BiPAP ASV - Backup Power Question

[Kiralynx]

The battery in that scooter is only 12V, 12 AH. Would not power the BiPAP ASV for very long, probably not even a night. Eeven if your ASV used just 30 watts, that battery would be good for about 5 hours.

My ASV is the same one BB has, so usage, on passover humidification, should be no more. (My settings are 6, 10, 14, which is slightly lower than BBs.)

I think, although I am not sure, that that scooter uses two of the 12V 12AH... I often get up once to hit the necessary, so it would be possible to switch batteries. Alternatively, I just make do with five hours of sleep during an emergency, and the two batteries would yield two partial nights.

If our power's going to be out for more than two days, we'll have to leave town for other reasons.

[Kiralynx]

Checking to see how BB's lab experiments are going.....

[BleepingBeauty]

Checking to see how BB's lab experiments are going.....

My experiments were done soon after I received the inverter. I used the battery and inverter twice. (See viewtopic.php?p=445928#p445928)

Results: Running the ASV (no HH) at 12/12/22 gave me just under 6 hours of battery time. (There were still two of four charge-level lights on the battery when the alarm sounded; obviously, the battery at half-power is not quite enough to keep the ASV going.) Do-able in an emergency, but I've decided to use my M Series APAP with the battery when needed, as I can get 27 hours of use from the battery at 12cm on that machine. (Even though almost six hours would suffice in a real pinch, I'm now accustomed to sleeping longer than that each night. So I'll use the battery with my backup machine.)

Kira, with your lower pressure settings, you might be able to get a full night out of your ASV with my setup.

[Kiralynx]

Kira, with your lower pressure settings, you might be able to get a full night out of your ASV with my setup.

That's a defnite possibility. I'm wondering if one, or both of us would get more using the direct DC... but if you're happy with your M series during an emergency, I don't guess you'll be experimenting further.

I'm going to have to research further with those scooter batteries.

[JohnBFisher]

... I'm wondering if one, or both of us would get more using the direct DC ...

Yes, you would the DC to DC converter for the BiPAP AutoSV is Respironics part number 1012975. But it is fairly expensive. CPAP.com lists it at about $170:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/DC-Pow ... Bipap.html

But yes, the battery will last longer if you use the converter (DC to DC) instead of an inverter (DC to AC).

[BleepingBeauty]

Kira, with your lower pressure settings, you might be able to get a full night out of your ASV with my setup.

That's a defnite possibility. I'm wondering if one, or both of us would get more using the direct DC... but if you're happy with your M series during an emergency, I don't guess you'll be experimenting further.

I'm going to have to research further with those scooter batteries.

Well, I'd rather be able to use the ASV in an emergency. But from what was said upthread, the adapter (at $165) might produce just another hour of battery time over what I'm getting with the inverter, so it's not worth the investment, to me. I can live with using my APAP when necessary.

I called batterygeek.net this morning (they manufacture my battery, and I just bought the inverter from them, too) to tell them how disappointed I am to be getting less than six hours out of my current setup (and to ask about returning the inverter). They said I can return it for a refund, no problem. But here's the (potential) great news:

Sean (the guy I've spoken with whenever I've called them) said that they're now manufacturing xpap batteries for ResMed VPAP machines in Europe, and those machines are 24V (like the ASV). So he's going to do a little research on whether that battery will also operate our ASV machines here and said he'll do his best to get back to me on that today. He'll see if they can "special order" one of those batteries for me (with the right power plug for the U.S.). When I inquired about the price difference between the battery I have and the one he's talking about, he said I could exchange my battery for the new one, with no additional cost. (I'm loving this company for their customer service.)

If he finds that this "European" battery will do the trick for us here, I'll ask about the price so I can tell you what it would cost to purchase one outright. I'll post an update after I hear back from him.

[Autopapdude]

Well, BB, I used to have a battery backup, with several car batteries and an auxiliary power outlet, with a line run from the garage. Since then, I have a house generator for power outages, and it does the job nicely in terms of powering critical things (obviously the xpap is a critical thing).

[BleepingBeauty]

Well, BB, I used to have a battery backup, with several car batteries and an auxiliary power outlet, with a line run from the garage. Since then, I have a house generator for power outages, and it does the job nicely in terms of powering critical things (obviously the xpap is a critical thing).

Hi, APD. I'd considered a generator when I first moved here, but the noise it produces is unappealing. If I typically lost power for days at a time, that would certainly be the way to go, regardless of the noise. But since my power outages usually last for hours, not days, an xpap battery suffices. (It's also quite portable, so I can take it with me if/when I travel.)

I don't normally experience hurricanes, here in the mountains of AZ. But we've had two storms this winter that qualified (the first, in early December, produced winds of about 90mph, and the most recent storm gave us winds in excess of 80mph). Even so, the power outages were relatively short-lived, thankfully.

[Autopapdude]

Well, it can be noisy, but it isn't that near the house. I have a pretty big property, and the line from it goes about 300' to the garage, which is on the opposite side of the house from the bedroom. So, it does do the job. Yes, 90 MPH is a wee bit much for Arizona--kinda like a cat 1 Hurricane without the cyclonic currents.

