Still not sleeping good at all

[JeffH]

After my sleep study were the so called Doc said I needed a pressure increase from 13 to 15 and he recommended that I set up M-series up with a pressure of 15 and c-flex of three, I'm still waking up 4 to 6 times a night and according to my sleep reports my AHI has also gone up a bit (from around 1.3 to as high as 2..

I'm getting to my wits end. I am SICK of feeling like crap. I don't ever feel rested and am at a point that I dread going to bed at night.

This is so weird in that this started right before christmas and has been on going since then. Before that I'd sleep all night with one or two bathroom breaks and right back to sleep for the most part. Most nights were 7 to 9 hours of sleep with an average of 8 being the norm.

I think my last best hope is that I see my cardiologists on Monday and he's good. I'm going to tell him in detail were I'm at and hopefully he can help me get to the bottom of this. He is at OU Medical ctr. and it being a teaching hospital, they probably like cases like this.

I'm also open to any suggestions you guys have.....


Thanks

JeffH

[Catnapper]

Jeff, would it help if you took a nap during the day? At least you could get an extra hour or so of sleep toward a total. I am suggesting that you do what I won't do, as I am always afraid the nap will make me less sleepy at night. I am sometimes my own worst enemy.

Another suggestion is to move to another room to sleep, just to make a change. Your bed may be slightly too warm or cold, hard or soft, or the room too light. I have found when traveling that I sometimes actually sleep better, or that I didn't need that extra pillow or some other thing I thought was necessary.

Yet another, if the newer higher pressure doesn't work, split the difference between what the goofy doc suggested and where you were before that. Maybe the extra pressure is causing you to wake up just because it is different.

I hesitate to suggest a glass of milk because of the bathroom problem, but maybe some other form of L-tryptophan in a snack might help. Yogurt? Or maybe something like melatonin?

How about self-hypnosis? People here have reported that telling themselves not to take off the mask helped, so maybe have a talk with yourself as you go to bed to persuade yourself to wake up only once in the night might work. Couldn't hurt.

Most likely you have tried all those things, but maybe not. I hope something works soon for you.

Catnapper - Joanie

[ozij]

IIRC, after you sleep study, the doctor recommended a ResMed auto, set at 13-15 with EPR set by yourself at whatever felt good. That is not a Respironics fixed pressure of 15 with CFlex = 3.

If I didn't have an older Rx, I'd look for someone to give me an Rx so I could buy a ResMed Auto; I'd set it at 13-15 and try various levels of EPR. If that didn't work, I'd look for a sleep lab that would give me a BIPAP titration.

Theoretically, your Respironics machine itself may be broken -- but I wouldn't buy a new fixed pressure Respironics.

O.

[JeffH]

Jeff, would it help if you took a nap during the day? At least you could get an extra hour or so of sleep toward a total. I am suggesting that you do what I won't do, as I am always afraid the nap will make me less sleepy at night. I am sometimes my own worst enemy.

Another suggestion is to move to another room to sleep, just to make a change. Your bed may be slightly too warm or cold, hard or soft, or the room too light. I have found when traveling that I sometimes actually sleep better, or that I didn't need that extra pillow or some other thing I thought was necessary.

Yet another, if the newer higher pressure doesn't work, split the difference between what the goofy doc suggested and where you were before that. Maybe the extra pressure is causing you to wake up just because it is different.

I hesitate to suggest a glass of milk because of the bathroom problem, but maybe some other form of L-tryptophan in a snack might help. Yogurt? Or maybe something like melatonin?

How about self-hypnosis? People here have reported that telling themselves not to take off the mask helped, so maybe have a talk with yourself as you go to bed to persuade yourself to wake up only once in the night might work. Couldn't hurt.

Most likely you have tried all those things, but maybe not. I hope something works soon for you.

Catnapper - Joanie

I'm doing the online Insomnia course the goofy doc recommended. They said you could nap after a crappy night but hold it to 45 minutes and do it before 3:00pm. Yesterday I did that, but never went to sleep. But 9:00 I couldn't hold my eyes open and at 10:30 I went to bed.

