Velbor trumps Katherine in Featured Article

[katherinefulmer]

Alright, so here's the rundown on the featured article of the week. The forum's own Velbor was having a gander of the CPAP Wiki not long ago. Like many of you, Velbor went straight for the Mask Leak article. It's a problem all CPAP users (and their bed partners) have to deal with. It's important stuff!

Well, Velbor saw what was there already and thought - Nope, the article just didn't capture the 'dearth of knowledge and profundity of misinformation about 'leak.' (Oh yes, our Velbor has a way with words) So Velbor took over, and we couldn't be happier or prouder!

You might think it's tough to get trumped by another member...

But actually it's exciting to know that our community is embracing our hard work and improving upon it. So check out Velbor's contribution, and follow his example. If he's missed something, login and add to it. This can be as simple as copying and pasting from a CPAPtalk post or writing new material.

Drumroll please.... Velbor's Featured Article

[Slinky]

Ahh, but Velbor, my very special and first CPAP friend, you said:

... (Naturally, only ResMed masks are included, so users of non-ResMed interfaces need to select the ResMed mask which is closest in pressure/flow characteristics to the mask they are using.) ...

You KNOW better than that! The PROPER Mask Selection for a non-Resmed mask used w/a Resmed xPAP is the STANDARD Mask Selection so you KNOW EXACTLY how to determine the REAL Leak rate - add 24 L/M (0.4 L/s) to the reported Leak rate. Ooops! Edit: Then compare the reported Leak rate PLUS the 24 L/M to the allowed vent rate for your mask and your set or reported pressure.

And (as an aside) one needs to be sure to select Mack's SILICONE Ear Plugs if one opts to use this hint as Mack's does make another kind of ear plug besides the SILICONE ear plugs.

Great article, Velbor. Forgive my nit-picking.

And one other Edit: SazRPSGT has reported that they have used AliMed Therapy Putty for mask leaks and just recently discovered that it is just like SILLY PUTTY and that SILLY PUTTY works just as well! Just roll it so it's about spaghetti thickness. It just needs to cover the trouble area where the mask leaks are occurring

[Velbor]

The PROPER Mask Selection for a non-Resmed mask used w/a Resmed xPAP is the STANDARD Mask Selection so you KNOW EXACTLY how to determine the REAL Leak rate - add 24 L/M (0.4 L/s) to the reported Leak rate.

And (as an aside) one needs to be sure to select Mack's SILICONE Ear Plugs if one opts to use this hint as Mack's does make another kind of ear plug besides the SILICONE ear plugs.

Dearest Slinky,

I don't know quite where the idea that entering "STANDARD" on a ResMed machine will simply subtract a flat 0.4 lps from the "total" leak, regardless of pressure. I do not believe this to be accurate. I've commented on this in a post regarding multiple leak questions:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43192&p=382469#p382469

Older ResMed documentation is more thorough in this regard than more recent material I've seen. You're just too young for those S-7 documents. But us old'uns remember .... at least on good days.

Thanks for the Macks clarification. One of these days I'll get around to doing some minor clean-ups, and hopefully I'll remember to put that in!!

Blessings, Velbor

[Slinky]

That 24 L/M (0.4 L/s) came straight from Resmed headquarters. Shortly after starting CPAP therapy in 2006 w/a Resmed S8 Elite I e-mailed Resmed and asked: what mask setting should I use for a non-Resmed mask, how do I figure my Leak rate w/a non-Resmed mask.

[katherinefulmer]

This is great to see! Hash it out in the thread - if you think the wiki article is inaccurate - update the wiki - then others will see it and benefit from it - you are free to update others' work - it is not a negative, but a positive for future readers.

To edit a Wiki article, go to the article page. In this instance we would go here. Click the 'edit' button located on the top grey bar. Edit away!

Articles posted on the CPAPWiki are property of the community and may be edited at anytime. Velbor did a great job contributing to the article I started, and that is the momentum we want to continue – positive changes for a more positive learning environment. I encourage all of you to make changes in a way that will improve the community's understanding of leaks and how to avoid them.

You've brought up a great point. Citing sources. You can do this quite easily on the Wiki and anyone who's written a research paper knows the importance of it.

Velbor, you can cite a CPAPtalk thread, a RMD manual, a science journal, outside site, anything– To do so, simply just paste the link into your contribution.

I love that the Wiki is inspiring you all all of you. Be brave and confident in your views and add them to articles so everyone can benefit from them.

[Slinky]

Velbor, I OWE YOU A PUBLIC APOLOGY!!! It rather bothered me that your experience didn't jive w/what Resmed had told me.

Enough so that I went looking for where I stashed the e-mail from them regarding Mask Selection and Leak rate. It took me awhile as you can see.

10:39 AM - 06/06/07 The allowed leak is 0.4L/s (24L/min). The S8 Elite and Vantage will compensate for higher leaks with increased pressure as they both have pressure and flow sensors.

Kind Regards,
Technical Service
ResMed Corp.

HOWEVER, whenever I referred back to this e-mailed reply I obviously did NOT read down to MY QUESTION to Resmed.

When one uses the Standard mask selection with the Resmed S8 Elite or Resmed S8 Vantage what is the allowed (and subtracted?) leak rate for that selection setting at a pressure of 8 cms for the Elite or a pressure range of 7 cms to 11 cms for the Vantage?

And thus I have spread false advice repeatedly in our various apnea support forums when those who knew better FROM EXPERIENCE advised, as you have, to choose the Mask Selection w/the AVR closest to the non-Resmed mask you will be using.



Forgive me for ever doubting you. And now I shall go eat worms.

[Velbor]

.... I obviously did NOT read down to MY QUESTION to Resmed.

Looks to me like it's ResMed Customer Service which failed to read and answer your WHOLE question. (Surprise!!) Looking at the graph, they gave you the right answer for expected venting of the "Standard" mask at 8cm, which just happened to be the same as the "magic number" of 0.40 lps. It appears that they failed to provide you with the variable venting rate between 7 and 11cm, which would have avoided the confusion.

.... And thus I have spread false advice repeatedly in our various apnea support forums when those who knew better FROM EXPERIENCE advised, as you have, to choose the Mask Selection w/the AVR closest to the non-Resmed mask you will be using.

I'm sure glad that I've NEVER been guilty of such a thing! How much of my commentary is due to experience (and not all experience, I fear, is always profitable), and how much is due to my "geekiness" (a very positive quality, I've convinced myself), is quite open to debate. And to show my level of foolish encouragement of debate (which I hold to be a good in its own right, as long as it's civil - and I'm ALWAYS civil - except perhaps when I write with an evil smirk), I've decided to tread where angels fear to go, and start a WIKI article on another of my favorite topics, Cleaning CPAP Equipment. You may believe that everything I say is absolutely true.

.... Forgive me for ever doubting you. And now I shall go eat worms.

Forgiven, absolved, and loved as always. With Thanksgiving approaching, think of me with kindness, and the worm-eating may be dispensed with in favor of other nourishment. Blessings, Velbor