Increase in apneas last night

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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KatieW
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Re: Increase in apneas last night

Post by KatieW » Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:07 am

SleepyT wrote:Katie...glad your night was better. Wondering about the benedryl though. Some of the posters here say benedryl can make apneas worse. If congestion is a problem, I use the generic version of Zyrtec (called Equate Allergy...cetirizine hydrochloride)...which is not supposed to interfere with apnea issues.

Just a thought!
I used benadryl because it's all I had in the medicine cabinet. But, after doing a search on that, I won't use it again at bedtime! Will check out alternatives at Walmart today. Thank you for telling me.

SuperGeeky--interestingly, I actually didn't have a increase in apneas, but sure did feel groggy this morning. We'll keep an eye on that smoke detector, for any wiring problems.

You guys are like detectives, seeking out little clues. Thank you!

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DreamOn
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Re: Increase in apneas last night

Post by DreamOn » Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:16 am

KatieW wrote:My husband got up on a ladder and blew on it, and it stopped flashing. A bug in there?
Hi Katie! Some years ago we had our smoke detector go off like that for no known reason. What a rude awakening that was! It scared the heck out of us!!! I was most concerned for our animals, though, as they were unable to cover their ears.

Anyway, at the time I learned that spiders have been known to set off smoke detectors, so that could have been it. In your case, perhaps it could've been excess dust/particulate matter if this is a newly constructed home?

Glad to hear that you're doing well!

~ DreamOn

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Kiralynx
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Re: Increase in apneas last night

Post by Kiralynx » Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:20 am

Katie,

Since I live in a mold-n-mildew capital, I looked for solutions on congestion. One of the best is doing nasal washes a couple hours before bedtime.

I started my Bipap on 28 October last year, and used the washes up until mid-May, then didn't seem to need them again (well, except for a bout of allergies which sent me to my Zzz-mask full face when we were in Milwaukee) until now... now I'm back to nose-sloshing again. There must be something which comes out of hiding in cooler weather my my nose just doesn't like. Or maybe it's the turning on of the heater.

Additionally, bromelain and quercetin can do wonders for allergies. I get them at a local Vitamin Shoppe. I learned about them from Dr. Michael Janssen and his Vitamin Revolution in Healthcare which, although an older book, I can recommend highly for clear explanations of what these vitamins and supplements can do. (He's a vegetarian, though, so I ignore that part of his advice as I am very decidedly an omnivore, shading towards carnivore.) I can state that since following his advice about the vitamin C and quercetin, I quit having my every three months bouts with bronchitis -- my last one was in April, and the one prior to that was in March of 2008. Mega-improvement. Dr. Janssen used to participate in a Forum I was part of, which was how I found his book.

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Re: Increase in apneas last night

Post by jweeks » Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:42 am

Kiralynx wrote:There must be something which comes out of hiding in cooler weather my my nose just doesn't like. Or maybe it's the turning on of the heater.
Kiralynx,

Do you have force air heat? If so, maybe it is something with your heating system. You might want to consider getting your heating ducts cleaned. You might also want to have the furnace checked out. It isn't uncommon to get mold in the A-coil of a central A/C system, and the winter heat might be causing that to get into your home. A good 4 inch or 5 inch furnace filter might help, as might a U/V element in your air path. Finally, an air exchanger might be something to consider. Just a thought.

Also, do you check the humidity in your house from time to time? It might be that you have much lower humidity now that the house is closed up for the winter.

I also seem to get hit this time of the year. A biggie is all the people burning leaves putting smoke and smoke particulate into the air. That is followed by the dust and mold from the leaves. It seems to get much better for me once we get a good hard freeze.

-john-

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timbalionguy
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Re: Increase in apneas last night

Post by timbalionguy » Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:06 pm

Interesting about the leaves and the cold. My therapy results have been all over the place since I started xPAP in late April. About four weeks ago, I closed up my house, and have been intermittently using central heat (generally, a warm fall!). However, about a week ago, we had a really solid freeze, actually almost record cold for late October. Since about that time, my therapy results have leveled off, and I now have had the best run of low AHI's since I started xPAP. I'm wondering if I don't have some mild allergies I am not aware of, and the hard freeze dealt with the causative agents.