We don't have another bed in the other bedroom. (keeps down company...LOL) We just replaced our 13 yo Select Comfort air bed with a different brand of air bed and it seems to be an improvement on the old bed. It has 3" of memory foam on the top that is replaceable.

I just switched machines with Patty. She's at a pressure of 10 and can sleep thru anything. Back a couple of months ago my machine started screwing up and had to be sent in for repairs and when it came back we just set it up on Patty's side of the bed not thinking anything about it. We have two M-series. One an APAP and the other a CPAP Pro. The Pro was what was sent in and what I just moved back to my side of the bed. I also set the pressure at 14 to see if that helps.

Self-hypnosis is something that kind of happens with this insomnia course I'm doing. It's a five week course and I'm in the middle of week three. There is a relaxation deal that I listen to before bed that helps with getting to sleep. My problem is STAYING asleep.

Thanks for the ideas....keep 'em coming.


JeffH

[JeffH]

IIRC, after you sleep study, the doctor recommended a ResMed auto, set at 13-15 with EPR set by yourself at whatever felt good. That is not a Respironics fixed pressure of 15 with CFlex = 3.

If I didn't have an older Rx, I'd look for someone to give me an Rx so I could buy a ResMed Auto; I'd set it at 13-15 and try various levels of EPR. If that didn't work, I'd look for a sleep lab that would give me a BIPAP titration.

Theoretically, your Respironics machine itself may be broken -- but I wouldn't buy a new fixed pressure Respironics.

O.

Actually it was a Resmed Auto set at 13 and wide open at the top. I don't think those Escape II's have a top end setting, I could be wrong.

We got to thinking that the machine could be the problem so we swapped them this morning. Patty is only at a pressure of 10 so we'll see what happens tonight.

Thanks for the input.


JeffH

[ozij]

...I hope the machine isn't blowing too much pressure in. But at least you have scientific comparison now. Good luck to night.

I wonder if the docotr even knew the you couldn't cap the Escape's top... but that's wonder under the bridge now. If the Resprionics auto doesn't work for you -- try the Autoset. Different algorithms give very different responses for some people.

O.

[pb5927317]

Could be a hormonal problem....to much or to little cortisol.

I am just starting CPAP and the doc gave me Ambien CR to through hopefully just the first couple of weeks.

[JeffH]

...I hope the machine isn't blowing too much pressure in. But at least you have scientific comparison now. Good luck to night.

I wonder if the docotr even knew the you couldn't cap the Escape's top... but that's wonder under the bridge now. If the Resprionics auto doesn't work for you -- try the Autoset. Different algorithms give very different responses for some people.

O.

I'm not a fan of auto's. I seem to do better on a set pressure. When I got the auto back in '06 I tried to make it work for me for 6 months before I gave up and set it at 12 (my original sleep study pressure) and started sleeping good again. That lasted for almost three years until this last Christmas.

I may end up with a Resmed machine. We'll see. My sleep study was done with one and it sure was quite.


JeffH

[Wulfman]

After my sleep study were the so called Doc said I needed a pressure increase from 13 to 15 and he recommended that I set up M-series up with a pressure of 15 and c-flex of three, I'm still waking up 4 to 6 times a night and according to my sleep reports my AHI has also gone up a bit (from around 1.3 to as high as 2..

I'm getting to my wits end. I am SICK of feeling like crap. I don't ever feel rested and am at a point that I dread going to bed at night.

This is so weird in that this started right before christmas and has been on going since then. Before that I'd sleep all night with one or two bathroom breaks and right back to sleep for the most part. Most nights were 7 to 9 hours of sleep with an average of 8 being the norm.

I think my last best hope is that I see my cardiologists on Monday and he's good. I'm going to tell him in detail were I'm at and hopefully he can help me get to the bottom of this. He is at OU Medical ctr. and it being a teaching hospital, they probably like cases like this.

I'm also open to any suggestions you guys have.....


