Is "Board Certified" A Guarantee Of Anything?

[elader]

All it means is the doc has paid his fees to be certified and agreed to follow whatever guidelines the association involved has established. Certainly doesn't signify any special knowledge or skills beyond what can be found with docs who refuse to play that game.

Not true - there are standards and exams beyond to get certified. My brother is board certified in internal medicine and he went through quite a lot of cramming and education to get there.

certainly it's no indication your doc is not a schmuck though.

[sleepyangler]

Oh your brother is a certified in internal medicine? Really? I had no idea. Well in that case I am now convinced that a certified, sleep ambassador really is something special. Maybe I should fire the doc current treating my apnea and find one of these super special certified ambassadors.

Thanks but no thanks.

[Debjax]

So if I were a doctor who had around average knowledge for a doctor about sleep apnea and I had a high drive for becoming a leader in that field, I could take a few extra courses, cram for them, pay the required fee and become certified by a board ...

Think you are overgeneralizing a bit? Some are actually pretty well qualified....I know my sleep doctor is board certified in Pulmonology, Polmonology Critical Care, Internal Medicine, anaesthesiology and has been the anaesthesiologist on heart and other organ transplants....He studied sleep medicine at the University of Michigan, under the neurology department.

I have to say, if you're seeing a doctor who is as you described above, that is your fault. I research any doctor I go to see, and if I don't like what the research shows, I find a different doctor, or if the doctor is an arrogant prig who talks down to me, they will not see me again. The only exception I have made on that one is when my husband had his heart attack, and we got the "luck of the draw" when it came to his catheterization....but we got lucky there, as we got a cardiologist that is 5 star all around...

[Riv]

All it means is the doc has paid his fees to be certified and agreed to follow whatever guidelines the association involved has established. Certainly doesn't signify any special knowledge or skills beyond what can be found with docs who refuse to play that game.

Not true - there are standards and exams beyond to get certified. My brother is board certified in internal medicine and he went through quite a lot of cramming and education to get there.

certainly it's no indication your doc is not a schmuck though.

Maybe the standards are different in internal medicine. I don't know, I'd assume that standards are high everywhere but I don't know because I can't fathom an expert who acts like that doctor acted. Maybe a doctor can cheat or bulls-it his way through? Buy or bribe his way through? Or maybe learn what he needs to learn and then promptly store it away, to be used only when he needs to impress someone in order to be well thought of by the establishment, by the new doctors, by the patients who pay upfront instead of through a not so good insurance..............in order to become a leader in the sleep apnea industry?

I wouldn't recommend this doctor to my worst enemy................or maybe I would.

[sleepyangler]

....I know my sleep doctor is board certified in Pulmonology, Polmonology Critical Care, Internal Medicine, anaesthesiology and has been the anaesthesiologist on heart and other organ transplants....He studied sleep medicine at the University of Michigan, under the neurology department.

The one thing missing in all those "certifications" is any mention of being sleep medicine certified. Those are all legit certifications and took some hard work to obtain. Being certified to hand out an xpap machine isn't worth the paper it is written on. My sleep doc is also a certified pulmonolgist and that's plenty good enough for me to believe she has the necessary eduction, training an knowledge to serve my needs.

[Riv]

So if I were a doctor who had around average knowledge for a doctor about sleep apnea and I had a high drive for becoming a leader in that field, I could take a few extra courses, cram for them, pay the required fee and become certified by a board ...

Think you are overgeneralizing a bit? Some are actually pretty well qualified....I know my sleep doctor is board certified in Pulmonology, Polmonology Critical Care, Internal Medicine, anaesthesiology and has been the anaesthesiologist on heart and other organ transplants....He studied sleep medicine at the University of Michigan, under the neurology department.

I have to say, if you're seeing a doctor who is as you described above, that is your fault. I research any doctor I go to see, and if I don't like what the research shows, I find a different doctor, or if the doctor is an arrogant prig who talks down to me, they will not see me again. The only exception I have made on that one is when my husband had his heart attack, and we got the "luck of the draw" when it came to his catheterization....but we got lucky there, as we got a cardiologist that is 5 star all around...

I don't see him anymore.

In fact I'd probably cross the street and walk in another direction if I ever saw him walking down the street.

No, I'm not overgeneralizing but I don't think people should overgeneralize and assume a doctor is going to be good because he's board certified either.