As far as smoke detectors go, dust and insects can definitely be a problem. Here is an amusing story of what can happen when dust gets in a smoke detector. When I lived in Rochester, NY, we built a new TV studio there. Rochester is one of a handful of Eastern cities that have a 'Holly Sysytem', a high pressure water distribution system used for fighting fires in tall buildings. The TV station was right across the street from the pressure source for the Holly system, and the building's fire sprinklers were on that system. The pressure was so high that we still had 125 PSI on the fourth floor, where the studio was located. The sprinkler system in the studio was called a 'deluge system'. It would normally not be filled with water unless a smoke detector went off. This prevented property loss from a accidental sprinkler head being broken, etc.

Well, anyway, they goofed up the concrete floor in the studio when they poured it, and it was uneven. (A TV camera would roll by itself on that floor!). So, they ground down the high spots on the floor, and filled in the low spots, creating a lot of dust in the process. They never bothered to bag the smoke detectors while they were doing this. So, the day they did their first live show, they had the studio lights on all day while they aimed them. They went live with the show (called 'Homework Hotilne) at 5 PM. All the heat from the lights had worked on the dust in the smoke detectors all day, and vlioa! right in the middle of the show, the smoke detectors triggered and the fire alarm was set off. This was followed by an earthshaking rumble when the sprinkler system pressurized with the aforementioned high pressure water. The talent tried really hard to keep a straight face while this was going on, and they managed to make it through the show OK. (About a year later, the same talent did a smoky 'science experiment', and it happened again!)

So yeah, dust in a smoke detector is not a good thing, especially if it is in new construction!
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Re: Increase in apneas last night

Post by Mtnviewer » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:37 pm

AHI 5.3
For me when my AHI index has been that high, or even iver 3, it's been a poor sleep & I've been tired all day long. With my efforts to stay off my back, my AHI is usually below 2.0 and most often below 1.0. Occassionally it gets up to 3+, (no longer over 4), & I don't feel as good & surmize that I've been busy in changing my head position. To work on minimizing positional apneas, no Benadryl is required .

I've tried this anti-snore shirt product & belt, which are very well made, but neither worked well enough for me as I just rolled right over them without effect. I also didn't like their somewhat derogatory view of CPAP & let them know that their product should be in addition to PAP therapy for some/most, vs. instead of. Customer service was pretty good. One or both products might work for some who don't move much or are more sensitive? I also replaced the air bumpers with blue styrofoam, but that wasn't enough either as I learned to roll partially onto my back & the AHI went up & I felt tired after.

http://www.antisnoreshirt.com/

and recently I've found this one which is more like the shape & size I'm using now in my homemade devices:

http://www.tomedcare.com/index.php

I wonder if positional apneas are more common that we consider (and for some the "main" problem to induce apneas) as I rarely read folks being concerned about dealing with body & head position, other than by ever increasing the PAP pressures when the AHI goes up or one feels tired?

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Re: Increase in apneas last night

Post by BlackSpinner » Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:19 pm

Smoke alarms also go off when there is water. A couple of years ago I woke up at 3 am with it going off - water was dripping out of it and down the walls - the upstairs toilet had sprung a leak. The leak was over/in my closet with my fabrics so I spent the rest of the night emptying the closet, moving furniture. Called the land lord at 6 am to tell him the news. I was very happy to be awakened by the "smoke" alarm so I could save my fabrics form toilet water!

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Re: Increase in apneas last night

Post by DreamOn » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:54 pm

Mtnviewer wrote:I wonder if positional apneas are more common that we consider (and for some the "main" problem to induce apneas) as I rarely read folks being concerned about dealing with body & head position, other than by ever increasing the PAP pressures when the AHI goes up or one feels tired?
I believe this tendency toward supine apnea is because the tongue and other tissues are pushed back due to gravity, obstructing the airway.

