O.T.: Will We Ever Have Health Police?

[Muse-Inc]

I miss Jan too

[WearyOne]

Just for those Americans who believe that the Canadian health system is a nightmare and that Canadians are not happy with it. The latest poll on that subject (yesterday) shows that Quebec population has a 88% level of satisfaction and the global score for Canada is 86% (Nanos Research)...

Any chance that 86% is the ones who are healthy and the 14% is the ones who have health problems?

Just for fun...

Who took the poll?
How scientific was it?
Was the poll evenly divided between the different economic and social groups throughout Canada?
How...

Oh, never mind, in his meeting in Guadalajara recently, Obama says the government-run Canadian healthcare system won't work for us anyway, so...

[apnez]

Nanos Reasearch (http://www.nanosresearch.com) is one of the major opinion research company in Canada. This is a serious company with a very good reputation. The survey (made for the Canadian public health Association they are having a convention) may not be yet on their site but it should be soon with methodology etc... This is not surprising at all it is only another confirmation of what everybody knows here. Sats Can figures show, since many years, +- 85% of satisfaction.

No doubt that the Canadian health system would be a shock to Americans. The system is universal (it covers everyone) and not related to the employer or emplyment. That is a BIG difference.

The system is publicly managed and founded (there are no individual contributions, partial fee for service, deterrent fees etc... ). We got rid of all the Insurance companies as far as the public system is concerned, eliminating their profits and their huge red tape. Our administrative costs are extremely low : less than 5% of the system compared to +-40% in USA (including profits and admin costs). That would be a revolution in USA!

It is transferable. That means that wherever you are you are covered.

It is comprehensive as it covers hospitalization, medical services, diagnostic services, outpatients and clinic services etc... There is a basic basket of services for all Canadians and some provinces covers additional services like pharmacy in Quebec, dental care for children etc...

The universality of the system and the public administration are the two key elements that make the system much simpler to administrate and greatly reduce the costs. Obama's proposal do not change anything greatly as far as the administration of the American system but he will NEVER be able to control the costs until this is radically changed. That means that you are spending and loosing about 5% of your GNP just for the purpose of maintaining a Babel Tower involving thousands of Insurance companies and offices with unbelievable red tape and huge profits. More than that, Obama's proposal will extend the responsibilities of the Insurance companies! But he has to start somewhere and this will be a non ending discussion for many years ahead as you will have to make more and more changes in the future. It's a multi stage operation. This is just the beginning. But there is no way you could do the job in one shot.

[SaltLakeJan]

Well, I already miss reading Jan's posts. No two ways about it...{/quote]

[color=#004080 I missed posting. I had an empty spot in my life without the forum][/color]

Most importantly, if Jan refrains from posting then she can't help with my upcoming thread:
"Should the U.S. Pick an Official Religion and Formally Impose It?]

(My lead-in comment: Oh!! What a REALLY good idea! )

What . . . and miss out on being at the epi-center when the Worlds collide over this one

And you thought this thread was controversial...

Religion, controversial? SWS since when?

Please come back to help with my upcoming thread, Jan! Thanks in advance!

I'm ready, let's go! Jan

[WearyOne]

Apnez, I was really just joking about the who, what, when, where of the polls. Some are good, some are bad, some are skewed, some reliable, some not, and so on, at least the ones here. I've read enough of OUR bill, at least the current one, to know I don't like it, too much government intervention. They haven't proven with any past or present social programs that they can make one work RIGHT. I don't even have to look at any other country's government-run healthcare system, just looking at our bill and our government's past poor performance with social programs is enough because none of them work RIGHT.

[WearyOne]

Hi, Jan! Glad to see you back!!

[SaltLakeJan]

This morning Muffy wrote:

The only reason people use words like "egregious" is to look cool! Otherwise, instead of saying "egregious to the forum and its members", they would simply say, "Boy, was that FS!"

Muffy, since you have visited Eutah, I thought you might know "egregious" is a $10.00 word, used in important situations

I believe the penalty for saying something FS (and what is "FS" is relative) is not "not posting", it's "more posting". Since this is clearly the mature thing to do, I am not only going to "not post" till you return. I'm going to hold my breath until you do.

In our household, we have a difference of opinion about the meaning of FS. While I was "not posting" DH suggested since I wasn't spending hours checking out the forum, I could start cooking wonderful dinners for him again. He kindly offered to introduce me to the Stove & the Frig. Dah! I had to explain that FS meant I was doing my usual thing --- finding an interesting topic, studying it. If I decide it has value, I speak out 'bout it in the free way we have in the USA..

OK, wait on the breath thing, just so you know, I've got a great post ready, it's really going to help somebody, so you better post soon.OK, starting now.OK, one more thing, it has to do with algorithm stuff, so it's going to be really exciting! OK, starting now for sure.mmfffl

Muffy, breathe, please breathe, I want to read your exciting post. I know they can be exciting becuz' one changed something I didn't think could be changed. I'm waiting. Jan

[robertmarilyn]

JAN'S BACK!!!!!!!

[jdm2857]

JAN'S BACK!!!!!!!

... from her fishing trip with what's her name, the newly-resigned governor of Alaska?

[PST]

I don't even have to look at any other country's government-run healthcare system, just looking at our bill and our government's past poor performance with social programs is enough because none of them work RIGHT.

Medicare works well. My friends and relatives over 65 like it. I look forward to becoming eligible. Even those of us with good employer-provided insurance may be a job loss or business failure away from being uninsured and effectively uninsurable due to a pre-existing condition. That suspense will end at age 65. WearyOne, can you honestly say you would abolish Medicare because it doesn't work RIGHT? If so, you are the only person I know who would.

[WearyOne]

I don't even have to look at any other country's government-run healthcare system, just looking at our bill and our government's past poor performance with social programs is enough because none of them work RIGHT.

