BiPAP ASV - Backup Power Question

[Kiralynx]

I'm already there, Kira. I'm now continuing the search for another ASV as a backup. Might take me a year or more to find another great deal, but the thought of having to use my "plain old APAP" in an emergency is not appealing anymore. (I'm glad I have something for those times, but it sure will feel like going backwards in my therapy if I have to use it.)

Well, at least some therapy is better than NO therapy! I've done without my machine for exactly 2 nights -- back in April, when I had the respiratory infection and couldn't use my nasal pillows. (Now have a full face back-up for such times.) I've had other times when I was on short ration, like sitting up all night with my Mom at the hospital, then tried sleeping during the day (with all Mom's friends calling to see how she was). But not without it.

Maybe, if your doc sees your improved therapy on ASV, s/he will consent to write you a prescription for one, and then you can check CPAPAuction -- that's where I got my back-up / traveling machine.

I went looking, but I lost my internet connection before I found anything. Here's another option for you to consider. It looks to be the same (or very similar) battery that I have, at a lower cost than I paid ($450 at the time): http://www.bestcpapprice.com/Owell-Indu ... 0-516.html

Yes, that may be one of the others which was recommended at some point. It has a carrying case, which could be useful, unlike the other one which I referenced.

<g> When does your inverter arrive?

[dsm]

Here's what it says on the power supply for the ASV:
Input 100-240V~ 50-60Hz 1.2A
Output 26.0V 2.3A

The inverter I purchased is 200W. In part, its description says:
DC Input Voltage: 12V (10-15V)
Output Wave Form: Modified Sinewave
Output Power: 200W
Surge Power Capacity: 600W
Efficiency: Over 90%
No Load Current: <0.3A


Found this tech info - seems the HC150 at 115 volts only requires 92 watts max !!!
http://www.fphcare.com/userfiles/file/O ... Manual.pdf

Just need the info from the bipap AutoSV

The power consumption on the BiPAP ASV is confusing at first appearance. But, let's consider the constant part: maximum out power. 26 volts X 2.3 amps = 59.8 W. If we assume the power supply is 80 percent efficient, we get 75 watts off the line max. On the heated humidifier, they give a load spec (both voltage X current and directly stated) of 92 W. Added together, that gives a total load of 167 watts. Since it is unlikely you are using your BiPAP ASV at full pressure output, your power consumption is probably quite a bit less than 60 W. On the humidifier, they are recommending a 150W inverter, probably to give a margin of extra capacity for reliability. This is where they are getting the 150W rating. This device is essentially a low temperature resistance heater, and resistance heaters like this tend to be stable, well-behaved loads. They do not have high inrush currents like so many other electrical items. I would conclude that your 200W inverter is probably adequate for the job (and will likely display optimal efficiency at this power level). But if I purchased one again, I would consider 250W or so.

timbalionguy
Nicely summed up & well put

Bottom line then is that a 200W inverter should be ok - 250W inverter adds a little insurance.

Thanks
DSM

[BleepingBeauty]

Maybe, if your doc sees your improved therapy on ASV, s/he will consent to write you a prescription for one, and then you can check CPAPAuction -- that's where I got my back-up / traveling machine.

That would be nice, but I think it's unlikely. She wasn't interested in seeing the data from my APAP, so I don't expect she'll be interested in the ASV data, either. She might (very pleasantly) surprise me in that regard, though.

On the other hand, I may very well find myself without a sleep doctor at all (meaning she'll be annoyed that I didn't listen to her, and then decide she doesn't want to treat me anymore). As a backup plan (pun intended ), I'll ask my PCP if he'll write such a script for me. It'd be nice to have more purchasing options than the hit-and-miss nature of CL...

When does your inverter arrive?

I don't know yet. It's already been shipped, but the FedEx Ground tracking number isn't giving me any info yet. It should take 3-4 days, so I'm hoping I'll have it by Saturday.

I've been lucky with the storms thus far (got through last night with no electricity interruptions), but my APAP is set up right next to the ASV, should I need to employ it with the battery before the inverter arrives.

The power consumption on the BiPAP ASV is confusing at first appearance. But, let's consider the constant part: maximum out power. 26 volts X 2.3 amps = 59.8 W. If we assume the power supply is 80 percent efficient, we get 75 watts off the line max. On the heated humidifier, they give a load spec (both voltage X current and directly stated) of 92 W. Added together, that gives a total load of 167 watts. Since it is unlikely you are using your BiPAP ASV at full pressure output, your power consumption is probably quite a bit less than 60 W. On the humidifier, they are recommending a 150W inverter, probably to give a margin of extra capacity for reliability. This is where they are getting the 150W rating. This device is essentially a low temperature resistance heater, and resistance heaters like this tend to be stable, well-behaved loads. They do not have high inrush currents like so many other electrical items. I would conclude that your 200W inverter is probably adequate for the job (and will likely display optimal efficiency at this power level). But if I purchased one again, I would consider 250W or so.

timbaliongu
Nicely summed up & well put

Bottom line then is that a 200W inverter should be ok - 250W inverter adds a little insurance.

