Day 1

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Scarlet834
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Re: Day 1

Post by Scarlet834 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:29 pm

desert rider wrote:
desert rider wrote:
Pugsy wrote:This particular machine is older model. M Series machines are newer.
I'd better re-check my facts. I'll take a look.
Hi PAPers - I'm back. And I think I have my story straight this time.

Anyway, thanks again for the support everyone. I'll take Dori's advice and work to upgrade my device. I guess I need to be certain of my needs before I go to all that trouble though. So the M Series Pro is the one I need? Then I'd need the EncoreViewer 1.0 Software, USB Smart Card Reader too?

It's a lot to digest. Thanks again!
There is a comparison chart here: https://www.cpap.com/cpap-compare-chart/all-CPAP

If the Plus series does not give you the same data as the Pro series, then yes, it will be worth your while to upgrade. I have the M Series Pro myself, but you'll find lots of discussion on the boards of what machines are the best. (Though I suspect an upgrade to the same brand might be easier to maneuver with your medical providers.) I encourage you to order the card reader and software as soon as possible, as it will enable you to confirm what you think is happening, or to troubleshoot if you have issues.

You have a great positive attitude (all the smilies) and it's nice you have you aboard. Keep us posted!

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plr66
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Re: Day 1

Post by plr66 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:47 pm

Just to reiterate, that to get a machine with the most options for adjusting your treatment, you should consider advising (not "asking") your MD that you want an M Series Auto CPAP with A-flex. (yes, there are other choices of manufacturers which you can research on cpap.com). The DME makes the most money by offering you the bottom of the line model (with no data capability besides whether you used the machine or not). Go for the most options and full data capability. Yes you will need to purchase the software and reader. Do it early. It really is the only way to maximize your therapy and troubleshoot issues, as has already been said here. All the best to you as you travel through this road to recovery!! You'll have tons of help here any time you ask for it.

Edited because I always seem to write the model name just a little "off"! Geesh.
DeVilbiss IntelliPap Std Plus with Smartflex; Transcend miniCPAP & Everest2 w/humidifier & batt for travel. UltraMirage FFM; PadACheeks; PaPillow. Using straight CPAP at 13.0/passover humidifier. AHI consistently < 1.5. Began CPAP 9/4/08.

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desert rider
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Re: Day 1

Post by desert rider » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:01 pm

carbonman wrote:I'm just curious, what is it that you ride in the desert?
My family rides dirt bikes in the Mojave Desert. We have motorcycles for my wife and I and all three of our kids (11-17 yrs old). I ride a Yamaha WF450.

Our family has a "Toy Hauler" trailer, which is a regular travel-trailer RV, except that the beds in the rear of the trailer fold up and attach to the wall and the carpet rolls up so we can roll our bikes up the rear ramp and haul the bikes inside the trailer. We camp on public land that's designated for riding on marked trails or open areas. We're pretty lucky to have these areas so close to home, but we know we have to enjoy it while we can. 99% of the families and groups that camp and ride in these areas are extremely responsible. But that 1% is costing us dearly in the PR battle.

We camp in groups ranging from 2-3 families clear up to approx. 300 people. I was the organizer of our Poker Run the year we had 300 people. It was a big enough group that we needed a permit from the BLM. Fun stuff, but too much work to organize that large of an event.

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Mask: Mirage Quattro™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Pressure = 12 • C-Flex = 3 • Day 1 = 11/06/2009
"Being an optimist has its ups."

DreamOn
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Re: Day 1

Post by DreamOn » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:14 pm

desert rider,

I'm SO glad you're sticking around!
desert rider wrote:I usually lurk for awhile before contributing, because it seems like it's more polite than storming into the center of the room and saying, "LOOK AT ME. STOP TALKING EVERYONE, BECAUSE I HAVE A QUESTION."
I felt like that when I first came here (not that many weeks ago!), but I'm getting to feel right at home now.

I'm going to leave the discussion regarding specific machines to the experts here. I just want to say that you probably should not purchase the software and card reader until you have secured a machine capable of reporting the data you will need to monitor your therapy. The software and reader would be useless with the machine you have right now, as it does not record any of the data you will need in order to monitor your progress and make adjustments.

