Testing an Oxygen Concentrator

[Hoze-Zay]

Still googling but nothing so far.

Anyway how do they test them and are they very efficient?

[Slinky]

Energy efficient? I don't know, they do make a difference in your electric bill. Enough so that many electric power companies allow a special rate for those using 02 concentrators (life saving equipment). The 02 output is actually tested w/a manometer. My local supplier actually routinely tests my concentrator's output every 6 months. The concentrator has a "counter" on it to record hours of use. The concentrator is considerably less expensive than a bunch of large 02 tanks over the course of a month.

[Hoze-Zay]

Energy efficient? I don't know, they do make a difference in your electric bill. Enough so that many electric power companies allow a special rate for those using 02 concentrators (life saving equipment). The 02 output is actually tested w/a manometer. My local supplier actually routinely tests my concentrator's output every 6 months. The concentrator has a "counter" on it to record hours of use. The concentrator is considerably less expensive than a bunch of large 02 tanks over the course of a month.

I am so sorry I was up late watching the UFC fight. By efficency I was meaning, if it says it is putting out 2LPM is it really doing that. Thanks for any further info.

[BleepingBeauty]

Energy efficient? I don't know, they do make a difference in your electric bill. Enough so that many electric power companies allow a special rate for those using 02 concentrators (life saving equipment). The 02 output is actually tested w/a manometer. My local supplier actually routinely tests my concentrator's output every 6 months. The concentrator has a "counter" on it to record hours of use. The concentrator is considerably less expensive than a bunch of large 02 tanks over the course of a month.

I got an O2 concentrator about ten days ago, and I haven't seen my electric bill yet. I repeated the overnight oximetry last night and will get the report tomorrow. If the doc deems that the concentrator is making a positive difference and I'm going to continue using it, I'll call my electric company and see if that special rate applies. Thanks for that info, Slinky.

BTW, the DME told me that the large O2 tanks are only good for about 4 hours of use. And FWIW, they also said they'd come to my house occasionally to test the concentrator.

[Hoze-Zay]

Okay, this is what I really want to ask. How do I know that the amount of gas that the machine is putting out is the same percent of Oxygen that I would get from the tank/bottle?

[Slinky]

There is a guage on it that indicates the amount of 02 being released. They can check the accuracy of the guage and output w/a manometer. I've used only DeVilBiss 3L and 5L concentrators. The 3L is smaller and fits better in my car when I travel and is less expensive for my local supplier than if they have to contact a supplier local at my destination to provide one on my arrival but they will also make that provision if for some reason I can't take the smaller concentrator. At home I have the 5L size concentrator. But it is set to deliver 2L of 02 which is all I need and am scripted.

[Hoze-Zay]

There is a guage on it that indicates the amount of 02 being released. They can check the accuracy of the guage and output w/a manometer. I've used only DeVilBiss 3L and 5L concentrators. The 3L is smaller and fits better in my car when I travel and is less expensive for my local supplier than if they have to contact a supplier local at my destination to provide one on my arrival but they will also make that provision if for some reason I can't take the smaller concentrator. At home I have the 5L size concentrator. But it is set to deliver 2L of 02 which is all I need and am scripted.

Thanks, if I had gotten a manual with it I wouldn't be asking these silly questions.

[Slinky]

There is nothing silly about your questions. Usually these concentrators are a "life time" rental so manuals are not provided. There are some recent Medicare changes in the works so what the final outcome regarding "rental", "capped rental" and ownership of these concentrators ends up being is still up in the air.

[BleepingBeauty]

Usually these concentrators are a "life time" rental so manuals are not provided. There are some recent Medicare changes in the works so what the final outcome regarding "rental", "capped rental" and ownership of these concentrators ends up being is still up in the air.

I'm hoping to move out of state if/when I can sell my house here in Arizona, which will mean that I'll lose my insurance. I understand my SDB won't be covered for about a year under any new insurance I obtain, as it's a pre-existing condition. If it turns out that continuing supplemental O2 is necessary for me (I've had the concentrator for about ten days now and will have a better idea about that later this week), is it a given that I'll be SOL re: getting a concentrator from a DME elsewhere and will have to purchase one outright? Or will that likely depend on the potential Medicare changes you mention?

TIA, Slinky. I'm just trying to get a handle on what I might be in for down the road (literally and figuratively).

[Goofproof]

Testing for what and why? They are machines that serve a set function, you plug them in and they do a set function, provide enriched O2 flow. On the better ones a flow gauge is built in, you set the flow to what you need and it does it. As far as quality of the O2, The machine is in charge by design, it doesn't have a means for you as a user to modify or play with it.