Thanks
DSM

Thanks to both of you for your help.

[timbalionguy]

I'd sure like to try an ASV myself. With the weird, unpredictable results I have had on xPAP so far, it would be interesting to see what an advanced machine will do. Maybe I need to start watching Craigslist.

Personally, what I would do for portable power for this machine is a 12 volt laptop power supply with a 24 volt output. These are available as aftermarket replacements for older laptops. There are also higher performance DC-DC converters available from companies like Astrodyne that would fit the bill as well. The other approach would be to use a 24 volt battery (12 volt X 2), if I can ascertain that the machine can use unregulated power (which I suspect it can, but have no official word).

[Kiralynx]

I'd sure like to try an ASV myself. With the weird, unpredictable results I have had on xPAP so far, it would be interesting to see what an advanced machine will do. Maybe I need to start watching Craigslist.

Personally, what I would do for portable power for this machine is a 12 volt laptop power supply with a 24 volt output. These are available as aftermarket replacements for older laptops. There are also higher performance DC-DC converters available from companies like Astrodyne that would fit the bill as well. The other approach would be to use a 24 volt battery (12 volt X 2), if I can ascertain that the machine can use unregulated power (which I suspect it can, but have no official word).

Timbalion,

All I can say is that I am profoundly and sincerely grateful that the RT at my DME decided that the centrals on my titration warranted an ASV and that my doctor and my insurance agreed with her. (Mind you, it's about the only thing I've agreed with Apria on, but....)

The transitions from EPAP to IPAP are very smooth for me. With the constant support of the EPAP, I almost don't notice when the IPAP changes to handle my hypopneas. My AHI is typically <2.

Definitely keep an eye out on Craigslist -- or see if you can persuade your doctor to write you a prescription for one.

[BleepingBeauty]

Well, my luck (during the storms this week) ran out. Lost power early last night, so I used my battery with my APAP @ 12, no heated humidity, no supplemental O2. Woke up mouth-breathing, my tongue feeling like the Sahara (or should that be the Sonoran? ). I'm glad I was able to sleep at all, but it wasn't my best night.

Just checked the FedEx tracking for my inverter, and it's not scheduled to arrive until the 26th. (When I ordered it on the 19th, I was told it would take 3-4 days for delivery.) Bummer, and fingers crossed that it gets here before I lose power at night again...

[tootiredtocare]

.

[Kiralynx]

Just checked the FedEx tracking for my inverter, and it's not scheduled to arrive until the 26th. (When I ordered it on the 19th, I was told it would take 3-4 days for delivery.) Bummer, and fingers crossed that it gets here before I lose power at night again...

Well, it's now the 28th, BB. Have you gotten it? Have you tested it?

That is the pits about having your power go out....

[JohnBFisher]

tootiredtocare, you had noted you needed to know how to setup a battery backup. I'll PM you with this information, but I think I can show you how to find the info you need.

On the ResMed site, there is a document that describes the battery sizing and hookup you might need (for your VPAP S [ or perhaps S8] unit and a Humidaire 4i unit, if I remember correctly):

http://www.resmed.com/us/assets/documen ... lo_eng.pdf

Go to the top of page 13 and you will see a table that shows the battery power required. If you want to use the humidifier, you would need the more expensive "pure sine wave" inverter (converts form 12V DC battery to 110V AC outlet) with a 300 W sustained rating (with a peak of 500 W). Of if you turn off your humidifier (but allow the air to flow over the water ... making it a "passover" humidifier), then you can use a less expensive modified sine wave inverter rated at 150W sustained output and a peak of 200 or 300W. It's all in the manual.

You can then get a deep cycle battery to provide the power you need to sleep. Hope that helps.

[FeistyWifey]

SWS said

Neither your BiPAP autoSV nor your HC150 require a pure sine wave inverter. So the above modified sine wave inverter will work just fine powering both with the above two-step AC configuration. Total run time with those introduced inverter inefficiencies remains to be seen...

