Resmed new Internet Policy

[jnk]

I agree with the poster that pointed out that anything stupid the larger companies do may serve as an incentive to the smaller companies to step up their game.

I also honestly feel that although buyers of PAP equipment over the Internet presently are a niche market, a smaller manufacturing company could explode onto the scene in this country to give the big boys a run if the smaller company targeted us well.

I mean, it is getting to the point where nobody agrees to buy anything without searching the Internet for information. Imagine if the top several hits when searching "CPAP" at Google were posts here and at other forums touting the machine and software from a smaller company providing efficacy software and a good machine at a great price. Some searchers would be convinced to buy the machine outright online if it was cheaper than the copays.

And even if the searchers did not buy their machine online, some would still demand that machine from brick-and-mortar DMEs based on what the customers read online. So even if the B&M DMEs didn't like what the company was doing, they could be forced by informed customers to play along.

Niche markets can explode and become the major influence on the mainstream if targeted skillfully. The Internet makes that possible. I know I would personally do my part to support such a company.

Don't get me wrong. I think ResMed makes a great product and provides the best info from the screen to patients. It is a shame that it is such a big company that is targeting us the best in that way. The smaller companies can't compete in the R&D and the marketing, so why not target Internet forums by meeting our needs?

Arguments? Comments? Am I too much of an ignorant dreamer? Now's the chance for all you earlier poll-takers to flame me!

[dsm]

I agree with the poster that pointed out that anything stupid the larger companies do may serve as an incentive to the smaller companies to step up their game.

I also honestly feel that although buyers of PAP equipment over the Internet presently are a niche market, a smaller manufacturing company could explode onto the scene in this country to give the big boys a run if the smaller company targeted us well.

I mean, it is getting to the point where nobody agrees to buy anything without searching the Internet for information. Imagine if the top several hits when searching "CPAP" at Google were posts here and at other forums touting the machine and software from a smaller company providing efficacy software and a good machine at a great price. Some searchers would be convinced to buy the machine outright online if it was cheaper than the copays.

And even if the searchers did not buy their machine online, some would still demand that machine from brick-and-mortar DMEs based on what the customers read online. So even if the B&M DMEs didn't like what the company was doing, they could be forced by informed customers to play along.

Niche markets can explode and become the major influence on the mainstream if targeted skillfully. The Internet makes that possible. I know I would personally do my part to support such a company.

Don't get me wrong. I think ResMed makes a great product and provides the best info from the screen to patients. It is a shame that it is such a big company that is targeting us the best in that way. The smaller companies can't compete in the R&D and the marketing, so why not target Internet forums by meeting our needs?

Arguments? Comments? Am I too much of an ignorant dreamer? Now's the chance for all you earlier poll-takers to flame me!

Jeff,

In a broad sense what you say makes sense (as you nearly always do ) but the cold hard reality in regard to a small start-up taking on the big players today, may hit a lot of road bumps. Respironics and Resmed are locking up the technology with their flood of patent applications & a new commer has to be twice as smart to find alternatives.

We have seen this happen in the software industry where Microsoft went from an amazing driver & packager of PC of technology (not always their own) to a patent hoarding & bullying monolith trying to threaten others (esp the open source movement & Linux). Microsoft claimed to be the supporters of young imaginative developers laboring away in their garages when in fact they become the opposite.

Respironics & Resmed have been filing patents in droves for well over 10 years. They have thought out nearly all the cpap therapy options & sought to lock them up. From what I see there isn't a lot of space left. These companies are more than likely to start using their locked up patents to block newcommers into the market. Life unfortunately is like that.

One early example: In 1999 Healthdyne developed a Bilevel cpap that was a big leap forward in design - so far in front of the competition that it threatened Respironics business. The Healthdyne Bilevel was smaller (tiny) was quieter & added risetime settings. Respironics took Healthdyne to court for patent violation (the case was somewhat iffy & marginal but Respironics won) - that put Healthdyne into difficulty then Respironics bought them out & used Healthdyne's better design as the core for a new range of products. Healthdyne had a family of 3 very innovative machines at the time (cpap(the tranquility quest), tranquility auto & tranquility bilevel).

Letters to local representatives is a viable way to register protest at any apparent price fixing.

DSM

[billbolton]

Does anyone actually know what ResMed’s Minimum Internet Retail Price is and how it actually compares to typical Internet prices for the same products?

Reading through the whole section on Resmed's web site regarding US Internet Selling Policies is worthwhile, before shooting from the hip It seems to me there's a lot of consumer-centric content in there.