All that's required by you is provide it electric, keep it in a clean enviroment, put up with noise and added room heat from running a machine. It does have filters that are changed by your provider. (Maybe) Pretty long life.

Some of the high end units can recharge O2 bottles. If you have to be on O2 you have more important worries than who the Oxygen Concentrator works on the inside, They pump air, separate the O2 from it and feed it to you at the volume you adjust it for. Jim

[Goofproof]

Okay, this is what I really want to ask. How do I know that the amount of gas that the machine is putting out is the same percent of Oxygen that I would get from the tank/bottle?

You don't, you don't know what you are getting from the tank either, some times in life we have to count on what others stand for (Quality and Honest Dealings)

You could set up a lab and analyze the output ever five minutes, and then breath it, but it's not very cost effective, and would be time consuming. Not something that someone that needed the O2 to live would want to do. Jim

[Hoze-Zay]

Okay, this is what I really want to ask. How do I know that the amount of gas that the machine is putting out is the same percent of Oxygen that I would get from the tank/bottle?

You don't, you don't know what you are getting from the tank either, some times in life we have to count on what others stand for (Quality and Honest Dealings)

You could set up a lab and analyze the output ever five minutes, and then breath it, but it's not very cost effective, and would be time consuming. Not something that someone that needed the O2 to live would want to do. Jim

I don't like the way you answer in a condescending manor. Please stay off my posts in the future and I will stay off of yours.

[mattman]

Oxygen Concentrators are pretty simple devices and as already mentioned, due to this there is little user maitenance or testing required.

In a nutshell, all a concentrator does is suck in air, filter out the nitrogen, compress what's left and send it out the front. For the most part, anything that would actually fail in the unit will both be blisteringly obvious as well as set off the internal alarm.

Your DME company will come out every so often and test the machine anyways. Depending on what your insurance company dicatates (if anything) as well as any state or local regulations or Accredidation requirements it can be anywhere from every month to 6 months to a year. Sometimes not at all but most companies will at least do it every 6 months. Checking them involves a manometer to check liter flow (Usually with a liter flow pen), an oxygen analyzer to measure the O2 at the output and sometimes a pressure guage to check the pressure but that may not be needed depending on the manufacturer's guidelines.

Most insurance companies will do a lifetime rental on concentrators simply because there it is something that will be needed forever and therefore - it will eventually fail. It's far cheaper to keep ownership with the provider so that the disposables are provided at no charge as well as the cost burden off the patient to replace the unit. Not too mention that most O2 patients will need a portable at some point and if it's a rental then tanks are included with the cost. If the patient owned the equipment they would be responsible for replacing supplies for that as well.

An important thing to remember about items like this is that while it's considered a "lifetime" rental, the provider still only gets paid the first 12 months (give or take a month or two depending on the insurance) just as if the item was being purchased outright. The difference is that the lifetime cost of repair/replace remains with the provider rather than transfering to the patient.

About the only regular upkeep a concentrator needs is to have the filters cleaned. They generally don't really need to be replaced ever although there could be a few units out there that still have a filter that needs to be replaced. Just wash and air dry the filter and pop it back in. Change the humidifer every month or three (And cannulas every 2-4 weeks) and you're good to go. Usually if anything is going to fail it will be something to do with the compressor which wouldn't be user repairable so leave that to your provider. Occasionally it will be things like a solenoid or switch which still isn't user fixable either but I'd say 80% of concentrator failures are compressor related. And trust me, you'll almost always know about them since they usually make a HELL of a lot of noise!

Also, for what it's worth regarding tanks. There are 3 main types of portable tanks. M6/M9 tanks which are really small portable tanks and are used with Oxygen Conserving Devices. How long these last depends on the type of OCD and your liter flow (Usually 2-3 hours on 2lpm). Then there are E tanks which go in the little rollaround cart type portable. Again assuming 2lpm you can get about 3-4 hours out of a tank. The last type of tank is used exclusively as a backup tank in the home. They are H, J or M tanks and are the type you see on the backs of trucks with welding rigs on them. They are big and heavy. The nice part is they can last for 2-3 DAYS on 2lpm. Great for power outages. Not all providers use them but if you are on home O2 and don't have one, I'd suggest asking if yours does. The first time you have a serious power failure you will be greatful. Plus it's also just nice if your concentrator fails in the middle of the night. Just unplug the thing, shut it off, hook up to the backup tank and go back to sleep. Worry about the concentrator in the morning.

FYI - Oxygen Contrators will have slightly less pressure and slightly (by a couple percentage points) lower O2 purity than tanks. Tanks are always under a LOT more pressure and for medical use are specced at 99.99% pure. The increased pressure is why sometimes people feel like they are getting "more" oxygen out of a tank than out of a concentrator. 2 liters is still 2 liters though!

mattman

[Hoze-Zay]

Oxygen Concentrators are pretty simple devices and as already mentioned, due to this there is little user maitenance or testing required.

