Hypopneas while awake.

Cavallo · Post by **Cavallo** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:23 am

OK, I initially thought it was strange, but maybe just an anomaly, so I decided to observe it for awhile. At this point I can honestly say that my machine is recording hypopneas while I'm still awake. Huh? Do I just not fit its definition of normal?

Anyway, this has me on the verge of discounting its HI numbers entirely, and looking only at AI.

KatieW · Post by **KatieW** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:41 am

Yes, I have experienced being awake and having the software show hypopneas. Resmed defines a hypopnea as a 50 to 75% drop in ventilation. So, I think my "normal" breathing is...well, normal.

It has been discussed that for Resmed, you can cut the hypopneas in half, in comparison to other brand machines, that use a different definition. Not right or wrong, just different.

BlackSpinner · Post by **BlackSpinner** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:53 am

Yes people hold their breath when ever they "emote" or try to concentrate.

When I was doing massage we were told to try to breath with the client - and I can tell you some people just ain't got no rhythm.

DreamOn · Post by **DreamOn** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:06 am

My machine also scores hypopneas when I'm awake. I sometimes catch myself holding my breath when I'm turning or stretching in bed, so I figure that must be it. It's annoying that it skews my "numbers"! Could also be that we sometimes hold our head at an angle that does partly obstruct the airway, even while awake?

Is this a problem only with the ResMed machines, or do others also have "awake hypopneas" show on their software reports?

~ DreamOn

JohnBFisher · Post by **JohnBFisher** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:15 am

BlackSpinner wrote:... I can tell you some people just ain't got no rhythm. ...

Funny, people seem to say that to my all the time. But it's not just when I breathe. I seem to hear that phrase when I try to dance or when I try to sing or when I try to play an instrument ...

JohnBFisher · Post by **JohnBFisher** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:21 am

Cavallo wrote:OK, I initially thought it was strange, but maybe just an anomaly, so I decided to observe it for awhile. At this point I can honestly say that my machine is recording hypopneas while I'm still awake. Huh? Do I just not fit its definition of normal?

Anyway, this has me on the verge of discounting its HI numbers entirely, and looking only at AI.

As folks noted, ResMed is very aggressive on scoring both Apneas and Hypopneas. However, having said that, ALL of us occassionally have both hypopneas and central apneas. That is perfectly normal. So, if you are in bed reading and some hypopneas show up. And as another poster noted some people tend to both breathe more shallowly and less when they concentrate. I know I do that. I would not worry about those hypopneas skewing the numbers. First ResMed has a period where it does not count the apneas or hypopneas, since it assumes you are falling asleep. Even after that point (unless you leave the mask on all day), a few hypopneas will be lost in the sea of data from the rest of the night. Additionally, if you use software to monitor your therapy you will find that you can visually discount any spikes that might result from those events while you were awake.

Hope that helps.

Cavallo · Post by **Cavallo** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:15 pm

I get that it shouldn't be recording during settling. I get that I can easily discount ones from when I know I was awake. I'm just wondering if I should even pay attention to hypopneas at all if it thinks my breathing is inadequate even when I'm very much awake when the machine isn't settling. My HI has been quite high since the beginning, and remains so (10-20 range, sometimes higher.) I'm just wondering if I should focus on AI, and let HI take care of itself.

JohnBFisher · Post by **JohnBFisher** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:06 pm

Cavallo wrote:... I'm just wondering if I should focus on AI, and let HI take care of itself. ...

Gets back to how you feel. If you feel okay then I would let it ride. If you feel as if you should be sleeping better, I would start to ask your sleep specialist why your hypopnea index remains high. There might be more that can be done.

Gerryk · Post by **Gerryk** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:26 pm

JohnBFisher wrote:
BlackSpinner wrote:... I can tell you some people just ain't got no rhythm. ...
Funny, people seem to say that to my all the time. But it's not just when I breathe. I seem to hear that phrase when I try to dance or when I try to sing or when I try to play an instrument ...

John my wife loves to go dancing and I hate it but I used to go for her. At our friends wedding reception, I went to get her a drink and she was laughing when I came back. When I asked what was so funny she said you are when you dance. She said I look like I am having a seizure when I dance.

