Cheaper-pedic mattress

WAFlowers · Post by **WAFlowers** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:44 pm

I got talking with an acquaintance the other night and somehow we got onto the issues of sleep apnea (he thinks he has it, certainly has the classic set of symptoms and side-effects) and mattresses. He's recovering from a fractured spine and ended up building himself an inexpensive alternative to a Tempur-pedic for a fraction of the price. I asked for info and decided to share it.

OK, I've learned that there are at least 2 factors in picking foam (memory or otherwise) for a mattress: density and ILD. Density really doesn't have much to do with comfort; it has to do with how well the foam will wear. ILD is the measure of how much you'll sink into the foam (leading to comfort).

A density of 5 (as rock and roll has suggested here a number of times) equates to quality foam that should last 20 years, but you can get that in a number of ILD ratings.

To build a mattress like a Tempur-pedic, start with a foam base with a high ILD and build up in height as you do down in ILD. The top layer of "memory foam" should have an ILD of 10-13.

Another factor is how thick the top "comfort" layer is. For a stomach sleeper 2" over a less resiliant foam support layer might be right. A side sleeper should have 3" or (better) 4". A back sleeper doesn't really matter.

The firmness of the support layer below the memory foam has a significant impact on the overall firmness of the mattress.

A number of people have constructed mattresses using a polyurethane foam "topper" from JC Penney choosing either firm or extra firm (or layering firm on extra firm), then a layer of Sensus memory foam in the appropriate thickness (available from various sources including http://www.memoryfoam.com and on ebay). Optionally topping this with something like Quiltflex and covering it with an appropriate mattress cover.

The guy I was talking to put together a queen sized for $462.28 consisting of the JC Penny 5" firm topper as a support base, 3" of 5lb Sensus memory foam and 2" of Reflex Memory foam (softer than Sensus). He says it is actually more comfortable than what Tempur-pedic offers (for him, YMMV).

The primary difference to what Tempur-pedic offers from the above woudl appear to be the quality of the materials used for the base more than anything. For example, if I wanted to build a "no cost spared" custom king-sized mattress for side sleepers using only items from memoryfoam.com, it might look something like this:

2" Resilitex 32 ILD - $156.42
2" Reslitex 15 ILD - $149.50 (or another layer of 32ILD for firmer)
4" Sensus memory foam 13 ILD - $383.27
1" Quiltflex 8 ILD - $57.75
9" Intense cover - $184.80

Total: $931.74

Remember this is for a king-size; lower prices for smaller. This still sounds like a lot, but it should compare favorably to a Tempur-pedic that costs $2400!

Plus using JC Penny polyurethane for the core it would be $200 less, but then the core might need replacing in 10 years.

I suspect rock and roll might be know a lot more about this. When he lands somewhere maybe he can point out where I've gone wrong in what I've said. I'm sure I've made a few errors in what I've said, maybe due to simplification. But it sure sounds like it is worth investigation.

Sleepless on LI · Post by **Sleepless on LI** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:17 pm

http://cgi.ebay.com/Classic-CAL-KING-Te ... dZViewItem

Bill,
This is on eBay. a Tempur Pedic California King mattress for $1,390. It is being sold by someone with 100% positive feedback but only 9 sales, but that sounds pretty good to me. There are some incredible bargains you can get on these mattresses on eBay if you keep looking and know how to win an auction. It would save all the trouble of constructing a mattress for a few extra hundred and you would have a real warrantee with something like this, I'll bet.
Just another thought. I can't imagine my putting together a mattress, but I'm sure some of the craftier people on this site could do it.

WAFlowers · Post by **WAFlowers** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:36 pm

Actually each piece is warrentied, and there are cheaper sources and less expensive choices of materials. I just gave a high-ball example. Maybe in hindsite I should have shown a low-ball example. I'll try and do one later.

In fact, the pieces I described would be more equivilent to this other item from the same seller which is at $2290: http://cgi.ebay.com/CelebrityBed-by-Tem ... dZViewItem

That's a savings of over $1350! And with a bit of shopping around for less expensive sources (e.g. memory foam on ebay) I could probably shave another $200 off the price, increasing the savings further.

Compared with designing and building a cherry entertainment center (no particle board in this, anywhere!) or an oak rolltop desk, building a mattress is trivial!

morphy · Post by **morphy** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:39 am

Things may have changed over the past year or two but-
FWIW,
the last time I read the (to me) very deceptive Tempur-pedic brochure, the fine print explained that the full warranty on the foam was only 5 years and then pro-rated. I did some more checking and if memoy serves (?) most others foams are generally not fully warranted for the length of time it seems at first glance..
I developed the opinion that foam is not warranted for "normal wear and tear" which seemingly can begin in earnest after only 5 years. Those "warranties" need close scrutiny.
Just MVHO. YMMV!