In a nutshell, all a concentrator does is suck in air, filter out the nitrogen, compress what's left and send it out the front. For the most part, anything that would actually fail in the unit will both be blisteringly obvious as well as set off the internal alarm.
Your DME company will come out every so often and test the machine anyways. Depending on what your insurance company dicatates (if anything) as well as any state or local regulations or Accredidation requirements it can be anywhere from every month to 6 months to a year. Sometimes not at all but most companies will at least do it every 6 months. Checking them involves a manometer to check liter flow (Usually with a liter flow pen), an oxygen analyzer to measure the O2 at the output and sometimes a pressure guage to check the pressure but that may not be needed depending on the manufacturer's guidelines.
Most insurance companies will do a lifetime rental on concentrators simply because there it is something that will be needed forever and therefore - it will eventually fail. It's far cheaper to keep ownership with the provider so that the disposables are provided at no charge as well as the cost burden off the patient to replace the unit. Not too mention that most O2 patients will need a portable at some point and if it's a rental then tanks are included with the cost. If the patient owned the equipment they would be responsible for replacing supplies for that as well.
An important thing to remember about items like this is that while it's considered a "lifetime" rental, the provider still only gets paid the first 12 months (give or take a month or two depending on the insurance) just as if the item was being purchased outright. The difference is that the lifetime cost of repair/replace remains with the provider rather than transfering to the patient.
About the only regular upkeep a concentrator needs is to have the filters cleaned. They generally don't really need to be replaced ever although there could be a few units out there that still have a filter that needs to be replaced. Just wash and air dry the filter and pop it back in. Change the humidifer every month or three (And cannulas every 2-4 weeks) and you're good to go. Usually if anything is going to fail it will be something to do with the compressor which wouldn't be user repairable so leave that to your provider. Occasionally it will be things like a solenoid or switch which still isn't user fixable either but I'd say 80% of concentrator failures are compressor related. And trust me, you'll almost always know about them since they usually make a HELL of a lot of noise!
Also, for what it's worth regarding tanks. There are 3 main types of portable tanks. M6/M9 tanks which are really small portable tanks and are used with Oxygen Conserving Devices. How long these last depends on the type of OCD and your liter flow (Usually 2-3 hours on 2lpm). Then there are E tanks which go in the little rollaround cart type portable. Again assuming 2lpm you can get about 3-4 hours out of a tank. The last type of tank is used exclusively as a backup tank in the home. They are H, J or M tanks and are the type you see on the backs of trucks with welding rigs on them. They are big and heavy. The nice part is they can last for 2-3 DAYS on 2lpm. Great for power outages. Not all providers use them but if you are on home O2 and don't have one, I'd suggest asking if yours does. The first time you have a serious power failure you will be greatful. Plus it's also just nice if your concentrator fails in the middle of the night. Just unplug the thing, shut it off, hook up to the backup tank and go back to sleep. Worry about the concentrator in the morning.
FYI - Oxygen Contrators will have slightly less pressure and slightly (by a couple percentage points) lower O2 purity than tanks. Tanks are always under a LOT more pressure and for medical use are specced at 99.99% pure. The increased pressure is why sometimes people feel like they are getting "more" oxygen out of a tank than out of a concentrator. 2 liters is still 2 liters though!
mattman

Thank you sir!

[karessamom]

Usually these concentrators are a "life time" rental so manuals are not provided. There are some recent Medicare changes in the works so what the final outcome regarding "rental", "capped rental" and ownership of these concentrators ends up being is still up in the air.

I'm hoping to move out of state if/when I can sell my house here in Arizona, which will mean that I'll lose my insurance. I understand my SDB won't be covered for about a year under any new insurance I obtain, as it's a pre-existing condition. If it turns out that continuing supplemental O2 is necessary for me (I've had the concentrator for about ten days now and will have a better idea about that later this week), is it a given that I'll be SOL re: getting a concentrator from a DME elsewhere and will have to purchase one outright? Or will that likely depend on the potential Medicare changes you mention?

TIA, Slinky. I'm just trying to get a handle on what I might be in for down the road (literally and figuratively).

BB What type of insurance do you have?? through your work?? if so you might check out COBRA--it's alot more expensive to be on BUT if you can afford it you can maintain your insurance until you get insurance thru a new employer thus will still be covered. It's only if the insurance lapses that the preexisting conditions will be excluded. I don't know about medicaid or medicare though if that's what you have.