Had UPPP, Do I Have To Get A New Doc, To Get Help With This?

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BleepingBeauty
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Re: Had UPPP, Do I Have To Get A New Doc, To Get Help With This?

Post by BleepingBeauty » Sat May 16, 2009 5:44 pm

-SWS wrote:Celebrated last night with friends. After one sticker-shock of a restaurant tab, I solemnly suggested steaks on the grill when my wife asked me where I'd like to go this evening. True story. Great friends, though. They are the ones who offered to adopt Laryssa, if she needed a good family. Great thread with great people who care. That was the thread where Banned became Sir Banned in my eyes. Sir Brazilian attained knighthood too...

Hmmm... Steaks on the grill... I seem to be working toward my own autonomic dyscontrol experiment...
Wow. I've only just started to read that long thread, but what an amazing story and an incredible gesture of kindness and generosity. I'll read the rest of the thread very soon, because now I want to know what happened.

I knew I liked this place for a very good reason: Great people!

Again, Happy Birthday, -SWS (and Kiralynx)! Many happy returns of the day(s)!

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Re: Had UPPP, Do I Have To Get A New Doc, To Get Help With This?

Post by SaltLakeJan » Sat May 16, 2009 7:26 pm

SWS

How kind of you to send me the post that may have connections to my health. I could find some conditions that seem close to what I've had. Thankfully, not all apply.

I wish you a Happy Birthday. When the credit card tab for last night's dinner arrives, remember your generosity - along with the happy evening & forget the amount. It was a night to remember. Steaks on the grill with good friends sounds like a good conclusion to your celebration.

I picked up the Fisher & Paykel Cpap. I'd asked The DME if I could buy the ResMed I had used. The R.T. said they thought about $899.00 for Cpap w/humidifier. When the Manager saw it, he sd it looked like new, & he wanted $1299.00. There was no charge for the F&P. The monthly payments will continue on my Medicare. I will wait until my Titration, June 7th, on the off chance I will need a different type. If there is no change, I'll buy my ResMed from CPAP. I hope I won't have problem getting a Prescription.

I tried the F&P for an hour, it has a heated tube. The pressure is set at 10, with humidification at 2. I have sore places in both nares, for several days, & will let them heal for a couple of days, before I try again. It was strange not to know what my stats were. ' Jan

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Re: Had UPPP, Do I Have To Get A New Doc, To Get Help With This?

Post by -SWS » Sat May 16, 2009 10:32 pm

BleepingBeauty wrote: Again, Happy Birthday, -SWS (and Kiralynx)! Many happy returns of the day(s)!
Thanks much, BB!

Yeah, that thread's a long and touching story about one very special princess. I'm glad you bumped it to the top once again!
Kiralynx wrote: I will be celebrating tomorrow with my folks... a good friend's b'day in the 15th; mine is the 17th, so we split the dif and get together to celebrate on the 16th.
We must have subconsciously known it was your birthday and celebrated along with you. We went to a New Orleans themed restaurant last night. Happy b'day!!!
SaltLakeJan wrote:I could find some conditions that seem close to what I've had. Thankfully, not all apply.
Dysautonomia is a very broad category---one that refers to almost any sympathetic/parasympathetic problems (autonomic nervous system issues). Apparently the individual symptoms and problems tend to combine. But I don't think people get them all, thank goodness.

I found it very interesting that those interrelated autonomic symptoms can change presentations from one flareup to the next. Other web sites mentioned that tachycardia or bradycardia (fast or slow heart beat) can be part of that overall category of changing autonomic instabilities. And aerophagia may even be tied in to all that, since transient LES relaxation is elicited by gastric vagal afferent stimulation.

In layperson's terms, that's the same autonomic nervous system relaxing those swallowing muscles that just so happen to let CPAP air passively breach into your stomach.

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Re: Had UPPP, Do I Have To Get A New Doc, To Get Help With This?

Post by SaltLakeJan » Sun May 17, 2009 12:09 am

SWS
Les & I have not been on good terms 15 years (I would have to verify that date to be sure ) I never connected Les with the esophageal spasms that have bothered me for ever. I had heartburn even as a child. At one time, tagamet was as good as you could get. When it first came out, wasn't it a prescriptio item? Would Hiatal Hernia be connected in a Dysautonomia to the other organs? What about an Ulcer? I can't remember a time when I didn't have pain and distress from reflux, & Hiatal Hernia.

Is there a single factor that stresses the autonomic nervous system, resulting in the linked disease/conditions.

Jus wondering.

Jan

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Re: Had UPPP, Do I Have To Get A New Doc, To Get Help With This?

