How did the new FullLife stack up against the Quattro: PC11

[katherinefulmer]

Greetings CPAPtalkers,

Pull up a chair. You're going to want to be here for awhile. The lastest Product Challenge results are in and the results are incredible. The reviews tell you all you need to know about the new FullLife mask and the top rated Quattro and then some.

Get comfortable and learn from Product Challenge participants how the new Respironics mask measured up to the ResMed Quattro:

http://mask-full-face-life-quattro.cpap ... n=PC11Post

Meanwhile, a big thank you to all those who enrolled and to those who participated in Product Challenge 11. Your passion and dedication to this process makes these challenges possible. Superior equipment is getting the respect it deserves due to your efforts.

These results, along with summarized comments and stats were sent to the manufacturers of these masks yesterday. We want manufacturers to read your comments. We want you to read these comments. We want DMEs, doctors, end users and ANYONE who is in a position to recommend one of these masks to read these comments. Listening to the end user helps care providers and equipment manufacturers know how to meet the needs of Sleep Apnea patients.

Thank you for supporting Product Challenges and helping us improve product quality.

Best wishes,
Katherine Fulmer
Product Development Analyst
CPAPtalk.com

[DreamDiver]

Wow, am I glad I waited for the trial to finish.
I would love to have gotten a mask without a forehead brace,
but if the Full Life is that troublesome, I'll just try out the quattro.

Did PR even do any home-testing with real users on the Full Life? Ouch.

Unfortunately, when I use the cpap.com measuring system, apparently quattro wouldn't work for me... Argh!

[Uncle_Bob]

Given the experiences of some people here and the poor reviews on cpap.com the PC11 result does not come as much of a surprise.
To me it was more of a surprise when the opus 360 came out level with the Swift LT
I will be able to try out the FullLife myself in a couple of weeks but my DME has gotten rid of their bed so I will be unable to test the mask in the sleeping position, just sat upright in a chair.
My first experience with the Quattro was not good, I was taking it off during the night. I had the adjustable screw fall out, I got the sore nose bridge and crazy leaks resulting in dry mouth etc. In search of a full face backup mask i gave it another try after failed attempts with both hybrid styles and F&P HC432 masks. This time I tried not tightening the straps as much as i did orginally so this time around it was more like floating on my face, I got small leaks of 0.04 and 0.05 and AHI of around 5 with AI's of 0. On top of that i also felt pretty good although a little spaced out but put that down to using a full face over a nasal mask.

I think i will still try the FullLife at the DME but don't feel the de lure of de mask as much as I did when the FullLife was released.

Thanks for doing the challenge.

[Uncle_Bob]

Wow, am I glad I waited for the trial to finish.
I would love to have gotten a mask without a forehead brace,
but if the Full Life is that troublesome, I'll just try out the quattro.

Did PR even do any home-testing with real users on the Full Life? Ouch.

Unfortunately, when I use the cpap.com measuring system, apparently quattro wouldn't work for me... Argh!

I appreciate what the cpap.com are trying to do with their fitting guide but for myself I find it to be inaccurate.

Have you tried the Resmed fitting template for the Quattro?

http://www.resmed.com/us/documents/mira ... mplate.pdf

[Cygnusia]

I am kinda disappointed with the outcome between these two... I was miserable when I tried the Quattro for the first time and had nothing but issues trying to get a decent seal. I have my FullLife loaner at home tonight, and during the time I was testing it and got it comfortable, I was pretty happy with it. Of course, a few days from now might be a different story, but my DME told me that we will keep trying until we get a mask I am comfortable with.

[Guest]

it's amazing for as smart as some of you are to take this "challenge" with any degree of credibility as if it represented the entire world. My gosh. Great, so 50 Quattro users gave the FullLife a chance. For the ones who liked it, great! For the ones who didn't, great! Who cares? You read daily reports on here about the Quattro not sealing, hurting peoples' noses, etc. Then you read about F&P masks falling apart, etc. These are two major billion-dollar companies putting masks on the market. Do you think for a minute that hundreds of people didn't test them and put them through their required hours of testing? Some of your idiotic comments suggest that manufacturers just rush masks to market. While I kind of want to salute what CPAPTalk is trying to do, I can't believe that a semi-intelligent person would give an ounce of credibility to this completely subjective, non-scientific (as if science could determine whether a mask will fit your facial features) project.

Next!

[TWW]

Hah!

(Mumble) (Sputter) (Expletive)

Y'know, this is grossly unfair to a rank newbie.