. SWS, my husband Silver has an Adapt SV and ResMed said when I phoned them that he has to use a pure sine wave inverter. (I told them I'd read on here that sometimes they don't work.) Do you or DMS know what we need to do to back up the Adapt SV? Thanks so much BB for posting your question and thank you to all who answered. My Clear ISP (formerly Clearwire) is in "transition" (totally unreliable now) so please bear with me if I don't respond right away.

[JohnBFisher]

... SWS, my husband Silver has an Adapt SV and ResMed said when I phoned them that he has to use a pure sine wave inverter. ...

Well, the battery guide from ResMed says a modified sine wave inverter will work:

http://www.resmed.com/us/assets/documen ... lo_eng.pdf

See the top of page 7. Just be certain the heated humidifier is turned OFF. Then it can act as a passover humidifier (better than nothing), but won't need quite as expensive an inverter.

Hope that helps.

[BleepingBeauty]

Just checked the FedEx tracking for my inverter, and it's not scheduled to arrive until the 26th. (When I ordered it on the 19th, I was told it would take 3-4 days for delivery.) Bummer, and fingers crossed that it gets here before I lose power at night again...

Well, it's now the 28th, BB. Have you gotten it? Have you tested it?

That is the pits about having your power go out....

Hi, Kira. Yep, the inverter has arrived, but I've been reluctant to test it until the weather is clear (so I don't run down the battery by experimenting, lose electricity, and then be really up the creek with no backup). But the forecast looks good now (I went outside and blew all the nasty stuff over to you guys, back east ), and I'll start my experimenting tonight.

First up will be the use of just the machine, so I'll keep the HC150 plugged into the wall. I expect to get about half the time from the battery powering the ASV (or about 13-14 hours) as opposed to the 27 hours or so I got with the M Series APAP.

Then I'll recharge the battery and use the ASV with the integrated humidifier to see how much time I get from the battery when it's powering both devices.

Rest assured, I'll post my results.

P.S. Lost more shingles in that nasty storm last week (which qualified as hurricane No. 2 this winter). Had just gotten the roof repaired from the last one in December, so this will be the handyman's repeat performance. (Note to Mother Nature: Okay, already. We hear ya. Now, relax!)

[FeistyWifey]

Well, the battery guide from ResMed says a modified sine wave inverter will work:

http://www.resmed.com/us/assets/documen ... lo_eng.pdf

See the top of page 7. Just be certain the heated humidifier is turned OFF. Then it can act as a passover humidifier (better than nothing), but won't need quite as expensive an inverter.

Hope that helps.

Thank you John. We'd love to save any money. Doing things a bit at a time as able. I did see wonder if ResMed is including the Adapt SV on the top of that page. They say a little further down, "Note: ResMed no longer distributes converters for the AutoSet CS2 or VPAP Adapt SV" (I know, not relevant here, but they keep excluding the Adapt SV, and it was over my head and I didn't know how to decipher that) and they told me on the phone they "do NOT recommend ANY battery backup for the Adapt SV, but you could do it..." I took that to mean they were covering themselves for some reason. Under the Minimum Requirements section, they list this: Pure sine wave -
300 watt continuous
• AutoSet CS™ 2/
VPAP™ Adapt SV
• C-Series Tango™ • S7 series." What you recommend, however, is exactly what a camper or RVer recommended using. He said what ResMed recommended (pure sine wave) did not work because the power fluctuates. Said to install a 120 inverter directly into the battery. (ResMed's answer to that when I put it to them was, "The power only fluctuated because he didn't use pure sine wave!") I thought, Well so now what? Good to hear from a Adapt SV user, John.

[Kiralynx]

Hi, Kira. Yep, the inverter has arrived, <snip> Rest assured, I'll post my results.

Yeah, I can see why you wouldn't want to test it during nasty weather.

Will you also test it with the integrated humidifier? That might use less power than the separate humidifier, and might give you a longer time run than with the external humidifier.

Let's not talk about hurricanes, shall we?

[BleepingBeauty]

Hi, Kira. Yep, the inverter has arrived, <snip> Rest assured, I'll post my results.

Yeah, I can see why you wouldn't want to test it during nasty weather.

Will you also test it with the integrated humidifier? That might use less power than the separate humidifier, and might give you a longer time run than with the external humidifier.

Let's not talk about hurricanes, shall we?

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough. Yes, that'll be my second experiment.

First will be the battery & inverter powering just the ASV, itself (during which I'll continue to use the HC150, but it'll be plugged in and won't be drawing on the battery's power).

Then I'll recharge the battery and use it with the inverter to power both the machine and the integrated humidifier, to see how much more juice the humidifier draws (and how much less time I'll get out of the battery, as a result).

I'll let you know how it goes.