Post by Muffy » Sun May 17, 2009 4:44 am

Chapter 17
-SWS wrote:I found it very interesting that those interrelated autonomic symptoms can change presentations from one flareup to the next. Other web sites mentioned that tachycardia or bradycardia (fast or slow heart beat) can be part of that overall category of changing autonomic instabilities.
In a review of the literature, it seems that the autonomic dysfunction (dysautonomia) of FBM is composed of autonomic hyperactivity during rest (and since this is largely a "sleep" site, hopefully we should be able to get a lot of data there) and a hyporeactivity to stressors.

To repeat, one would be really hard-pressed to prove a hypereactive sympathetic response in SLJ with that HR sitting down there in the 50s. Further, that HR analysis would seem to be contaminated by respiratory events, arousals and wake. Anyway, gross heart rate is not a very accurate way to look at this phenomenon, for it is not sensitive enough to pick up the subtle changes that we're talking about here.

What we really need is the ability to perform heart rate variability (HRV) analysis looking at the EKG r-r intervals. Rather than gross heart rate, it measures the time interval between heart beats, which is a far more accurate method of tracking the oscillations of the heart.

Unfortunately, it's not like somebody's gonna drop an HRV analysis during NPSG on our heads.

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Post by Muffy » Sun May 17, 2009 9:46 am

Muffy wrote:Unfortunately, it's not like somebody's gonna drop an HRV analysis during NPSG on our heads.
On the other hand, one never know, do one:

Image

Looking at the ECG R-R channel in this example of an obstructive apnea patient, 2 types of HRVs can be seen. First, the small variations that correspond to respirations (HR increases during inspiration to deal with the surge of blood it sees)-- this is High Frequency (HF) phenomena; and second the more pronounced HRVs, which are of Low Frequency (LF), and correspond to respiratory events.

What you need to know here is that the smaller the number on the y-axis (in milliseconds), the faster the HR, as the distance between "r"s diminishes.

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Re: Had UPPP, Do I Have To Get A New Doc, To Get Help With This?

Post by Kiralynx » Sun May 17, 2009 5:52 pm

We must have subconsciously known it was your birthday and celebrated along with you. We went to a New Orleans themed restaurant last night. Happy b'day!!!
Looks like decent food... but I have to admit that when I come to the Windy City next month, I'm gonna be looking for BEEF!

<g> http://donsseafoodmetairie.com/ is where I went today.
Again, Happy Birthday, -SWS (and Kiralynx)! Many happy returns of the day(s)!
Many thanks... it rained here today, but I had a delicious meal of jumbo lump crabmeat, a shrimp remoulade, and a homemade dessert.

And now we return this thread to its regularly scheduled topic.... I mean, CPAPTalk folks would never be subject to thread-drift, after all.

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Re: Had UPPP, Do I Have To Get A New Doc, To Get Help With This?

Post by ozij » Sun May 17, 2009 10:26 pm

Kiralynx wrote:

And now we return this thread to its regularly scheduled topic.... I mean, CPAPTalk folks would never be subject to thread-drift, after all.
Of course not, Kira. Monkey business like that only happens on other forums...!

Happy birthday, Kira and -SWS!

O.

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Re: Had UPPP, Do I Have To Get A New Doc, To Get Help With This?

Post by Kiralynx » Sun May 17, 2009 10:31 pm

ozij wrote: Of course not, Kira. Monkey business like that only happens on other forums...! Happy birthday, Kira and -SWS!
Ozij,

It was a pretty good b'day. As Harry's uncle used to say, "Don't care which number birthday it is as long as it isn't my last!"

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Re: Had UPPP, Do I Have To Get A New Doc, To Get Help With This?

Post by danmc » Sun May 17, 2009 11:30 pm

Hi,
Unfortunately I don't have time to read every post in this interesting thread just yet (I'm at work) but I thought it might help to tell you that I had UPPP surgery as well as the usual other butchery that less informed ENT's like to recommend and that I would like to forget. I wont go into the details of my surgery as it will ruin another day for me thinking about what could have been had I found decent medical advice first. It could have been worse I guess.

Anyhow, when I began cpap I recall well the bullfrog feeling - the mouth filling with air like a balloon. I seemed to get over it and could stop it by positioning my tongue, teeth and mouth just right and then swallowing and holding - not even sure how I do it now . I just don't get bullfrog face much any more. I thought it was normal for everyone. Perhaps my surgery wasn't as aggressive as yours. Anyhow, I know a little of how it feels for you so I'm wishing you luck with everything as well.