In the book Sleep Apnea: The Phantom of the Night, by T. Scott Johnson, M.D. et al., on page 134 it states:

"Some patients snore only when lying on their backs. Apneas are usually more frequent and severe when patients sleep on their backs. One-third to one-half of patients exhibit sleep apneas only on their backs. These individuals are typically less obese and have less severe obstructions."

The authors go on to mention devices to prevent back-sleeping, such as a tennis ball placed into a pocket sewn on the back of a t-shirt, a backpack with a large foam cube or volleyball, audible alarms that alert the patient when he/she rolls onto their back, and straps to hinder rolling completely.

I learned during my sleep studies that almost all my events occur when I'm on my back. I used this homemade contraption for a few weeks before starting CPAP. It looks a little silly (and some say a bit naughty), but it did keep me from rolling onto my back during the night. I know that you've said that tennis balls didn't work for you, Mtnviewer, but perhaps this idea could be adapted somehow?

Image

I cut a hole in the bottom of a tube sock, guided an old belt through the sock, put in two tennis balls, and secured the tennis balls in place with three rubber bands. I wore it wrapped around my upper body, just under my armpits, with the tennis balls on my upper back. Another position may work better for someone else, but it worked great for me! It didn't cost me anything since I had all the materials.

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Kiralynx
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Re: Increase in apneas last night

Post by Kiralynx » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:16 pm

jweeks wrote:Do you have force air heat? If so, maybe it is something with your heating system. You might want to consider getting your heating ducts cleaned. You might also want to have the furnace checked out. It isn't uncommon to get mold in the A-coil of a central A/C system, and the winter heat might be causing that to get into your home. A good 4 inch or 5 inch furnace filter might help, as might a U/V element in your air path. Finally, an air exchanger might be something to consider. Just a thought.
Heating ducts have been cleaned; doesn't change thing. We have both the heating and the AC checked at the appropriate major use seasons. (Hey, I've used the AC on New Year's Eve!) We have a good filter.

<grin> We're careful -- can't help but be, living in a mold and mildew capitol of the south, and you don't wanna know what this place was like after Hurricane Katrina.

What actually does me in more than being at home is when I go OAA or to work.

Still, you raise excellent points that may benefit someone else with these issues.
jweeks wrote:Also, do you check the humidity in your house from time to time? It might be that you have much lower humidity now that the house is closed up for the winter.
Yep, we do (have lower humidity) and yep, we do use a humidifier. I've been known to come home from work, with my nose all dry and stuffy, and just BREATHE in the moisture from the house humidifier. The humidifier on my Bipap goes through twice the water now that it does in summer.
jweeks wrote:I also seem to get hit this time of the year. A biggie is all the people burning leaves putting smoke and smoke particulate into the air. That is followed by the dust and mold from the leaves. It seems to get much better for me once we get a good hard freeze.
What's a good, hard freeze?

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Re: Increase in apneas last night

Post by hawkwind » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:35 pm

I had a high AHI a couple of nights ago, 8.6. I had been consistently under 5. I had taken a Tylenol PM before going to sleep
. I just wondered if Tylenol PM could do the same thing as Benedryl???

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Re: Increase in apneas last night

Post by Pugsy » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:58 pm

hawkwind wrote:I had a high AHI a couple of nights ago, 8.6. I had been consistently under 5. I had taken a Tylenol PM before going to sleep
. I just wondered if Tylenol PM could do the same thing as Benedryl???
http://www.drugs.com/mtm/tylenol-pm.html

Benadryl (diphenhydramine), which causes drowsiness, is the "PM" drug additive in Tylenol PM.

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Re: Increase in apneas last night

Post by Muse-Inc » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:26 pm

timbalionguy wrote:...amusing story of what can happen when dust gets in a smoke detector...
Ah, the joys of live TV, love it! Funny story, thanks for sharing!
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