A Reply To Leejgbt and Rooster

[roster]

This is getting too civil for me. I'm out of here.

[DoriC]

This is "my forum" and I take pride in all the help given here for all who are struggling with this disease, especially by one of my favorite people. I know we can do better than this. I wonder how this discussion would go if it were being held face-to-face? Thank you Lee for your viewpoint.

I guess I should have clarified that I was referring especially to Rooster. He has been a great help but posts like these just make me uneasy. Good night to all.

[roster]

......

I guess I should have clarified that I was referring especially to Rooster. He has been a great help but posts like these just make me uneasy. Good night to all.

Dori, Maybe you can also be specific about what I posted that made you uneasy. I reread all my posts and the only thing I might change in hindsight is the expression "sorry lie". Maybe that was enough to make you uneasy.

I do believe there are plenty of people out there that are able to use their biases and positions of power to thwart patients from taking control of their therapy. I am intolerant of that.

[DoriC]

Rooster, I'm no match for you. All I'm saying is that although my jaws clenched as yours must have when I read Lee's post and I've described before that same attitude that we endured in our own experience with the "medical field", I have to respect anyone who comes here to give his point of view even though he/she clearly must be educated about this subject. He's not here in the trenches with us and doesn't have a clue about what we go through. I'm just concerned that we may be throwing out the baby with the bath water and we may silence some good DME or RT from coming here to give their perspective but mainly for them to learn to help the patients they treat. The best outcome we could achieve is to make them better at their jobs and keep them here to be taught by the best and the brightest. Now don't be mad and say something funny! Dori

[Hawthorne]

Dori has said it well! While we get frustrated with SOME of the DME/RT people who come on the forum, some are helpful.

Dealing with any of them in a confrontational matter does not help anyone. When we do this, people tend to reply "in kInd" and we end up with back and forth attacks. If we could state our opinion or position without derogatory and antagonistic comments, we might get further.

No, I am not going to go through the threads (many) where this has happened and point out specific antagonistic and confrontational statements. People know what they have said and how they have said it.

They might even stay and hear us if we didn't attack immediately!

[aka fuzzy96]

somethings are best left unsaid .
those who outright want to be confrontational and come in here to rouse the querry may be better off ignored. thier minds are closed to start with.
no problems here with stating a point of view . that's part of how we learn here.

one good thing from there threads is a good chuckle my twisted sleep deprived brain gives me from reading here

[roster]

You guys deal with the leejgbts patiently and kindly. I just like to knock them back into their gopher holes when they pop up with their nonsense.

There are forums where professionals dominate the discussion and I don't find them as valuable as cpaptalk.com.

Now that is not to say there aren't some great professionals. Dr. Steven Park and Dr. Mack Jones are at the top of my list and there are a few locally that I trust and can have good discussions with.

BTW, I post incorrect things in this forum and my expectation is to be corrected in curt clear terms.

Gotta go cook chili for lunch!

[cinco777]

Rooster wrote

I just like to knock them back into their gopher holes when they pop up with their nonsense.

I'm a "numbers" guy. When I run across a posting from anyone on this forum or other forums that I frequent (like the MS Excel community) that references numbers/results/outcomes that pique my curiosity or offer me a learning experience, I like to follow up as I am naturally (maybe genetically) curious. My "numbers" curiosity may have its origin in my strongly held belief that 1 + 1 = 2 (in our universe and any alternate ones). Whether it is a member posting numbers from their own sleep reports (EV/EP/spreadsheet/etc.) or a member posting "results" of a study/analyses, if I am curious about the methodology used and the results obtained, I ask for more explanation and details (check my postings for numerous examples). I have found that fellow board members are very responsive to my inquiries. When asked about my posted "numbers", I do my best to explain the assumptions, methodology(s), and rationale reflected in my "numbers".

When a response is not forthcoming after repeated requests and I suspect that the numbers/methodology/results are misinformed/misleading/false, my frustration index increases as I'm concerned that others, less curious than me, may accept, even partially, the undocumented/unsupported claims or statements. The claim made by leejgbt is a very damning one to members of the CPAPTalk community, and one that I feel needs to be investigated. When I failed, after a thorough search, to find an AASM study with his claim of 60% Compliance with B&M DME acquired machines vs 3% Compliance with Online acquired machines - I asked him for more details to help me locate his referenced study. Finding it, if it truly exists, is still HIgh on my CPAP-related ToDo list.

