O/T- Michael Vick and the Philadelphia Beagles

[midnightdweary]

Thanks Muffy,

I don't think some of you know the full story.
DON'T LISTEN TO THIS (if you cry easily)
It was on NPR Fresh Air. Very revealing.
Also depraved, sickening, disgusting, cruelty of the worst kind.
How can anyone hang out a dog who has lost a fight, and bleeding on a wire line,
stick a rod up his rear end, send volts of electricity into him, and leave him there for hours while he dies a slow death?

http://odeo.com/episodes/25181130-NPR-0 ... -Fresh-Air

[KSMike]

My best friend's brother is a civilian contractor, and head of food service, at Leavenworth Penitentiary. Vick had to work for him in the kitchen every day, and he was given the most menial, demeaning tasks possible, and a lot of them, during his "stay."

[Jason S.]

First of all, let me say I love animals, have two dogs, don't care for Michael Vick, and hate the Philadelphia Eagles (Redskin fan here). What he did was abhorrent.

OK, now lets get real. The man has paid his debt to society. He has shown contrition. The truth is his sentence was more severe due to his celebrity status and media attention on the case. If Joe Dogabuser is convicted of the same crime, he isn't doing anywhere near 18 months in prison. The truth of the matter is Vick did more time in prison that most people who commit violent crimes against people. So I think he at least deserves the chance to show if he has turned his life around and changed his ways.

[Pugsy]

First of all, let me say I love animals, have two dogs, don't care for Michael Vick, and hate the Philadelphia Eagles (Redskin fan here). What he did was abhorrent.

OK, now lets get real. The man has paid his debt to society. He has shown contrition. The truth is his sentence was more severe due to his celebrity status and media attention on the case. If Joe Dogabuser is convicted of the same crime, he isn't doing anywhere near 18 months in prison. The truth of the matter is Vick did more time in prison that most people who commit violent crimes against people. So I think he at least deserves the chance to show if he has turned his life around and changed his ways.

My head hears you Jason. My heart and my stomach can't get past what he did. While sometimes my "head" will win out over my heart but I just can't see it happening here.

[Muffy]

(Vick) entered to a semi-standing ovation for the second play from scrimmage, was split wide as receiver and came around for a fake reverse.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/recap;_ylt= ... 0090927021

And if he had actually done something, he'd be mayor of Philadelphia this morning.

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2009 ... ?ref=yahoo

...all will be forgiven by Week 4.

Give or take.

Muffy

[Agape=Love]

Colossians 3:13 (New International Version)
13Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.

Luke 6 (New International Version)
37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

John 8:3-11 (New International Version)
3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

Agape

[roster]

.......... At least one ancient culture detested dogs. That was one of the peculiar characteristics of ancient Hebrew culture in both the Old and New Testaments. But many modern Jews are quite fond of their dogs. In ancient Judah and Israel, dogs were wild inhabitants of the streets. Hiding by day, they roamed in the open at night, running through the streets of every town seeking food and howling to one another. Although not admired, they were tolerated as scavengers.

This lack of admiration, or even understanding for dogs is quite evident in the bible. The scriptures contain a total of 41 references to dogs. Not one is favorable to dogs at all in any way. (Cats are not even mentioned in the bible, and I like that!)

When the Old Testament lists animals that the Jews must not eat because they are unclean, it does not specifically mention dogs. But we are included among the unclean animals as follows: "And whatsoever goeth upon his paws, among all manner of beasts that go on all four, those are unclean unto you: whoso toucheth their carcase shall be unclean until the even" (Leviticus 11:27). Of course, I am glad the Jews were forbidden to eat my kind, but I resent being called unclean. We dogs are much cleaner than cows, sheep, or goats.

The ultimate sign of disrespect was to allow a dead body to lie out at night and be eaten by dogs. "And the dogs shall eat Jezebel . . . and there shall be none to bury her." These were the words of the prophet Elisha in II Kings 9:10. To see what contempt the bible god had for dogs, read Deuteronomy 23:18: "Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the Lord thy God for any vow: for even both of these are abomination unto the Lord thy God."

Not only did this incompetent god detest dogs, he also completely misunderstood them. "As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly" (Proverbs 26:11). This proverb of the Old Testament is repeated in the second epistle of Peter 2:22. Anyone who knows anything about dogs knows they can easily regurgitate their food. A puppy will lick you in the face, as he would do to an older dog. That is a signal for the older dog to regurgitate some food for the puppy. A poor dog that is not well fed will gorge himself when food is available, then regurgitate and hide some of it to eat later. That makes sense.

How strange, then, that the bible says the clean animals are those that have cloven hooves and "cheweth the cud." (Leviticus 11:3). What this god did not know is that the cud is food the animal has previously eaten. It is regurgitated and chewed as a step in the process of digestion. All of the so-called clean animals do this, including cows, sheep, and goats. Understand that I have nothing personal against cows, sheep, or goats. However, those animals are so stupid that many dogs are employed just to herd them around. Someone who herds sheep is called a pastor. I understand that some humans also have to be herded by a pastor who fleeces them whenever possible.

The most disturbing of the dog references in the bible are those in which humans are called "dogs" as a term of contempt or scorn, and also those in which a person humbles himself by calling himself a dead dog. "His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, . . . Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough . . ." (Isaiah 56: 10-11). "What is thy servant, that thou shouldest look upon such a dead dog as I am?" (II Samuel 9:8).

