Apneas during Meditation/Guided Imagery?

[tattooyu]

Damn you UB, your avatar is making me hungry!

I was thinking about getting the audio book as well. So far, I'm not hugely impressed with the Dr. Amen book, but it is interesting. I hope his exercises aren't stuff I'm already doing.
If that doesn't help, I am going to try the book suggested by Carbonman. I looked into biofeedback, but there is just no way I can afford it right now.

[Muse-Inc]

Re L-Glutamine: check out this site http://www.thewayup.com/newsletters/041501.htm
I like this statement and will have to investigate as I've not read this before:

Research suggests Glutamine may protect the brain cells in situations of decreased oxygen supply.

[mars]

[quote="tattooyu"].

As homework, she had me make a list of affirmations of how I want to be and think. Last night she talked me through some guided imagery/hypnosis to try and reinforce those affirmations. However, I felt as if my body was resisting the relaxation.

[/end quote]

My understanding and experience of using affirmations is that if they are the opposite of what you believe, then saying the affirmation will simply cause stress, and do no good whatsoever. It is far better to stop awfulising the negative, and to affirm that you can handle those situations, even though you may not handle them as well as you would like to, but that you can cope with them, and will work at coping with them better.

Another point is that it is far more powerful to attack negative irrational beliefs that cause stress, and get rid of them, than it is to try to create new beliefs with the old one's still intact.

[quote="TrueBlue"]

Meditation is about calming the mind but being fully conscious of what's happening around you therefore I don't see how you could have an apnea. If you drift off to sleep during the meditation you would go into an unconsciousness state which may trigger an apnea because it would mean you have fallen asleep and are no longer meditating. I meditate regulary but never lying down because that can make me drift into sleep, especially if I'm tired. Meditation is one of the best things we can do in life !

[/end quote]

What TrueBlue says would have been the mainstream understanding of meditation some good few years ago, and one that I would personally use.

However, over the past 30 - 40 years the term meditation has come to mean anything anybody wants it to mean, and unless the type of meditation is described, we cannot know what any particular author is talking about.

Shallow breathing, and even no breathing for some time, is common in meditation (as I know it). So in that altered state I guess it may be possible to have an apneic event or some kind of arousal.

I have had my throat close when completely awake, many times in the past, but it has never been described as an apnea, and both sleep doctors I have seen say that problem is not sleep apnea.

Anyhow, the main point of this post was to mention the possible stress that can be caused by affirmations that are against what we actually believe.

cheers

Mars

[tattooyu]

Thank you so much Mars! This is why I always like to get outside opinions! I am going to bring that up at my next therapy appointment. How do I get rid of the old, negative irrational beliefs and not just try to force new ones in there? I believe once I'm on the way with that process, the affirmations will more easily fill the void.

[Muse-Inc]

...How do I get rid of the old, negative irrational beliefs...

This is one method: first, understand what those beliefs are...fully, by destructuring each point by point. Then, analyse each & identify a root cause for each: a fear, someone else's belief (like a parent) you bought into, based on past experience. Determine if this is just a bad habit or some ingrained deepset part of your psyche, this can be tricky; the former can be changed by substituting a new behavior every time the old one occurs while the latter often requires some outside help to unearth and heal. Affirmations IMHO are conscious efforts to change thinking patterns; it requires much self-monitoring that many will not or cannot sustain long enough to replace the old with a new habit. I have healed several phobias and crippling fears this way so I know it can be done.

[tattooyu]

Thanks, Muse. I've got a LOT of hard work ahead of me, but it will be all worth it!

[BlackSpinner]

Thanks, Muse. I've got a LOT of hard work ahead of me, but it will be all worth it!

How ever.... Many therapists now believe that by changing your attitude first it will help when you deal with the underlying issues, if you want to do that. Also some doctors question the value of bringing old shit back to the surface and reliving it - It sure as hell doesn't make you feel better - some believe it might in fact make you worse be re-enforcing it.
There are lots of different therapies out there because there are lots of different people who respond in different ways.