To start, you should learn about the two types of machines: regular "CPAP" and "APAP" (auto-adjusting or auto-titrating CPAPS). Most of the people here will recommend that you get an APAP machine that has full data capability. At the very least, you will want a regular CPAP with full data capability. Once you understand the different types of machines, then it'll be easier to compare the various models and what kind of data each can give you. You will learn a lot as you start to search around this forum and elsewhere on the internet. That's how I got started.

~ DreamOn

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desert rider
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Re: Day 1

Post by desert rider » Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:42 pm

More great advice. Thanks DreamOn.

_________________
Mask: Mirage Quattro™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Pressure = 12 • C-Flex = 3 • Day 1 = 11/06/2009
"Being an optimist has its ups."

DreamOn
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Re: Day 1

Post by DreamOn » Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:09 pm

desert rider wrote:More great advice. Thanks DreamOn.
I was in your shoes not long ago, and I remember how much information there was to absorb. I was having a difficult time concentrating on anything for more than five minutes, and I felt like I was thinking in circles! This is an excellent link that should explain all about APAP machines: wiki/index.php/AutoPAP. Basically, an APAP provides a flexible pressure based on a set pressure range, while a regular CPAP provides one continuous (set) pressure. If you read the article, you will understand more about the benefits of an APAP.

Do you know what your machine pressure is set at? I'm sure many will disagree with me (and that's okay), but for my situation I think a regular CPAP is just fine. My set pressure is very low, at only 6. The lowest setting on the machine is 4, so I can't go much lower than I am. I figure that if my AHI (apnea+hypopnea index) is too high then I can try a higher pressure if I feel that's needed. If my titrated pressure would have been higher, then I definitely would've pushed for an APAP, because my pressure may have varied a lot more, depending on sleep position, etc. The thinking is that you don't always need the higher pressure, so why be at that higher level all night long, when it's only needed part of the night. The APAP will adjust the pressure as needed, within the range that's set on the machine. Also, an APAP can be run in set-pressure CPAP mode, which makes it a more flexible machine. But be sure to read that wiki linked above because it explains it much better than I can!

As far as machines go, the brand may be dictated by what your DME has available. If they work with a particular manufacturer they can always order one for you if they don't keep it in stock. In my case, which is VERY typical, my DME didn't stock the ResMed Elite II that I wanted (because it has full data capability). They only stock the ResMed Escape, which is a basic model similar to the one you have now, so they had to order the Elite II. You see, the insurance billing code is the same for both CPAPs and APAPs, whether they're fully data capable or not. So the DME makes more profit if they sell you the most basic machine. As you have probably noticed, that's a touchy subject around here.

Once you decide whether you want to push for a CPAP or an APAP, then it'll be easier to compare models between the different manufacturers. Among the fully data-capable machines, there seem to be few differences in what kind of data they give you. When I was trying to decide which regular CPAP to purchase, I made up this decision chart. To start, you can get the info off the machine's LCD screen and then get the software if you want to. The software will show a bit more information, with nifty graphs.

Image

As I understand it, the machine you have now (M Series Plus C-Flex CPAP) ONLY shows the Hours of Use. No other data.

I'm not positive, but I think that the LCDs on the equivalent APAPs show the same information as in the chart above for the regular CPAPs. Perhaps someone more familiar with those machines can confirm that. The APAPs by the major manufacturers (all fully data capable) are:

Respironics M Series Auto with A-Flex
ResMed S8 AutoSet II
Covidien SandMan Auto
DeVilbiss IntelliPAP AutoAdjust

The machine you have right now will give you good therapy. But it has a set pressure and won't provide you with any details to keep track of it, as you want to do.

Anyway, this should be enough to get you started and keep you busy for a while! Take it one step at a time. I hope you have a good 2nd night and get more sleep!

~ DreamOn

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desert rider
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Re: Day 1

Post by desert rider » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:30 am

A quick update...