I've been at this a week, and I am still waiting for my first night all the way through, so I can wake up refreshed like everyone claims I will. Here I've been worrying that I couldn't figure out how to properly use my mask.

In a funny way, the relative universality of problems on this forum has been extremely encouraging. Again, thanks, all of you, for what you've done already.

Before I ever heard of this forum -- indeed, before I even had this sleep study -- I had narrowed the field to the Quattro and the Full-life based on conscious tests at the sleep center. The Quattro was very good, but the full life had the edge due to the ability to use my reading glasses while it was on. In actual use this past week, it was even initially leak-free, until after I fell asleep, experienced apnea, and the bipap machine increased pressure. I repeatedly woke up to leaks, even went back to my Doc yesterday for fitting help from the tech.

Now I have a sore nose. And last night it leaked worse, and sooner, than ever. So, I am going to try it one more night, and see if there's any success. If not, Quattro here I come....

(Rereading the past three paragraphs, I [ uh-oh ] note more occurrences of the word "I" than an Obama speech. Oh well. One guesses that one can't avoid it on a forum with so many personal experiences.

[DreamDiver]

it's amazing for as smart as some of you are to take this "challenge" with any degree of credibility as if it represented the entire world. My gosh. Great, so 50 Quattro users gave the FullLife a chance. For the ones who liked it, great! For the ones who didn't, great! Who cares? You read daily reports on here about the Quattro not sealing, hurting peoples' noses, etc. Then you read about F&P masks falling apart, etc. These are two major billion-dollar companies putting masks on the market. Do you think for a minute that hundreds of people didn't test them and put them through their required hours of testing? Some of your idiotic comments suggest that manufacturers just rush masks to market. While I kind of want to salute what CPAPTalk is trying to do, I can't believe that a semi-intelligent person would give an ounce of credibility to this completely subjective, non-scientific (as if science could determine whether a mask will fit your facial features) project.

Next!

Let me translate that for the board.

Wah, wah, wah. Whine. Wah.

If either of these companies really did their research we would have masks that don't hurt our noses, don't cause raw spots, don't fart, and seal properly around the mouth, sides of the nose and bridge. They would also have the most popular full-face mask on the market.

45 out of 50 is pretty much condemnation, guest. It's better than a coin toss. These are people I know have experience with masks. I trust their reviews - especially one so clear cut. And to design a full-face without quick-releases? I say the Full Life is toast. If this touches a nerve - good. Time to start thinking outside the box. Engage real users during the design process - not after you've invested thousands of labor-hours in a ready-to-fail device. I'll volunteer. I know others would. Get back to the drawing board and design us a winner, please. And for goodness sake - involve us during the design phase - not afterward.

[DreamDiver]

I appreciate what the cpap.com are trying to do with their fitting guide but for myself I find it to be inaccurate.

Have you tried the Resmed fitting template for the Quattro?...

Hi Uncle_Bob,

Thanks for the suggestion. In truth, I'm not just relying on cpap.com's fitting guide. So many people on the board have intimated that facial structure either fits either a UMFF or a Quattro, but usually not both. I already own a UMFF, and it fits the least uncomfortably of those I've tried. I already had some concerns about buying a Quattro for that reason. It was more like a 'last straw' when I looked at my fitting data and read that the Quattro would be unlikely to fit my needs.

I don't doubt that cpap.com is cross-referencing the fitting data they have with sales and customer reviews to come up with their fitting guide considerations. If there are groups of customers with specific fitting data tends to send back specific masks, they're going to have happier customers if they head us off before we can choose poorly, according to others with similar fitting data, eh? I chose from among the suggested masks within my fitting parameters and got return insurance just in case. Wish me luck!

[Eric_M]

Well damn! LOL

I have been on the fulllife for about 6 nights now. 2 of them I didnt wear it letting my nose heal. he sad part is, the lower 95% of this mask is incredible! I cant get it to leak and is very comfortable. However, the upper 5% with the nose bridge issue and hard to seal (stay sealed) around the nose bridge area blowing air into your eyes SUX!

Last night after my 2 day break letting my nose feel better, I put it on again. Not only do I have one laeyer of moleskin on it on the upper inch on both sides, but right in the center at the top, I cut a very small v-shaped piece of of moleskin for a second layer of protection. This seemed to work well. When I went to sleep I had it adjusted so I wasnt even leaking in the eyes, but later throughout the night, it became bothersome. But thinking about it, I wonder the very to strap across the head had slid down a bit. That happened before and pulled the strap back into place fixed it. I did not check that last night.