Medicare works well. My friends and relatives over 65 like it. I look forward to becoming eligible. Even those of us with good employer-provided insurance may be a job loss or business failure away from being uninsured and effectively uninsurable due to a pre-existing condition. That suspense will end at age 65. WearyOne, can you honestly say you would abolish Medicare because it doesn't work RIGHT? If so, you are the only person I know who would.

I never said anything about abolishing anything at all, I don't believe. But it makes no sense for this government to START something NEW (especially after you read the current version ), when they haven't proven they can handle it RIGHT by past programs!! I have friends on Medicare as well, and they would beg to differ with it being run RIGHT, but they have no other choice. (BTW, I'm close to being one of those without employer-provided insurance due to my husband's impending job loss.) Having to deal with the problems created by and the money drained from us due to the government's current inept handing of programs is not the same as being against them creating more problems by starting government-run healthcare.

[SaltLakeJan]

Our Senators and Representatives are in the news constantly, and they are mostly talking about proposed Health Care Reform plans. Some are in favor of reform, some are against it. We all hear comments that if Congress is proposing a reform of our Health Care, that it is only fair if our Senators and Representatives get the same plan they want us to have. It is a part of their closely guarded benefit package And, since the Federal Government employees around 2,700,000 people, (all with the option of having H.I.), it seems reasonable to include them, as well as other special interest groups and unions.

The Fed. pays slightly more than 70% of the total health insurance premium for 1.6 million Federal Civilian Employees.(CPSC Human Resources page 6) A couple of Federal Agencies pay even less for their H.I. The Post Office has approximately 800,000 employees; Federal Deposit Ins. Co has 6,000 people working for them. These two agencies only pay 15% of their total premium. A regular Federal worker in GEHA fee-for-service pays $580.00 for self only coverage. However the P.O. and FDIC pay only $260.00 for the same coverage. (Federalnewsradio.com.Health Premium Discounts 12-6-2006)

The Fed obtains the funds for wages and operations from the taxes we pay. Does this mean the tax-paying citizens are paying for their Public Servants Health Insurance ?

Government Employees may be the hardest working people in the nation, but if Health Ins. changes are proposed, is there a reason why we shouldn't include everyone? Do they deserve the perks - maybe, but life has changed for all of us. Perhaps it will for them too.

Before you math wizards try to make sense out of the formula and the splits, remember Congress wrote the rules. making it virtually impossible for most mere mortals to figure how it works

Jan

[TSSleepy]

Hmm, I read the July 19th version on the House's health reform bill. Sure, it was 1017 pages...but there's only 24 lines/page and not many words. And a lot of it is just definitions...

I liked most of what I read. Of course, I didn't read anything about health police, death panels, euthanasia, healthcare rationing, or any of the rest of the hullaballoo that a lot of the media is going-off about. Maybe that's in a different version.

[KSMike]

I think you'd have a very hard time finding anyone who doesn't believe serious reforms aren't needed or desirable. But there's a big difference between the kinds of reforms that would fix the major problems without infringing on the basic liberties we enjoy in America, and the direction the current U.S. administration would like us to follow. Being against Obamacare (in any of it's current forms) does not necessarily mean that one is for the continuation of the current system.

Putting the government in charge of every aspect of my life - and make no mistake, that IS what we're talking about here - has to be stopped at any and all cost.

[DreamStalker]

I think you'd have a very hard time finding anyone who doesn't believe serious reforms aren't needed or desirable. But there's a big difference between the kinds of reforms that would fix the major problems without infringing on the basic liberties we enjoy in America, and the direction the current U.S. administration would like us to follow. Being against Obamacare (in any of it's current forms) does not necessarily mean that one is for the continuation of the current system.

Putting the government in charge of every aspect of my life - and make no mistake, that IS what we're talking about here - has to be stopped at any and all cost.

The government is already in charge of every aspect of your life. Read the patriot act.

We are already practicing socialism .... haven't you ever driven on a US or Interstate highway before? ... haven't you ever eaten a corn based product before?

You people are scaring yourselves into a frenzy ... relax.

Our Senators and Representatives are in the news constantly, and they are mostly talking about proposed Health Care Reform plans. Some are in favor of reform, some are against it. We all hear comments that if Congress is proposing a reform of our Health Care, that it is only fair if our Senators and Representatives get the same plan they want us to have. It is a part of their closely guarded benefit package And, since the Federal Government employees around 2,700,000 people, (all with the option of having H.I.), it seems reasonable to include them, as well as other special interest groups and unions.

The Fed. pays slightly more than 70% of the total health insurance premium for 1.6 million Federal Civilian Employees.(CPSC Human Resources page 6) A couple of Federal Agencies pay even less for their H.I. The Post Office has approximately 800,000 employees; Federal Deposit Ins. Co has 6,000 people working for them. These two agencies only pay 15% of their total premium. A regular Federal worker in GEHA fee-for-service pays $580.00 for self only coverage. However the P.O. and FDIC pay only $260.00 for the same coverage. (Federalnewsradio.com.Health Premium Discounts 12-6-2006)

The Fed obtains the funds for wages and operations from the taxes we pay. Does this mean the tax-paying citizens are paying for their Public Servants Health Insurance ?

Government Employees may be the hardest working people in the nation, but if Health Ins. changes are proposed, is there a reason why we shouldn't include everyone? Do they deserve the perks - maybe, but life has changed for all of us. Perhaps it will for them too.

Before you math wizards try to make sense out of the formula and the splits, remember Congress wrote the rules. making it virtually impossible for most mere mortals to figure how it works

Jan

OMG ... that means our taxes are paying their salaries too!

Please list one country that you would be willing to live in where the citizens do not pay taxes ... well?