It might have been suggested already but I find a really good hepa air purifier in the room helps my allergies.

I am also undergoing treatment for allergies. I didn't even realise that there were effective treatments. It takes a long time and is not cheap but I get regular injections to desensitize. I couldn't believe it when an allergy specialist said oh sure it works, been around as a treatment for decades...What the hell my GP(s) have been thinking about for the last 30 years that I've been snuffling around I don't know lol.

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Re: Had UPPP, Do I Have To Get A New Doc, To Get Help With This?

Post by SaltLakeJan » Tue May 19, 2009 12:48 am

SWS wrote:

Jan, an interesting article that encapsulates many of your health issues under one umbrella of interrelated autonomic cause(s) and effect(s):

CompSAS/CSDB may arguably fall under that same general "autonomic dysregulation" umbrella according to some researchers. So far autonomic neuropathy, for instance, is viewed by researchers as having a possible CompSAS/CSDB link. You would seem to be a candidate.[/quote]

I have included very little of my personal health history, I didn't believe it related to resolving my Sleep Apnea puzzle. After reading the articles on dysregulation, that the syndromes are caused by many different things, viral illnesses, fatigue, head trauma, Diarrhea, IBS., some inherit the tendency to develop the Dysautonomia syndromes. And whatever the symptoms, all these syndromes are real, honest-to-goodness physiological (as opposed to psychologic) disorders. Also that family doctors are likely to refer these patients to a specialist. With time, the symptoms either go away, or abate to the point the person can live nearly a normal life.

Perhaps you would know from other research studies if a person with a health history similar to mine, might be connected to "autonomic dysregulation?" I saw my internists for some of the conditions, but my health insurance permits direct appointments with specialists & if I had an idea what I had, I went to a specialist.

I had Glomerulonephritis as a six-year-old child, I don't remember much of anything about that, or the skull fracture when I was twelve. I do recall heartburn (acid reflux, which has been with me most of my life) However, My repetitive health problems began when DH & I apparently drank contanimated water at a resort; we were both diagnosed Hepatitis A. We were both fatigued and not well for 2 1/2 years. It was a hard period. After that I primarily had upper respiratory conditions; laryngitis for 18 months, (could not speak above a whisper) Several bouts of pneumonia, which were frightening. Frequent bronchitis. Repeated sinus infections/or irritated sinuses are still with me. I never had a repeat of laryngitis after this period.

Anaphylatic Shock from a bee sting, para medics gave me an IV & I carried an Epi pen for years. then 2-3 years of Cystitis. next Colitis, or IBS, I The Colitis and IBS were separate, but both painful and life altering. . Diverticulitis, several events of H. pylori, which the Dr said was linked to Chronic Gastritis (Gerd). I have been anemic off & on since I was a teen, last time was 2006-8 . The Cystitis, Colitis, IBS and H pylori ,have never bothered me again.

My Gastro Doctor has been with me for years, the next thing he diagnosed was Esophgeal Ring and Esophgeal Spasms. I have choked frequently and had three emergency Heimlick Maneuvers. They were in a sequence, since then I chew very carefully.

By the time I reached 40, my internist was treating me for High Blood Pressure and High Cholesterol. My first total Cholesterol value was 519. With diet, prescriptions for both and on-going exercise, I brought both under good control. At a recent doctor visit, my BP was 122/55, Cholesterol 137, with Trig. of 72. Blood sugar of 97. High Blood Pressure and High Cholesterol are family conditions. I also had three head injuries - concussions.

Later, I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, the muscle pains, on-going body aches, and all the other symptoms made my life difficult. (Chronic Fatigue - maybe, maybe not).

About a year later, I had a small heel spur removed, it didn't heal, a culture revealed Pseudomonas infection which quickly turned into Osteolymetis in my heel. A Central Venous Catheter was placed in my left arm. I had seven infusions per day of what my Dr. called "kill or cure" antiobiotics (Gentamiicin, Amikacin, Tobramcyn, etc. etc.) It took six months of infusing the antiobiotic seven times a day, to eliminate the Osteolymetis, and Pseudomonas. The treatment was almost as bad as the condition. The cather had to be changed from left arm to Centrasil Venous Cather despite my Infectious Disease Dr.'s concern of risks heart infection. Along with all complications my WBC count went to 1.2. Antiobiotics had to be stopped until WBC count raised to 5. I had several heel surgeries to scrape the bone. I had a team of Doctors treating me. In check-ups a year later, I was told that none of them expected me to live.