Sleepless on LI · Post by **Sleepless on LI** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:16 am

Bill,

One other thought. Many years ago, when I got married, our first bed was bought at a sleep shop, not a major store, and we had a really hard time keeping the sheets on (no wisecracks, please, about newlyweds...). They made their own mattresses out of horse hair and other wonderful goodies and because it was made by their factory, the size was off. They even delivered us a new one, but we finally gave up because no sheets we bought were fitting this mattress.

We have always slept on a king sized mattress. I don't believe they have come up with a size large enough for me to sleep comfortably next to my husband. I am not one to have anyone touching me as I sleep (no, not a cuddle-up-to type of gal). I need my space and king is not even large enough for me. Do you know how many houses we had to turn down for sale when we would see the master bedroom and it wasn't large enough for our bed?

Does your friend have any problems with the sheets fitting his home-made mattress? I'd be curious. You really have to get the specs right to ensure the sheets stay on. It gets really annoying to wake up every morning and refit the sheets in addition to making the bed, but it's great on change the sheet days since they're already off.

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:25 am

LoRi,

Try getting sheets from Lands End (Dodgeville, WI)

...they have a website LandsEnd.com

Bill,

Why can't I (or maybe I can) just put a memoryfoam "topper" on my already good (and expensive) Mattress? I guess my question is, how is the built up mattress you specified different (better/worse) than doing what I described?

Sleepless on LI · Post by **Sleepless on LI** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:45 am

Wader,
Thanks for the link. Happy to say, we don't own that mattress anymore, haven't for a long time. But I am always looking for great sheets, and love Bed, Bath & Beyond's 400 thread count ones, the store's own brand. They are like sleeping on butter. We only paid $70, I believe, for a king sized set and they are durable and get softer and softer with each washing. I'll check out Land's End, too.

I, too, by the way, have a 3" good memory foam topper on our mattress bought from Overstock.com and we love it, made from the visco elastic, with a very high density. Not that I wouldn't love to own a Tempur Pedic mattress, but finances do not allow it. Just put one through college, have another one in it now and a younger daughter...nope, not a lot of spare change laying around for things that I want. If it was a necessity, I'd find a way. But right now, and I guess this is good and bad, it's not.

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:10 am

Hey Bill,

I have to say I love the "Cheaper-pedic" name. I got a big chuckle when I first read that.

Maybe you and R&R can team up and create you own brand. I would love to see "Cheaper-pedic" infomercials.

Sleepless on LI · Post by **Sleepless on LI** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:28 am

You know, Wading, if Bill and R&R had the time, that wouldn't be a bad idea! They could use R&R's knowledge of the foam and furniture and Bill's crafts ability and then sell them to people like ME on this site. I'd spring for it...Lab Rats, Inc. could be the corporate name and their product line could be "Cheaper-Pedic Mattresses." I think you may have something there.

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:37 am

With mikemoran to do their pr.
O.

Sleepless on LI · Post by **Sleepless on LI** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:16 pm

ozij wrote:With mikemoran to do their pr.
O.

Could you imagine??? Just like he did for the Nasal-Ear (LOL).

WAFlowers · Post by **WAFlowers** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:10 pm

Sleepless on LI wrote:Does your friend have any problems with the sheets fitting his home-made mattress? I'd be curious. You really have to get the specs right to ensure the sheets stay on. It gets really annoying to wake up every morning and refit the sheets in addition to making the bed, but it's great on change the sheet days since they're already off.

He bought special "deep pocket" sheets from some specialty shop somewhere.

WAFlowers · Post by **WAFlowers** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:14 pm

wading thru the muck! wrote:Why can't I (or maybe I can) just put a memoryfoam "topper" on my already good (and expensive) Mattress? I guess my question is, how is the built up mattress you specified different (better/worse) than doing what I described?

I've read that you can, but that memory foam (topper) is only as good as what is underneath it. And the best is a firm, supportive foam base.

But that is just what I've read. I don't know much more about it than you do.

morphy, different foams have different warrenties. The warrenty seems to be closely related to the density -- the denser it is the longer the warrentied life. You can get 3lb memory foam, but it appears to have a 5 year warrenty. If you spring for the better but a bit more expensive 5lb stuff, it looks to have a 20 year warrent.

As to making a foam mattress: stack up the foam and zip the cover on. Simple!

WAFlowers · Post by **WAFlowers** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:19 pm

wading thru the muck! wrote:I have to say I love the "Cheaper-pedic" name. I got a big chuckle when I first read that.

I can't take credit for the name. There is a long (42 page! ) thread on building cheaper-pedic mattresses on a http://www.fatwallet.com that I was pointed to when I asked about all this. My friend (? actually just an acquaintence so far -- fellow Miata enthusiast) started posting on about page 7 as Hotstuff2 (I think that was his ID).

Maybe you and R&R can team up and create you own brand. I would love to see "Cheaper-pedic" infomercials.

But then we'd have to charge as much as Tempur-pedic. Where do you think all the expense is for them? They aren't selling mattresses; they are selling a lifestyle and that costs $$$.

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:46 pm

Topping for R&R

Cheaper-pedic mattress

Cheaper-pedic mattress

Re:"real" warranties