I still dont know why people complain about the straps. For me, once everything is adjusted 1,2 3 & 4. I rlease the 2's, pull the mask over to the front, then pull it off easily. To put it on, put it in place and adjust the 2 straps... im golden.

[katherinefulmer]

Thank you for taking the time to read the results yesterday. Today we highlight participant comments and trends among reviews.

For the past week, CPAPtalk.com has gone through these reviews with a fine tooth comb. We see the trends in the reviews. If you read all 100 of them (each of the 50 participants writes a separate review for the involved products) it is easy to see that participant experience of these masks varied only slightly.

• * 42 Participants reported leaks with the FullLife. Most leaks occurred near the bridge of the nose causing air to blow into the eyes of participants. Two participants hypothesized this was due to the limited height and increased depth of the mask. There was also a positive correlation between leak occurrence and pressure level

• * Of the 17 who identified themselves as side and active sleepers, 14 found the FullLife mask lost its seal as they moved and/or would cause 'blow out.’ The degree of mask protrusion was identified as a possible cause

• * Of the 10 female participants, 7 chose the Quattro finding the FullLife mask material an improvement but still 'too hard on a woman’s delicate skin,' and the straps would not stay in place on fine hair

• * Comfort on the bridge of the nose was needed by 17 participants who reported red marks after FullLife wear, several participants hypothesized that this is related to the lack of forehead brace. The FullLife has only one point of contact which distributes the pressure over a smaller area of skin causing a point of pressure and pain
  The two straps of the FullLife headgear slipped off the heads of 7 participants

• * 35 Participants stated they wanted the FullLife mask to include headgear clips

• * More intermediate sizes are needed of both masks as well as a size below ‘Small’ according to 14 users

For the 5 who selected the FullLife this quote highlights what these participants experienced:

At first the bridge of my nose was really hurt and abraided by the mask. After I healed up, I refitted it with a much looser seal. It worked great with some small air leaks which were eliminated with small adjustments. -Robert

For the 45 who selected the Quattro the following quotes represented common themes found in their comments:

The design (of the FullLife) looked great at first glance, but once using the mask, I had to choose between face pain from the mask being too tight – or a leaky noisy mask. - Patrick

The Mirage Quattro mask has an excellent seal. I rarely woke up because of a leak. And that's what therapy is all about, isn't it? – if the mask doesn't leak, it's much easier to stick with the treatment. - Teresa

2 Elements that were clear that most participants would want in any CPAP mask are:

• 1. Headgear clips - like those of the Quattro

• 2. Quick release between the hose and the mask - like that on the FullLife

Many of the participants, even those who voted for the Quattro noted they are still looking for a better mask:

Of the 2 masks, this one (the Quattro) would probably be my choice, but this one does not really work completely for me either. Still in search of the perfect full face mask!! - Ronda

Product Challenge participants did an amazing job articulating the superior and problematic features of both masks. Their thorough reviews and specificity are what help manufacturers know best how to answer their needs in their future designs and help users and health professionals know what to expect.

[BleepingBeauty]

I'm honestly surprised at the results. I thought the FullLife would fare much better than it did in this trial, notwithstanding the nose-bridge issues (which seem to be a problem with many FFMs). It took weeks of moleskin use before I could wear the FullLife without it, and the mask still produces a bump on my nose just below where the seal sits (with or without moleskin). I don't like the bump, obviously, but I DO like the mask for the good therapy I can get from it.

The one thing about this mask that I really don't understand: Respironics designed one of the best easy-release clips (between mask and hose) that I've ever seen. And yet, there's not ONE quick-release clip on any of the headgear straps. What ARE they thinking???

You really have to wonder who's doing the market research on these designs, 'cause it sure doesn't seem that the manufacturers are listening to the feedback of actual xPAP users.

[GaryG]

Hey, I don't see any love here for another respironics mask. The Fit Life. I've had a week of useage. No leaks. yes it's large. But doesn't touch the nose, very easy to adjust.

[BleepingBeauty]

Hey, I don't see any love here for another respironics mask. The Fit Life.

Maybe that's because this thread is about the FullLife v Quattro challenge.

[GaryG]

Hey, I don't see any love here for another respironics mask. The Fit Life.

Maybe that's because this thread is about the FullLife v Quattro challenge.

DUH. Sorry about that.