The New Testament references to people as dogs are even more outrageous. The Apostle Paul wrote in Philippians 3:2: "Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers . . ." Revelation 22:14-15 includes dogs among the wicked to be kept out of heaven: "For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers . . ." So what? What thinking mortal would want to be near a god who would throw any sentient creature into flames for eternal torment?

Jesus freely refers to people he doesn't like as dogs, as well as referring to them as swine and as vipers. In the Sermon on the Mount he does this by saying: "Give not that which is holy unto dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine. . ." (Matthew 7:6).

Most disgusting of all is his conversation with the Syrophenician woman who came to him pleading for him to heal her daughter. He said to her, "It is not meet to take the children's bread and to cast it to dogs." (Matthew 15:26). He was, in effect, calling her little daughter a dog right to the mother's face. This cruel and immoral pronouncement is repeated, with only slightly softer wording, in Mark 7:27. There is no rational way for a thoughtful person to read these wicked words and think of Jesus as a moral teacher.

Before ending this little doggie essay, I must note that someone might object to the statement that the bible is entirely negative about dogs because of Proverbs 30:29-31. That passage starts, "There are three things which go well, yea four are comely in going." The next two verses tell of those four things whose gait the writer admires. One of them is a greyhound, according to the King James and also in the revised versions. Along with other doggie scholars, I disagree with this translation of the ancient Hebrew which is zar-zir-mathnaim. This literally means "one who is slender in the loins" or "one who has his loins girded." This almost certainly refers to trained human runners who ran ahead of the chariots of kings. These runners were selected for endurance and speed, and they did have their slender loins girded. The greyhounds are wonderful dogs, but actually the bible does not compliment even them.

I don't understand how any human can think that a book which doesn't like dogs is sacred.

http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/2006/janfeb/truett.php

[Jason S.]

(Vick) entered to a semi-standing ovation for the second play from scrimmage, was split wide as receiver and came around for a fake reverse.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/recap;_ylt= ... 0090927021

And if he had actually done something, he'd be mayor of Philadelphia this morning.

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2009 ... ?ref=yahoo

...all will be forgiven by Week 4.

Give or take.

Muffy

You seem to be blaming the city of Philadelphia for Vick's return to the headlines. Do you think they are the only NFL team that would sign him? What punishment for Vick (prison and employment) do you think is justified?

[Muffy]

"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

Yeah, but Jesus was a lock-down cover corner if there ever was one, so he could get away with that.

Muffy

[roster]

By golly, you are right.

[Muffy]

Another Little Known Football Fact:

Jesus ran the first successful "Hail Mary" play for a TD.

Muffy

[midnightdweary]

I would like to answer a couple of posts:

These are a few ideas that were clearly expounded upon by Arch Stanton in his book Animals in Heaven (published in the summer of '06)

Rev 4:11…O Lord…..thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. (KJV)

Animals were here from the very first, have always been and will always continue to be here. God is still pleased with His creation and will always love the things He created, because He never changes. And He is still the same God who will be with us in heaven. Will the animals we love also be there with us? Absolutely, without any doubt. Why? Because how could an unchanging God love them now, and suddenly, upon entering heaven, we should find that which he loves and created is missing? It wouldn’t make sense. There will be a judgment day for people, because He made us with souls and also made us in His image, even though we rebelled against Him. That is not true with animals. They have never sinned against God as we have. It boggles the mind to behold the variety and beauty of the universe, and such diversity! What an amazing creation! There is no accountability among the animal kingdom as there is for us humans, for not all humans will enter heaven, but that is not the case for animals. I take joy in the fact that all my animals (dogs, cats, birds, fish), which have all been my companions through this life over the years will all be there (otherwise, for me, there would be sadness in heaven – an impossibility)

As far as Vick is concerned, that is between himself and his Creator. He has paid his debt to society.
He should be more worried about the sin wrought upon the created beings that God looks upon with favor.
There is a right way and a wrong way to treat our animal friends. He certainly crossed the line.

[Muffy]

So despite all that he’s done and all that he’s cost so many, thousands of Falcon fans wanted to treat his return to the Georgia Dome like the time the Red Sox golf-carted Ted Williams around Fenway one last time. This was the NFL’s version of the return of the prodigal son.

“We still love him and we support him through the good times and the down times,” said fan Cortez Jones of Atlanta, standing pregame in the courtyard outside the Dome. “We don’t condone the killing of those animals, but it’s time to forgive.”

Up and down the pregame tailgates was a sea of Vick jerseys. From the lots near the railroad to the parking garages on the side, fans were there to remind Michael Vick that they supported him. Some came just for this game. Others were long-time season-ticket holders.

They stood among the smokers and beer coolers in their black and red No. 7 jerseys. They had to dust them off a back shelf in the closet since Vick hasn’t played in Atlanta since 2006, and it was amazing how many fans had kept them at all.

For One Day, Vick Again Belonged To Atlanta

Muffy

[Muffy]

I see Vick with 150-180 yards and 2 TDs a game, and all will be forgiven by Week 4.

BTW, in limited action (2.5 plays/game), he scores a TD on a average of once every 15 times he touches the ball.

If they listened to me back at the beginning of the season, the two undefeated teams would be Indianapolis and Philadelphia (Philly would have beaten the Saints, that's why there wouldn't be 3).

Muffy

[Muffy]

And if you take yesterday's TD/Play Ratio (6 plays, 2 touchdowns), and he had been playing regularly, then given the average amount of plays per game for a Feature Back, he'd have 120 touchdowns by now.

Muffy