Thanks again to so many of you for your support. Every day is better than the day before. It's definitely an adjustment, but baby steps are OK I guess.
Scarlet834 wrote: I have the M Series Pro myself, but you'll find lots of discussion on the boards of what machines are the best. (Though I suspect an upgrade to the same brand might be easier to maneuver with your medical providers.)
Scarlet834 wins the prize for Prophet of the Month. I quickly figured out that I needed to upgrade, but my primary physician is still a knuckle-dragger. I knew I couldn't win him over by explaining that an informed patient is better than a sheep. So I explained to him that my co-pay for the rental fees for the entry-level M Series Plus were more than the purchase price of a better unit at CPAP.COM (I didn't even broach the topic of data availability). So I finally got a prescription out of him and upgraded my equipment.

Last night was my first night with the new blower and a new mask too. My wife has complained every night about "something weird" about the sound of the machine and the sound that I make. She even videoed me one night, but all I could see was aliens making crop circles and Bigfoot playing badminton with a unicorn in our backyard; somehow she couldn't quite focus in on the one immobile being in the room.

Anyway, I took her word for it that the machine was loud and that I wasn't breathing optimally through my nasal mask. So when I ordered the new machine I got a new mask too. So last night was my first night with the new M Series Pro (like Scarlet834 said, take what you can "maneuver" for) and the new FF Quattro mask. I also got the "Whisper Cap" to quiet things down for my wife. I can't believe the difference. I didn't fight the mask at night and the blower never bothered my wife or me. I still need to dial in the mask to cut down the leaks a little, but it's a million% improvement.

So I spent a bunch of time fighting the data today. I run 64bit Vista on my PC, so the Encore Viewer wouldn't run. I fought a good fight, but finally gave up. I tried installing in Windows Virtual PC, but learned that Virtual PC doesn't include USB support. I researched a couple of other VM apps and settled on Sun's VirtualBox with its USB support. That one looked the most promising and tantalized me with incremental success, but finally gave me the Blue Screen of Death when it recognized the USB drivers for the SmartCard reader. So I conceded defeat. Just to make sure that my CPAP/card configuration were recording any data at all I installed the app on my son's junky machine and saw some decent numbers (still need to work on the leaks). I uninstalled it from his machine though, because his machine really doesn't do me any good.

So I guess my next step is to try to get a refund from cpap.com for the EncoreViewer software, since it says "Windows Vista Home" on the Requirements page. I'll see about upgrading to Encore Pro. It looks like there are some work-arounds (a SQL reinstall?) to get it to run on Vista 64. I won't have the time to upgrade to Win 7 before the end of the year.

Let's see, the one other technical hurdle worked out fine. I did upgrade the batteries in my RV for our camping trip last weekend. We now have two sets of two deep-cycle 6v batteries. It's kind of arcane, but picture the batteries in a flashlight: when you put two AA batteries in a row with one's positive end against the other's negative end, you end up with a stronger bank of batteries. So I started out with two deep-cycle six-volt batteries connected pos/neg to make a more powerful twelve-volt system. That has worked fine for us for years. But now that I need to run something overnight, I added another system just like that. So now I have two sets of two 6v batteries, which still makes a 12v system, but it runs longer. The "pure sine" vs. "modified sine" issue wasn't a problem--the humidifier ran just fine.

I guess that wasn't a "quick" updated. I'm stalling while my wife and daughter watch a month's worth of episodes of their "Supernatural" show on our TiVo upstairs. I'll get my turn soon enough. Anyway, thanks again everyone for the advice and support. I expect to transform from "walking dead" to full fledged "mortal" any day now.

- Dave

_________________
Mask: Mirage Quattro™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Pressure = 12 • C-Flex = 3 • Day 1 = 11/06/2009
"Being an optimist has its ups."

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DoriC
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Re: Day 1

Post by DoriC » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:57 am

Hi Desert Rider, I just reread this thread and was wondering what pressure you were titrated at and is that the pressure you're set up for and what Cflex level you're using? Also with FF masks most of us need some sort of special cpap bed pillow to help with mask leaks. I know, lots of questions but they can be important if you need help in adjusting to therapy. Also, you can see your data for one night on your machine but you have to go through some steps(not complicated if I can do it ). I'm sorry I'm not computer savvy enough to search, copy/paste but if you check wulfman,RestedGal or Pugsy posts, they've given the directions numerous times. Dori

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Mask: Mirage Quattro™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: 14/8.4,PS=4, UMFF, 02@2L,
"Do or Do Not-There Is No Try"-"Yoda"
"We are what we repeatedly do,so excellence
is not an act but a habit"-"Aristotle"
DEAR HUBBY BEGAN CPAP 9/2/08

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DoriC
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Re: Day 1

Post by DoriC » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:03 am

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41178&p=361181&hili ... ta#p361181

Ha,Ha!! I think I did this right! Even old dogs can learn new tricks!

