BiPap Pro Auto vs Vantage Epr?

jondough · Post by **jondough** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:10 pm

I have been reading [regularly but only on weekends] with interest about these two new developments.

From some early discussions, and reading that EPR was 1,2or 3cm, I took my Pro2 and changed it from its usual 14/11 mode without BiFlex and put it at 14/13.5 with BiFlex at 3 [max]and visually watched the LCD and found that the BiFlex rarely got near reducing more than 2 and very quickly returned to settings. It was relative to the breaths.

I know that this is not scientific, but it coincides with the information from the knowledgeable on CPT [who I appreciate very much]
From all the reading and my own test, it would seem to me that the Vantage with EPR set at 3 would give me a similar functionallity as my Bipap set at a differential of 3 plus add the auto features and the software reporting of those machines.

Also, it seems from reading that it would function similarly to the BiPap auto as long as the differential was not greater than 3cm at a significantly reduced cost to the user.

I have personally not found the Flex feature to be an improvement for my treatment as I seem to need the "kick" of the pressure change at times.

ps I own my Pro2 but need something lighter and with better battery operation so I am seriously considering what my next move will be and how soon. I was disappointed that the Encore software only reaffirmed my known usage, and dream of a machine intelligent reporting to satisfy the engineer in me. It seems that the Vantage 8 EPR with Humid. at $1K with software and reader is a lot better than the BiPap Auto at over $2K without extras.

Thanks for listening and correct me if I am on the wrong track.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:32 pm

Hi jondough,

Interesting tests.

I can't comment on how the treatment would would be for you using cpap with EPR at 3 compared to bipap with biflex at 3; but this caught my eye, when you wrote:

"it would seem to me that the Vantage with EPR set at 3....plus add the auto features" ....

I wasn't quite sure if you expect the ResMed S8 Vantage to be able to use EPR while operating in "auto" mode. Or if you were looking at it simply to be able to have EPR in a straight cpap, yet also have a machine that could be operated as an autopap if you switched modes.

ResMed's new Vantage autopap cannot use EPR while running in "Auto" mode. The Vantage can use its EPR only while running in straight cpap mode.

If what you have in mind is a machine that uses EPR's precise reduction in cm's for exhalation relief at the same time it is working as an autopap, the Vantage can't do that.

As far as I know, the Respironics REMstar Auto with C-flex is still the only "regular" autopap that can give any kind of exhalation relief (the relative, imprecise drop of C-Flex) while it is operating in autopap mode.

jondough · Post by **jondough** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:35 pm

RG
Thanks for the clarification.
Shucks! Looks like I will have to watch and wait some more....

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:39 pm

I know how you feel. I was all excited too about the first announcements of ResMed's S8 machines "with EPR."

Was disappointed to hear that EPR wasn't available in the Vantage's auto mode.

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:29 pm

Jeeze RG , this exchange comes across like a paid advert for Respironics or ResMeds competitors

But on this theme of EPR whilst in AUTO, I am puzzled as to why this is an issue allowing that people go to auto to get the advantage of running at lower pressures & once asleep few people seem to be aware of the need for EPR.

If someone is asleep & about to begin SA or OSA episodes, I would imagine these are the very times that decreasing EPR & CFLEX would be a desirable requirement. Surely what is not wanted is the machine having to try to exert itself beyond normal operation, to keep the airway open right at the point the sleeper is having SA/OSA problems.

Then there are the arguments for what additional problems EPR & CFLEX add to mask management. One would imagine that decreased exhalation pressure would minimise mask leaks but my experience thus far keeps implying the opposite - am still trying to understand what triggers mask leaks apart from the mask being distorted or the jaw moving to far back when one has a f/f mask.

Cheers

DSM

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:29 pm

EPR without the auto is a big disapointment. I'd wait for the bi-auto-pap from REMstar.

jondough · Post by **jondough** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:53 pm

in thinking about this some more, if I had the Vantage EPR, i could use it in biflex mode as I do now, but with the added advantage that I could put into Auto mode as considered, to self [with machine] check what was/had been going on and make mods to the EPR mode accordingly and have a smaller, lighter [for my bad back traveling] machine. Stopgap, maybe, also maybe added to my BiPap Pro2 BF. Transition and education if I can afford it.
Have I got the above concept right?

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:21 pm

Have I got the above concept right?

Yes, you do. If you can stand exhaling against pressure when you do spot check yourself occasionally with auto mode, yes.

However, if breathing out against pressure gives you a big problem, then I don't know exactly how useful the occasional auto session would be.

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:24 pm

[quote="wading thru the muck!"]EPR without the auto is a big disapointment. I'd wait for the bi-auto-pap from REMstar.