Well, I don't look that way anymore becuase I won't dance again.

As far as restrictions or not breathing while you are awake. I used to do that when I was relaxing and falling asleep. My wife said I would lay there with a very relaxed look on my face and not breath. She would nudge me and I would say I know, I was just thinking I should take a breath.

Gerry

JohnBFisher · Post by **JohnBFisher** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:41 pm

Gerryk wrote:... John my wife loves to go dancing and I hate it but I used to go for her. At our friends wedding reception, I went to get her a drink and she was laughing when I came back. When I asked what was so funny she said you are when you dance. She said I look like I am having a seizure when I dance.

Well, I don't look that way anymore becuase I won't dance again. ...

Yeouch! No wonder!

I've always been rather uncoordinated. I probably have always had some problems with my cerebellum, which just gets worse as I get older. So, I've mostly learned to ignore how people act and react.

Though sometimes people chide me for being drunk. I then explain that I have a medical problem, show them my Medic Alert bracelet and then ask politely what medical condition explains their rudeness! Maybe they will think before they presume criticize another person.

Gerryk wrote:... As far as restrictions or not breathing while you are awake. I used to do that when I was relaxing and falling asleep. My wife said I would lay there with a very relaxed look on my face and not breath. She would nudge me and I would say I know, I was just thinking I should take a breath. ...

As you know, we all do that as we fall sleep. Sleep onset central apneas is really, really normal. What is not normal is when it is so frequent that it causes constant problems with falling asleep. So, if you or anyone reading this reply does this, but fall asleep normally without further central apneas, it is not a problem. But if the apnea lasts long enough that it causes you to awaken as you fall asleep or the central apneas continue during sleep and are extensive enough, it should be addressed.

Gerry, I know you understand this. I just highlight this for other readers.

Gerryk · Post by **Gerryk** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:00 pm

John you gave me a bad idea. I may just go out and buy several medic alert bracelets. One for each bad habbit I have. Being rude, being nosey, cursing, of course I will have to come up with some words that would sound like a medical term for all of them.

Gerry

JohnBFisher · Post by **JohnBFisher** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:12 pm

Gerryk wrote:John you gave me a bad idea. I may just go out and buy several medic alert bracelets. One for each bad habbit I have. Being rude, being nosey, cursing, of course I will have to come up with some words that would sound like a medical term for all of them.

Gerry

Snork! I can see it now:

GFS (Geriatric Flatulence Syndrome) aka. (OFS) Old Fart Syndrome

SleepingUgly · Post by **SleepingUgly** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:07 pm

I have all kinds of respiratory events while I am awake, according to my machine. My doctor said the machines aren't good at detecting respiratory events while awake so it's not indicative of anything. Interestingly, my AHI increased when I got a full face mask. No idea why, and my AHI is now often above 5, which I thought was also very interesting considering I don't have an apnea diagnosis. My doctor dismissed it saying you can't diagnose sleep disordered breathing from a CPAP/Auto-Pap. It's just not the same as a sleep study when it reports AHI.

Cavallo wrote:OK, I initially thought it was strange, but maybe just an anomaly, so I decided to observe it for awhile. At this point I can honestly say that my machine is recording hypopneas while I'm still awake. Huh? Do I just not fit its definition of normal?

Anyway, this has me on the verge of discounting its HI numbers entirely, and looking only at AI.

secret agent girl · Post by **secret agent girl** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:54 pm

SleepingUgly · Post by **SleepingUgly** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:38 pm

Secret Agent Girl, I am using CPAP as an empiric trial to see if I benefit from it. I actually have a post ready with my story, but I can't figure out how to attach a file or image to my post, and that is holding up my posting of it.

secret agent girl wrote:SleepingUgly, I'm curious why you are using cpap if you don't have an apnea diagnosis.

Cavallo, I suppose with each of us having an ever-so-slightly different breathing pattern, it could be overestimating your hypopneas. I like the suggestion of giving more weight to how you feel and function. My sleep study was almost 80--all hypopneas. And I've got the same machine as you; for two weeks my HI has been always under 3 (except 1st night)...but I feel worse than before starting treatment. For me, it may just be the adjustment period. I don't know how long you've been using xpap.

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