Cheers,

Bill

[jnk]

Jeff,

In a broad sense what you say makes sense (as you nearly always do ) but the cold hard reality in regard to a small start-up taking on the big players today, may hit a lot of road bumps. Respironics and Resmed are locking up the technology with their flood of patent applications & a new commer has to be twice as smart to find alternatives.

We have seen this happen in the software industry where Microsoft went from an amazing driver & packager of PC of technology (not always their own) to a patent hoarding & bullying monolith trying to threaten others (esp the open source movement & Linux). Microsoft claimed to be the supporters of young imaginative developers laboring away in their garages when in fact they become the opposite.

Respironics & Resmed have been filing patents in droves for well over 10 years. They have thought out nearly all the cpap therapy options & sought to lock them up. From what I see there isn't a lot of space left. These companies are more than likely to start using their locked up patents to block newcommers into the market. Life unfortunately is like that.

One early example: In 1999 Healthdyne developed a Bilevel cpap that was a big leap forward in design - so far in front of the competition that it threatened Respironics business. The Healthdyne Bilevel was smaller (tiny) was quieter & added risetime settings. Respironics took Healthdyne to court for patent violation (the case was somewhat iffy & marginal but Respironics won) - that put Healthdyne into difficulty then Respironics bought them out & used Healthdyne's better design as the core for a new range of products. Healthdyne had a family of 3 very innovative machines at the time (cpap(the tranquility quest), tranquility auto & tranquility bilevel).

Letters to local representatives is a viable way to register protest at any apparent price fixing.

DSM

Good points. Well said.

I was thinking more along the lines of a DeVilbiss straight CPAP with efficacy software customized for us being offered at a super-low price using present technology. The technology of the blower is good enough now if they could only (1) package it with software that was customized for our needs and then (2) seriously undercut the prices of the monster companies so Internet sellers could promote them.

I realize I must be missing the bigger picture in all of this. I'm sure if it was possible, it would already have been done. I just can't figure out why the little guys have to try to take on the big boys head-to-head when there are other ways to grab some market share.

[jnk]

Does anyone actually know what ResMed’s Minimum Internet Retail Price is and how it actually compares to typical Internet prices for the same products?

The minimum allowable price is whatever ResMed wants it to be. The point is, imagine that the price cpap.com posts were the price you had to pay, as opposed to the price when you click on the link to get the actual price.

Reading through the whole section on Resmed's web site regarding US Internet Selling Policies is worthwhile, before shooting from the hip It seems to me there's a lot of consumer-centric content in there.

Cheers,

Bill

What I read at that link is an attempt to put down what online sellers do as opposed to what brick-and-mortar DMEs are supposed to do in this country but most of the time never seem to get around to, since there is no actual financial incentive for them to do it.

What point in ResMed's info you link to indicates that hip-shooting has occurred? People worry about prices going up. People do that. There is no proof the prices will go up. But there is no proof they won't, either. All that is known for sure is that ResMed decides based on an attempt not to offend the ones they have made clear are their real customers that they are most concerned about--brick-and-mortar DMEs.

I'd rather buy from a company that considered me the customer. I think a smaller company should figure out a way to make that happen.

This is my call to arms: Hey you smaller companies! Convince me I am your customer, and I will spend all day typing about it all across the Internet! Are you listening?!

jeff

[billbolton]

The minimum allowable price is whatever ResMed wants it to be.

So you don't know what it is then.

What I read at that link is an attempt to put down what online sellers do as opposed to what brick-and-mortar DMEs are supposed to do in this country but most of the time never seem to get around to, since there is no actual financial incentive for them to do it.

Huh?

I think a smaller company should figure out a way to make that happen.

So there's a business opportunity for you

Of course it might be bit trickier than your think.........

Cheers,

Bill

[jnk]

The minimum allowable price is whatever ResMed wants it to be.

So you don't know what it is then.

No. And you don't know what it will be next week, do you?

What I read at that link is an attempt to put down what online sellers do as opposed to what brick-and-mortar DMEs are supposed to do in this country but most of the time never seem to get around to, since there is no actual financial incentive for them to do it.

Huh?

When ResMed talks about how important it is for patients in the US to get hands-on help from others, that is talking about the help the local DMEs are supposed to be giving. But once the machine is sold, the DME has no way to request money from insurance for spending time helping the patient. It is a big problem here with the system. DMEs are not paid to help patients.

I think a smaller company should figure out a way to make that happen.

So there's a business opportunity for you

Of course it might be bit trickier than your think.........

Cheers,

Bill

I am looking to spend money, not make it. But if a small company wanted to sell me a good straight CPAP with Excel-compatible efficacy software on the cheap, believe-you-me that company would have my ears and eyes at "hello."