[cflame1]

Just a thought on that survey... because I believe that it's invalid as well.

How many of us that have bought machines on the internet even have to provide compliance? After all... providing compliance means dealing with insurance... which lately means dealing with a B&M DME.

So if I'd have to guess... the reason that the compliance is so low... is that we haven't needed to report it.

[Slinky]

Or consider a typo - and 30% instead of 3%.

[Scarlet834]

I decided to try finding a relevant study but I bombed out. I did find this study that references increased compliance with more intensive follow-up care. http://www.erj.ersjournals.com/cgi/cont ... t/33/4/804 Since we've recently been discussing DMEs who more or less drop and vanish, I found it interesting. I think this forum serves as the after-care for those who don't get the level of service described in the article. Honestly, I don't see how a 3% compliance rate could be accurate unless it's for folks who try to go it completely alone, without even a forum or anything more than the machine manual.

I agree with the point about someone who purchases online, especially without the involvement of an insurance company. Why would there be a need to report out on compliance in that case?

[GumbyCT]

Or consider a typo - and 30% instead of 3%.

I think making assumptions will only compound the confusion. I feel only the OP can make clear what was meant by what was posted.
Cuz maybe it was just a flat out lie!! Which is exactly what I believe at this point.

JMMO (Just My Meaningless Opinion)

[mars]

You guys deal with the leejgbt patiently and kindly. I just like to knock them back into their gopher holes when they pop up with their nonsense.

There are forums where professionals dominate the discussion and I don't find them as valuable as cpaptalk.com.

Now that is not to say there aren't some great professionals. Dr. Steven Park and Dr. Mack Jones are at the top of my list and there are a few locally that I trust and can have good discussions with.

BTW, I post incorrect things in this forum and my expectation is to be corrected in curt clear terms.

Gotta go cook chili for lunch!

Well. good on you Rooster. Then you will not mind others kicking you back into your hen- house when you "pop up" with your malicious nonsense.

So -

In curt clear terms you have caused genuine cpapers to leave this forum because of your hostility.
In curt clear terms to have lied to try to prove your fallacious arguments, and then take the moral high ground with others.
So in curt clear terms you are a hypocrite.

The good that you do does not make up for the bad that you do.

I repeat, people have left the forum because of you. But it appears that as long as you can exploit this forum to vent your issues, instead of dealing with them and moving on, you will do so.

But I for one am sick of your negative lying posts, and irrational attitude towards anything that might help people that is new, that might even save their lives.

I do not know whether this "study" that has been mentioned exists or not, but if Leejgbt does not turn up again, who can blame him.

Rooster, you are well on your way to becoming part of the problem, not part of the solution. You have lied to me personally, and lied to forum members, just to support your irrational ideas. Your sense of humour has got you out of most difficult situations, but tolerance of your intolerance is getting pretty thin.

As for me, I would just as soon be doing something else, but you did not reply, nor have you ever replied, to criticisms of your postings. You just come up with same the old story as quoted above.

You know, I cannot make a post on this forum, on any subject, without wondering who will knock it down, and where the thread will end up.

Finally -

Quote - Leejgbt, You are out of touch with what patients are doing to improve their health. Stay out of their way! End Quote

Will that make anyone change? I don't think so. Allowing someone to experience the wisdom of this forum, without gratuitously attacking them, would be more helpful. Challenge incorrect statements by all means, but generalized attacks do not help anyone.

Quote - leejgbt's posts indicate he has a strong desire to impose his will on others (via FDA regulations at times). In all matters of human interaction, "imposing one's will" on others is the ultimate evil. End Quote.

I love this quote of yours. You stand condemned by your own words. Rooster, the ultimate evil.

We both have better things to do, lets do it

cheers

Mars

[PST]

Rooster, the ultimate evil.

Only on Halloween.

[Really]

Or consider a typo - and 30% instead of 3%.

Cuz maybe it was just a flat out lie!! Which is exactly what I believe at this point.

I think both leeght and mattman have created imaginary DME Co.'s because neither has or will post a way to contact these fantasy places so we can enjoy their wonderful (even free) services. So I don't think they really exist. Really!!