_________________
Mask: Mirage Quattro™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: 14/8.4,PS=4, UMFF, 02@2L,
"Do or Do Not-There Is No Try"-"Yoda"
"We are what we repeatedly do,so excellence
is not an act but a habit"-"Aristotle"
DEAR HUBBY BEGAN CPAP 9/2/08

DreamOn
Posts: 1920
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Re: Day 1

Post by DreamOn » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:30 am

Desert rider,

It's great that you got a machine capable of giving you the data you need to monitor your therapy! And it's wonderful to hear that you're making steady improvement.

You may want to post a separate thread asking for ideas regarding the Encore Viewer software installation before you give up completely. Chances are good that someone else has had the same problem and found a fix!

As you're working on the leaks, be sure to consider air leaks from both the mask and mouth. I was surprised to discover that I was losing a bit of therapy air through my mouth during the night. It rarely woke me up. I fixed that with a PAPcap chin strap, and now I have zero leaks every night.

Wishing you continued success,

DreamOn

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desert rider
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Re: Day 1

Post by desert rider » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:51 am

DoriC wrote:Hi Desert Rider, I just reread this thread and was wondering what pressure you were titrated at and is that the pressure you're set up for and what Cflex level you're using?
Titrated at 12 and my machine is set to 12.
Cflex is set to 3.
Also with FF masks most of us need some sort of special cpap bed pillow to help with mask leaks.
I'm stubbornly hanging onto my pillow for now. It's one thing that's stable and familiar.
I'm sorry I'm not computer savvy enough to search, copy/paste but if you check wulfman,RestedGal or Pugsy posts, they've given the directions numerous times. Dori
Looks like you sold yourself short. Thanks for finding the link.

_________________
Mask: Mirage Quattro™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Pressure = 12 • C-Flex = 3 • Day 1 = 11/06/2009
"Being an optimist has its ups."

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desert rider
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Re: Day 1

Post by desert rider » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:54 am

DreamOn wrote:I fixed that with a PAPcap chin strap, and now I have zero leaks every night.
I have a strap, but haven't used it yet. I'm trying to minimize my horrific appearance for my wife. She's being very patient, but I don't want to press my luck.

_________________
Mask: Mirage Quattro™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Pressure = 12 • C-Flex = 3 • Day 1 = 11/06/2009
"Being an optimist has its ups."

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Uncle_Bob
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Re: Day 1

Post by Uncle_Bob » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:09 pm

desert rider wrote:
DreamOn wrote:I fixed that with a PAPcap chin strap, and now I have zero leaks every night.
I have a strap, but haven't used it yet. I'm trying to minimize my horrific appearance for my wife. She's being very patient, but I don't want to press my luck.
For me starting CPAP was half about dealing with masks leaks and half about keeping the wife happy

Welcome desert rider it seems like you are off to a good start.

Like you I hung onto the nasal pillow mask for a long time, even with all the chinstraps and mouth taping i was eventually forced to give in. I started to get a bit congested due to allergies in the AM so was forced into a full face mask.

DreamOn
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Re: Day 1

Post by DreamOn » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:01 pm

[post deleted]
Last edited by DreamOn on Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Uncle_Bob
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Re: Day 1

Post by Uncle_Bob » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:13 pm

DreamOn wrote:
desert rider wrote:I'm stubbornly hanging onto my pillow for now. It's one thing that's stable and familiar.
I understand, desert rider!

For some of us, it's our pillow. Others cling to their favorite blankie. For me, it's Mr. Sock Monkey:

Image

He never disappoints.

~ DreamOn
(who needs to get a real life!)
Mr sock monkey doesn't look to happy about the amount of condensation in his hose