This was the most traumatic of all my illnesses. And after denying ever having depression, I think what I labeled discouraged and worry, could have been depression. I was seriously ill during the entire experience. When my WBC count was 1.2, I recall drifting in and out of consciousness. My veins did not accept the infusions of the antiobiotics well, each took an hour and a half. It took approximately 10 hours each day to have the antiobiotic drip into my veins. My skin became very dry, and fungus developed behind my ears & in the creases in my fingers. My lips turned bright red & the roof of my mouth was raw. In order to avoid diarrhea, which was a natural consequence of the antiobiotics, I ate nothing but white rice for the last four months. A mouthful of anyother food would start diarrhea, which would bring critical consequences & the doctor said I would have to stop the antiobiotic.

I found out I had diabetes and sleep apnea, I have read of the link between them. Do you believe they have a link to my previous conditions?

In early 2002, I had a series of infections, that resisted treatment. The Infectious Disease Dr. sent me to a Dr in the Division of Clinical Immunology at the U of U Medicial School. He identified I had no risk factors for HIV, but by laboratory history, had a low IgM. "She has had recurrent pneumonia, two or more recent episodes. Since isolated IgM deficiency is relatively rare, I am wondering whether she might have some associated, either IgG subclass deficiency or some other problem leading to the pneumonas. Today we are going to do an immunofixation electrophoresis to look for monoclonal protein, which will also repeat her IgG, IgM & IgA. We are going to get IgG subclasses. To check for IgM responsiveness we are going to measure an isohemagglutinin tier against her A & B group antigens. We are going to check a T-cell short profile to be sure there is not an associated T-cell abnormality. He said if there is IgM abnormality, we are not going to be able to treat the IgM deficiency since gammaglobulin has very low levels of immunoglobulin M in it and the half-life is short. If the pneumonias continue to be a problem, I might strongly consider using trimethoprim sulfa on a prophylactic basis.

He later sent a letter to my Doctor. Labs include a normal CBC and differential, ESR 10, normal SPEP and IFE, IgG-1070 (normal) IgA - 256, IgM- only 31 (normal 60-263) but an isohemagglutinin titer to B substances of 1:32, which is normal. Diptheria antibody is low, tetanus and pneumococcal antibodies are good. CD4 and CD8 are normal, but CD4:8 is low because of increased CD8%. Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do about a low IgM. Let me know if additional infectious appear.

When I re-read this accumulation of conditions/syndromes it seems too much for one person to have and keep from disolving into a hopeless morass
of self-pity. One of the main reasons I have survived is my DH. He has been a constant support & tells me, "Don't worry about this, we'll get through this together." Many of my doctors have been personal friends, and they have made similar comments, "there is nothing you have done to cause this" No doctor has ever told me "it's all in your mind." A few of my closest friends know of my medical history, but I do not make a habit of talking about any illness to anyone other than DH. or the doctor who is treating me.

SWS, I read in the article re: Dysautonomia that many years ago exercise was restricted. They have now discovered that maintaining a daily level of physical activity is the most important thing people with these syndromes can do. Daily levels of moderate activity helps to stablize the autonomic nervous sysem, and make "relapses of syptoms more rare and shorter duration. Physical activity may even hasten the day when symptoms go away on their own. Perhaps forms of exercise that I have had to force myself to do, when fatigued, has been one of the main factors in becoming healthier now that I am eligible for Medicare.

Many of the diseases/syndromes have never repeated, but through changing some health habits, & having a body/mind awareness, I have been able to stop repeat performances of some conditions. Daily nasal irrigation has prevented sinus infections. Because I changed eating habits, I keep an AIC of 6, and & reduced my cholerestrol. Dr Krakow says you have to have the capacity to engage in self-generated restructuring to overcome many of your problem areas.

However, the article by Dr Krakow titled "Intelligency levels in Insomnia Patients" has been very revealing to me. He wrote about the Thoughts, Feelings and Images system. As the illnesses accumulated, I realize I shut my feelings down regarding any kind of sickness. I didn't let them really happen to me emotionally. It is hard to explain, because DH & I see that I get good medical care when a situation arises, I don't neglect my health. I exercise and stay with my Diabetic diet. I take my prescriptions on a regular basis. I keep my feelings for our children and DH at high priority, I feel a closeness to my friends. Children in trouble, like Larissa, touch me deeply.

I was going to write, I haven't closed off my ability to Imagine or picture something that is appealing to me. I picture myself as a healthy person, which isn't a realistic image - but it is a ideal image. And one I strive for in my health habits. To achieve the image of going to bed & sleeping soundly is something I am working toward. We took a couple of days vacation, played golf during the day & I slept better & deeper than I usually do.