[BleepingBeauty]

Well, it can be noisy, but it isn't that near the house. I have a pretty big property, and the line from it goes about 300' to the garage, which is on the opposite side of the house from the bedroom. So, it does do the job. Yes, 90 MPH is a wee bit much for Arizona--kinda like a cat 1 Hurricane without the cyclonic currents.

My concerns re: noise are two-fold. First, my bedroom is right behind my garage. Second, my neighborhood is populated but extremely quiet at night (except for the coyotes when they all get going ). I didn't want to disturb my neighbors any more than I wanted to disturb myself. So the xpap battery is the solution that works for me here. But if I lived where you do, I'd definitely use a generator (and earplugs).

[Autopapdude]

My concerns re: noise are two-fold. First, my bedroom is right behind my garage. Second, my neighborhood is populated but extremely quiet at night (except for the coyotes when they all get going ). I didn't want to disturb my neighbors any more than I wanted to disturb myself. So the xpap battery is the solution that works for me here. But if I lived where you do, I'd definitely use a generator (and earplugs).

I only have one neighbor, except for the lake behind the property. The one on the opposite side of the garage (fortunately) is deaf as a post and uses two hearing aids. So, that helps. No coyotes, except for a few dogs in the neighborhood, and they bark sporadically. My solution when the generator goes off ( quite a distance from the bedroom) is to put on the good ole battery powered iPod, roll over on my side and let the autopap take over.

[Kiralynx]

If he finds that this "European" battery will do the trick for us here, I'll ask about the price so I can tell you what it would cost to purchase one outright. I'll post an update after I hear back from him.

BB,

I look forward to that! A 24 volt battery could be highly worthwhile, if I can scrape together the $$ for it. Of course, going without my Bipap ASV is... well... I'd rather go without sleep.

[Kiralynx]

Well, it can be noisy, but it isn't that near the house. I have a pretty big property, and the line from it goes about 300' to the garage, which is on the opposite side of the house from the bedroom. So, it does do the job. Yes, 90 MPH is a wee bit much for Arizona--kinda like a cat 1 Hurricane without the cyclonic currents.

Well, as I live in hurricane country (and lost around $10,000 in food during Katrina, though we were lucky the house did not flood), a house generator would be nice.

Problem isn't affording a generator. Problem is affording the work to have a concrete pad put in for it, and the installation.

[timbalionguy]

Long-term, I plan to put in a big generator. There's a nice 10 kW, single phase generator coming from my work place in a couple of years, and I will use that. Will need a pad and shed, etc. (I can have a 20 kW right now, bit it is 3 phase, and won't like the unbalanced load of single phase.)

I could use a portable generator, but all the good locations for one are on the windward side of the house and garage. When I would need them most, it would be pounded with 60+ mph wind, and rain/snow.

My new VPAP Auto 25 also needs 24 volts. On these machines, I do not know whether the 24 volts needs to be regulated (exactly 24 volts all the time) or unregulated (22-30 volts, for instance). I also am wondering this for the BiPAP Auto SV unit. I need to look for a 11-16 volt in (or better yet, 11-30 volts in), 24 volt out DC-DC converter, which should be available from a power supply manufacturer for way less than what ResMed wants for one (Doesn't come with box, connectors, etc. which I can easily supply).

The 24 volt battery is a good idea, especially if you have to use an inverter. the higher the input voltage to an inverter (that is designed for the higher input voltage!), the better the system will work. Even if you have to use a DC-DC converter to get a regulated 24 volts, 24 volts in will make it work more efficiently. Keep in mind though, from a watts-per-pound perspective, a 24 volt battery will weigh as much as a comparable 12 volt battery (of the same chemistry) capable of supplying the same number of watt-hours of power.

[BleepingBeauty]

Update:

I spoke with BatteryGeek.net this morning. Since I bought my battery from our host (and not directly from them, the manufacturer), I can't exchange it for the one I was told about that's being made for 24V ResMed machines in Europe. But the battery they make for use here in the U.S. which will power the ASV machines is: http://www.batterygeek.net/130Wh-Portab ... rygeek.htm It can output up to 26V. Unfortunately, there's no run-time chart for this one on the website (as there are for the batteries that are labeled specifically for use with CPAP machines). Caveat: The webpage reports a high output of both 26V and 28V. I was told the high was 26, so I'm guessing the 28 is a typo.

The 24 volt battery is a good idea, especially if you have to use an inverter. the higher the input voltage to an inverter (that is designed for the higher input voltage!), the better the system will work. Even if you have to use a DC-DC converter to get a regulated 24 volts, 24 volts in will make it work more efficiently. Keep in mind though, from a watts-per-pound perspective, a 24 volt battery will weigh as much as a comparable 12 volt battery (of the same chemistry) capable of supplying the same number of watt-hours of power.

FYI and FWIW, the webpage says that this PPS130 battery weighs just 2.4 lbs. (My C-222 12V battery weighs about 4.5 lbs.)

For my own situation, I'll return the Inverter and utilize my C-222 battery with the M Series APAP when necessary. The thing that really frosts me is, if I'd had an ASV machine from the get-go (or at least early enough in my therapy that I had yet to buy a backup battery for it), I could have saved money on a battery that will power the ASV that's half the weight of the one I have (which won't power the ASV by itself - or for long enough with the added inverter).