for the study myself is that I recently became a kidney donor to my wife. She had years of uncontrolled blood pressure which eventually led to her kidneys failing. I donated and so far things are great. I knew however I was at greater risk being on one kidney so I immediately changed my primary doctor to an internist and went for the sleep study. My resting heart rate and blood pressure are much better now. Although my blood pressure did jump for a week or so recently but I think that was stress or food related as it has subsequently dropped back to normal.

Well the results were very interesting it showed her oxygen level dropping through the night to 75%. I did it a followup night see if it was fluke. Same results.
I then got her to wear my mask and the pulse ox for 4 hours from 6am to 10am. Her numbers were rock solid.

Low SO2 = high blood pressure. Directly inverse. In fact mine went up to 280 over some small number. They were sure I wouldn't make it through the night and called the family together to say their goodbyes. I, of course, was in a coma. Fasst asleep. I survived after almost a month on full life support with tubes running everywhere and crapping into a diaper I am told. The tubes were no fun either, one of the three arterial taps popped from the high blood pressure (long story) and the bed filled up with my blood as the matresses these days are plasticized.

Just remember that low blood oxygen saturation is directly inverse to blood pressure and you have the picture. Things that this does include such niceties as popping your aorta right off your heart, heart attack, valves going defunct, strokes (big time) and so on.

Just thought I'd throw that in to cheer you guys up. It's been a slow night and my wife had a rough day at the hospital.