[patientadvocate]

As an online provider of sleep therapy equipment, I have seen, read and analysed the entire policy. What you see on Resmed's site is only 1/10th the policy that we have received. I think that if seen by all cpap users, you would be offended by the hoops we all have to jump through just to be able to sell and provide our patients affordable healthcare. A direct questions was sent to Resmed asking," Can an internet company advertise the minimum price but sell at a lower price if not advertised on site." Response was, yes as long as they come to your office or call you. Well, that defeats the entire internet purpose. With that in mind, every avenue for us to provide you with affordable equipment from Resmed has been taken away. An example of the price difference would be this, Resmed Autoset II with heated humidifier would go from an average of 640.00 to a mandated price of 1092.00. NO DISCOUNTING ALLOWED. I really cannot stress enough how this community needs to stand up and help all your internet providers oppose this policy. The many of your internet providers work relentlessly to fight for all of you. We all need your help. Just remember that we all could sell these products for more money and of course we make more money but I know that I started my company to make sleep therapy equipment affordable, not out of reach

[dsm]

As an online provider of sleep therapy equipment, I have seen, read and analysed the entire policy. What you see on Resmed's site is only 1/10th the policy that we have received. I think that if seen by all cpap users, you would be offended by the hoops we all have to jump through just to be able to sell and provide our patients affordable healthcare. A direct questions was sent to Resmed asking," Can an internet company advertise the minimum price but sell at a lower price if not advertised on site." Response was, yes as long as they come to your office or call you. Well, that defeats the entire internet purpose. With that in mind, every avenue for us to provide you with affordable equipment from Resmed has been taken away. An example of the price difference would be this, Resmed Autoset II with heated humidifier would go from an average of 640.00 to a mandated price of 1092.00. NO DISCOUNTING ALLOWED. I really cannot stress enough how this community needs to stand up and help all your internet providers oppose this policy. The many of your internet providers work relentlessly to fight for all of you. We all need your help. Just remember that we all could sell these products for more money and of course we make more money but I know that I started my company to make sleep therapy equipment affordable, not out of reach

Resmed have been doing that for some time here in Australia. The online sellers will often say you need to call in to our office to collect. This was because Resmed was being beaten up by their biggest resellers who are the ones trying to control the market. The online resellers have found some ways around this (needless to say I won't publicly go into that).

Resmed are between a rock and a hard place in trying to please their customers. The bigger ones today & into the near future are the chain store outlets like here in Australia these are Chemist chains & healthcare chains.

The challenge is keeping the market analysts happy with your sales predictions (based on commitments from the bigger resellers & institutions like hospitals etc: ). Our capitalist economy puts a lot of pressure on meeting the market & analysts expectations.

DSM

[patientadvocate]

I couldn't agree with you more. The problem is the patient is the one who suffers. Another example of Wall Street running America and possibly Australia as well. Keep up the post.

[robmax]

A direct questions was sent to Resmed asking," Can an internet company advertise the minimum price but sell at a lower price if not advertised on site." Response was, yes as long as they come to your office or call you. Well, that defeats the entire internet purpose. With that in mind, every avenue for us to provide you with affordable equipment from Resmed has been taken away. An example of the price difference would be this, Resmed Autoset II with heated humidifier would go from an average of 640.00 to a mandated price of 1092.00. NO DISCOUNTING ALLOWED.

How would the above be different from some companies' present policies? For example, cpap.com currently gives the MSRP for the PR1 machine and Comfortgel mask, but says "call for price," i.e., the real price. So discounting would (continue to) be permitted if I read your words correctly.

I don't see this as a major change or proscription of discounting if Resmed permits the procedure you've stated.

[BlackSpinner]

And add to all this that we in Canada can no longer buy Resmed products over the internet which doubles or more our costs at the same non service dme's - ah yes - masks that can be seem as fitting well from over 6 feet away when held up to the face!

[torontoCPAPguy]

In Canada the mere suggestion of a manufacturer set price is a CRIMINAL offence. It is price fixing. Period.

Are there no laws in the USA that prevent price fixing? I was sure that there were.

[Slinky]

There were/are such laws in the USA, but our all-wise Supreme Court ruled about 2 years ago that under certain circumstances manufacturers could set minimum advertised prices. Resmed and Respironics were quick to jump on the bandwagon of "certain circumstances".

[ozij]

Don't get me wrong. I think ResMed makes a great product and provides the best info from the screen to patients. It is a shame that it is such a big company that is targeting us the best in that way.

Pssst, Jeff! Better than the data on the Sandman?
I'm not saying, just asking.

O.