[tattooyu]

Wow, all good points! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

I did see a show recently about reinforcing pathways in the brain. Perhaps it is better to let old habit/thinking patterns atrophy and die?

[mars]

How do I get rid of the old, negative irrational beliefs and not just try to force new ones in there?

Hi Tattooyu

This is just a quick reply.

1. Go see a Rational-Emotive Therapist, and work with him/her.
This would be the easiest way.

2. Google Rational-Emotive Therapy, learn and use all you can.

3. Google RET Self-Help Form, and get a copy. This will give you a structure with which to challenge your irrational beliefs.

4. Best book - "A Practitioners Guide to Rational-Emotive Therapy".

5. Next best book - "How To Stubbornly Refuse To Make Yourself Miserable About Anything, Yes, Anything". You may not agree with everything Albert Ellis has to say, but there is some good disputing guidelines in there. It also has a copy of the RET Self-Help Form.

6. Practice. Challenge your irrational beliefs, ask yourself for proof - what is the evidence - etc. You do not have to know the root cause of a belief in order to challenge it, minimise it, or get rid of the feeling and /or dysfunctional behaviour it causes. However, there are some deep-seated beliefs or feelings that RET can only minimize, and not completely get rid of, and here you might need Experiential Therapy or something similar.

7. Finally - consider this in regard to affirmations -

If you believe that your last President was the worst President the US has ever had - then make affirmations that he was the best President you ever had.
Or if you believe that your current President is the worst President you could have, then affirm that he is the best President you could have.
Repeat these affirmations as you would normally --
and see how far those affirmations get you, and how you feel about making them. The technical term is cognitive dissonance.

Feelings are caused by how we think and our beliefs. We can also have thoughts and beliefs about the feelings, which can further exacerbate the intensity of those feelings, and so on.

Good luck

Mars

[BlackSpinner]

A good way to figure out if an affirmation works for you is to write it out many times and listen to your thoughts when writing them. As you hear objections, modify you affirmation to answer those objects. You need to put those affirmations in your own words too, always in the positive always in the present tense. Affirmations speak to the toddler in you so the word NO is never heard.

I have dealt with a lot of issues this way, I can now call my self an artist for instance, I can (after repeating my affirmations) walk into a gallery and show my work I can sell it and ask money for my work - without apologizing. I used them to help with pain management. And with a lot of them I can go to the dentist.

[tattooyu]

Thanks everyone. I will read up more on REBT later. I am coming of a mediocre sleep night and can't totally absorb info that well today.

[Muse-Inc]

...let old habit/thinking patterns atrophy and die?

Unfortunately, they typically express in our lives as inexplicable reactions meaning they are continuously activated neural pathways which keeps them 'alive.' This is the unhonored shadow (the parts we push into our subconsciousness) in Jungian psychology terms. But, then again, this is only one way of dealing with these issues.

[timbalionguy]

From a mechanical standpoint, I should try 'hosing up' when I am relaxing/thinking/meditating upright. I know I experience OSA even sitting up.

Wasn't real camping this time, but I did do CPAP outside this last week, sleeping on a 'hammock' next to a friend's lion. Used a sleeping bag, which was hardly needed because of the nice warm night. Amazingly, the whole setup was quieter than I thought, and I heard all the nice natural sounds of her rural neighborhood (and her wolves howl, her lion roar and her cougar 'talk') without any problems whatsoever. The dark skies were nice as well, and I explored the heavens with binoculars before dozing off. My AHI was right around 7, which for me at this time, is right about where it should be. If the weather forecasters weren't yelling 'fall storm' so much, I would have done it for two nights. The storm finally came, but was two days late.

I have pictures of the hammock I will have to find and share.

But most importantly for this thread, I had plenty of time to relax and meditate, something I never get to do enough of. Doing it around lions and tigers for me makes the relaxation far more profound. One session in particular was the most relaxed I have felt in several years!

Unfortunately, four hours of being back to work have pretty much erased the benefits.....