Thanks

JeffH

Got any "gut" feelings? Sometimes our instincts can tell us alot if we listen to them. Stress, foods, sleep hours/patterns, medications, blood sugar levels/control, seasonal effects and many other external and internal conditions can affect our sleep.

I was thinking you already HAD an APAP machine.......
If so, have you tried it in the range your (former) sleep doc suggested?
Do you have Encore Pro to see what events you're having? (I was thinking you did)


Den

[roster]

My problem is STAYING asleep.

That was also my problem. I found a total sleep hygiene program was necessary. But by far the most important part of the program was exercise. For me, I need to have strenuous exercise at least three or four times per week.

My favorites are trail running and speed hiking in the mountains. I always take a day off in between and do free weights.

The best sleep I ever get comes after a good late afternoon upper body workout concentrating on bench presses, curls, triceps extensions, overhead presses, rows and crunches. I don't sleep quite as well the nights after trail running because I have some leg pain from the exertion.

I hope the cardiologist can give you some help.

[JeffH]

My problem is STAYING asleep.

That was also my problem. I found a total sleep hygiene program was necessary. But by far the most important part of the program was exercise. For me, I need to have strenuous exercise at least three or four times per week.

My favorites are trail running and speed hiking in the mountains. I always take a day off in between and do free weights.

The best sleep I ever get comes after a good late afternoon upper body workout concentrating on bench presses, curls, triceps extensions, overhead presses, rows and crunches. I don't sleep quite as well the nights after trail running because I have some leg pain from the exertion.

I hope the cardiologist can give you some help.

I walk 4 miles a day 6 days a week. I do it in the mornings. Never have been a fan of weights, but my have to become one. Thanks.

JeffH

[JeffH]

After my sleep study were the so called Doc said I needed a pressure increase from 13 to 15 and he recommended that I set up M-series up with a pressure of 15 and c-flex of three, I'm still waking up 4 to 6 times a night and according to my sleep reports my AHI has also gone up a bit (from around 1.3 to as high as 2..

I'm getting to my wits end. I am SICK of feeling like crap. I don't ever feel rested and am at a point that I dread going to bed at night.

This is so weird in that this started right before christmas and has been on going since then. Before that I'd sleep all night with one or two bathroom breaks and right back to sleep for the most part. Most nights were 7 to 9 hours of sleep with an average of 8 being the norm.

I think my last best hope is that I see my cardiologists on Monday and he's good. I'm going to tell him in detail were I'm at and hopefully he can help me get to the bottom of this. He is at OU Medical ctr. and it being a teaching hospital, they probably like cases like this.

I'm also open to any suggestions you guys have.....


Thanks

JeffH

Got any "gut" feelings? Sometimes our instincts can tell us alot if we listen to them. Stress, foods, sleep hours/patterns, medications, blood sugar levels/control, seasonal effects and many other external and internal conditions can affect our sleep.

I was thinking you already HAD an APAP machine.......
If so, have you tried it in the range your (former) sleep doc suggested?
Do you have Encore Pro to see what events you're having? (I was thinking you did)


Den

No gut feeling...seem to much in the mental fog to have any feelings other than frustration, anger, and an occasional case of the poor me's (self-pity).

I have an APAP and have been using it in cpap mode. Today I switched it with Patty. She's been using my cpap machine. I'm at a higher pressure so if I get to sleeping / feeling better, and she starts feeling bad I know there is something wrong with the APAP.

I have Encore Pro and took 30 days worth of reports to the Sleep Doc I saw and he didn't even look at them...said they were a waste of printer ink. At a pressure of 13 apneas didn't seem to be waking me up. At a pressure of 15 they seem to be waking me up.

I've been really controlling my blood sugar for the first time since I was diagnosed with diabetes. They stay between 90 and 110 for the most part.

Like I said in other post, been getting up to pee WAY too much but seeing a Doc for that. Last nite I woke up 6 times.


Thanks for the input, Den.


JeffH

[roster]

I walk 4 miles a day 6 days a week.

That is excellent, IMO.