I do not like talking about illness, but I have the feeling this is the appropiate time to acknowledge I have been ill, frequently in my life and I have been in denial about it. I believe the article about dysautonomia began a thought process where I can acknowledge I have felt discouraged many times to have one condition follow another, then another, etc. Possibly, I have felt depressed, and shut that off too. Who knows? Jan

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Last edited by SaltLakeJan on Tue May 19, 2009 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Had UPPP, Do I Have To Get A New Doc, To Get Help With This?

Post by SaltLakeJan » Tue May 19, 2009 1:05 am

Hi danmc

I don't know which country originated the UPPP surgery, it seems to be on everywhere. I have yet to read where a person has been helped by it. And you know what a painful after effects follow the surgery. I personally believe the doctors who continue to do the surgery have to know it isn't successful for the patient. However, it is financially successful for the doc.

I had to laugh when I read your description of the bullfrog feeling. You described it so well, I could almost feel my cheeks puffin' out.

I'm glad the allergy shots worked for you - Why hasn't anyone suggested it to me? Maybe I haven't been to enough docs.

Thanks for your best wishes - I'm sending my best to you.

Jan

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Re: Had UPPP, Do I Have To Get A New Doc, To Get Help With This?

Post by -SWS » Tue May 19, 2009 1:46 pm

Jan, et al- Just a check-in from me. I'm still catching up with work and will resume discussion here. And as usual, there's plenty to discuss!

Danmc, good to see you!

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Re: Had UPPP, Do I Have To Get A New Doc, To Get Help With This?

Post by -SWS » Thu May 21, 2009 8:27 am

Jan, I'll bet this is going to be another monstrously long thread, with all the information and side-topics looming. But before going further, I have to ask if any of your doctors ever suggested an at-home Holter Monitor test to see exactly what's up with your heart during the day and night?

I think with the information you presented, I'd probably request that my doctor arrange a Holter Monitor test just to be on the safe side. I'd personally be interested in noting any transient arrhythmias and heart-rate extremes/variations in general. If I had a PSG scheduled soon, though, I'd probably wait to see those results first. But I'd eventually want the Holter Monitor test added to the overall data picture as well.

4/2000 PSG summary wrote: Heart Rate (BPM)-------------------54
Max. Heart Rate (during sleep---107
Min. Heart Rate (during sleep-----18
12/2008 PSG summary wrote:HEART RATE SUMMARY
Average Heart Rate--------52
Low Heart Rate-------------16
High Heart Rate------------150
no Bradycardic periods
no Tachycardic periods

** Sinus arrhythmia was seen throughout the night (see print out) and there were no PV'C's. *The ECG lead had a poor connection so it was difficult to access the HR.

**Conclusion #6. Single lead EKG revealed normal sinus rhythm with no significant arrhythmias.
* Sleep Dr. 12-2008 cover letter somewhere. Tech noted lead "off" or "poor connection, can't remember which. Jan
Muffy, how would you proceed if those were your own HR summaries? Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

Anyone else have thoughts to share? Thanks.

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Re: Had UPPP, Do I Have To Get A New Doc, To Get Help With This?

Post by -SWS » Thu May 21, 2009 12:14 pm

Kiralynx wrote:
We must have subconsciously known it was your birthday and celebrated along with you. We went to a New Orleans themed restaurant last night. Happy b'day!!!
Looks like decent food... but I have to admit that when I come to the Windy City next month, I'm gonna be looking for BEEF!
Well, Chicago no longer has the active stock yards prominently highlighted by social reformist and author Upton Sinclair . But supposedly Italian Beef originated in the Chicago metro area. Speaking of stock yards, you'd sure think I owned yards and yards of stock in Wikipedia with all those links.

Heading up to the Windy City just in time for kite flying season... Smart! If you like Chicago-style pan pizza, there are always Gino's East, Uno's, or even Lou Malnati's pizzerias to choose from. Glad you had a good b'day!


ozij wrote:
Kiralynx wrote:
And now we return this thread to its regularly scheduled topic.... I mean, CPAPTalk folks would never be subject to thread-drift, after all.
Of course not, Kira. Monkey business like that only happens on other forums...!
I've heard vague rumors that sort of thing occasionally happens on message boards. I'll keep my eyes peeled! I want to be able to spot that kind of thing should it ever happen here. Kind of like bird watching... You want to be able to spot that rare bird, in the highly unlikely case that it just flies right by the old Audubon-approved binoculars!



ozij wrote:Happy birthday, Kira and -SWS!
A belated thanks!