I do it in the mornings.

If your schedule and the weather allows, you might want to try doing this in the late afternoon shortly before dinner.

Never have been a fan of weights, but my have to become one.

Don't let the weightlifting fanatics get you to doing too much. I did for years and then switched to the Mayo Clinic recommendations and it works well:

■Learn proper technique. For best results, proper technique is essential. If you're not sure whether you're doing a particular exercise correctly, ask a personal trainer or other fitness specialist for help.

■Do a single set of repetitions. Theories on the best way to approach weight training abound, including countless repetitions and hours at the gym. But research shows that a single set of 12 repetitions with the proper weight can build muscle just as efficiently as can three sets of the same exercise. So what's the proper weight? One that's heavy enough to tire your muscles after about 12 to 15 repetitions. You should be just barely able to finish the last repetition.

■Start slowly. If you're a beginner, you may find that you're able to lift only a few pounds. That's OK. Once your muscles, tendons and ligaments get used to weight training exercises, you may be surprised at how quickly you progress. Once you can easily do 12 repetitions with a particular weight, gradually increase the weight.

■Take time to rest. To give your muscles time to recover, rest one full day between exercising each specific muscle group. You might choose to work the major muscle groups at a single session two or three times a week — or plan daily sessions for specific muscle groups. For example, on Monday work your arms and shoulders, on Tuesday work your legs, and so on.

Full article at http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/weight ... ng/HQ01627

Do learn from the weighlifting fanatics about technique. Good lifting technique gives you a better workout and prevents injuries.

[JeffH]

I walk 4 miles a day 6 days a week.

That is excellent, IMO.

I do it in the mornings.

If your schedule and the weather allows, you might want to try doing this in the late afternoon shortly before dinner.

Never have been a fan of weights, but my have to become one.

Don't let the weightlifting fanatics get you to doing too much. I did for years and then switched to the Mayo Clinic recommendations and it works well:

■Learn proper technique. For best results, proper technique is essential. If you're not sure whether you're doing a particular exercise correctly, ask a personal trainer or other fitness specialist for help.

■Do a single set of repetitions. Theories on the best way to approach weight training abound, including countless repetitions and hours at the gym. But research shows that a single set of 12 repetitions with the proper weight can build muscle just as efficiently as can three sets of the same exercise. So what's the proper weight? One that's heavy enough to tire your muscles after about 12 to 15 repetitions. You should be just barely able to finish the last repetition.

■Start slowly. If you're a beginner, you may find that you're able to lift only a few pounds. That's OK. Once your muscles, tendons and ligaments get used to weight training exercises, you may be surprised at how quickly you progress. Once you can easily do 12 repetitions with a particular weight, gradually increase the weight.

■Take time to rest. To give your muscles time to recover, rest one full day between exercising each specific muscle group. You might choose to work the major muscle groups at a single session two or three times a week — or plan daily sessions for specific muscle groups. For example, on Monday work your arms and shoulders, on Tuesday work your legs, and so on.

Full article at http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/weight ... ng/HQ01627

Do learn from the weighlifting fanatics about technique. Good lifting technique gives you a better workout and prevents injuries.

Thanks, I'll look into this.

Of course this ice storm followed by 4 inches of snow the next day has had me getting no exercise for the last few days.

JeffH

[Muse-Inc]

...been really controlling my blood sugar for the first time since I was diagnosed with diabetes. They stay between 90 and 110 for the most part...

Are you eating a bedtime snack? I recommended a protein+fat (0 or at most 4 grams carb) snack to both my diabetic friends, they tried it and it helped them start sleeping thru the night and reduced their dawn effect numbers. As with everything YRMV

Jeff, seems to me, with your list of probs that it's like you're a new hosehead...something's changed and nothing's working the way it did. I'm kinda thinking Ozij's suggestion to try the ResMed at that range might be a good idea...can you get your hands on one? And, not the new Escape Auto The algorithm between Respironics and ResMed is quite different and you just might benefit from that difference now that you're in this things are different phase.