[Debjax]

No, I'm not overgeneralizing but I don't think people should overgeneralize and assume a doctor is going to be good because he's board certified either.

Well, as Elader said....board certified means they have demonstrated a minimum level of specialized knowledge, but it does not guarantee the doc won't be a schmuck. I've seen doctors who were top of their field...knowledgewise....but when it came to dealing with patients, that was another story completely.

[Riv]

No, I'm not overgeneralizing but I don't think people should overgeneralize and assume a doctor is going to be good because he's board certified either.

Well, as Elader said....board certified means they have demonstrated a minimum level of specialized knowledge, but it does not guarantee the doc won't be a schmuck. I've seen doctors who were top of their field...knowledgewise....but when it came to dealing with patients, that was another story completely.

If I'm a doctor and I know but I don't share what I know with a patient who wants to know? If I lie, if I contradict myself, if I get a prissy attitude, refuse to answer the patient, walk out of the office because I was asked a stupid question or I don't like the question or I can't answer the question..........am I at the top of my field? If I act stupid when my patient wants his full titration results, I cut out one part and then insist that "no titration study ever shows the breakdown of AHIs by sleeping position" which is a lie!

Gee, he could sure act like a nice guy when I had an appointment and he came in with a doctor who he was training. And the first doctor I went to when I was looking to replace him told me that he knew my doctor, that my doctor trained him, that my doctor was a "nice guy".

[Riv]

No, I'm not overgeneralizing but I don't think people should overgeneralize and assume a doctor is going to be good because he's board certified either.

Well, as Elader said....board certified means they have demonstrated a minimum level of specialized knowledge, but it does not guarantee the doc won't be a schmuck. I've seen doctors who were top of their field...knowledgewise....but when it came to dealing with patients, that was another story completely.

If I'm a doctor and I know but I don't share what I know with a patient who wants to know? If I lie, if I contradict myself, if I get a prissy attitude, refuse to answer the patient, storm out of the office and tell him he's a pest because I was asked a stupid question by a scared person new to apnea or I don't like the question or I can't answer the question..........am I at the top of my field? If I act stupid when my patient wants his full titration results, I cut out one part and then insist that "no titration study ever shows the breakdown of AHIs by sleeping position" which is a lie!

Gee, he could sure act like a nice guy when I had an appointment and he came in with a doctor who he was training. And the first doctor I went to when I was looking to replace him told me that he knew my doctor, that my doctor trained him, that my doctor was a "nice guy".

[elader]

Oh your brother is a certified in internal medicine? Really? I had no idea. Well in that case I am now convinced that a certified, sleep ambassador really is something special. Maybe I should fire the doc current treating my apnea and find one of these super special certified ambassadors.

Thanks but no thanks.

You know, if I didn't know better, I would think from your response that you are a total asshole. Thank goodness that isn't true. The question was whether board certified means anything. Yes it does. It means additional studying and exams. Just like I said. Your droll sarcasm to my straightforward response to a straightforward question is counterproductive. I hope it made you feel good anyway.

If you might also have noticed if you had bothered to read my response and allow the words to penetrate was that I also said that although Board Certification is an indication of specialized training, no amount of education or training makes up for someone being a bad doctor.

[Riv]

Elader,

I'm the OP and I for one appreciate your straightforward response to my straightforward posts and as I see it, sarcasm never mixes well with seriousness even if the sarcastic response agrees with my POV more than the serious response does.

Your honest answer deepens this thread and it opens up more questions as any honest answer should do.

My answer to you was:

Maybe the standards are different in internal medicine. I don't know, I'd assume that standards are high everywhere but I don't know because I can't fathom an expert who acts like that doctor acted. Maybe a doctor can cheat or bulls-it his way through? Buy or bribe his way through? Or maybe learn what he needs to learn and then promptly store it away, to be used only when he needs to impress someone in order to be well thought of by the establishment, by the new doctors, by the patients who pay upfront instead of through a not so good insurance..............in order to become a leader in the sleep apnea industry?

If I'm a doctor and I know but I don't share what I know with a patient who wants to know? If I lie, if I contradict myself, if I get a prissy attitude, refuse to answer the patient, walk out of the office because I was asked a stupid question or I don't like the question or I can't answer the question..........am I at the top of my field? If I act stupid when my patient wants his full titration results, I cut out one part and then insist that "no titration study ever shows the breakdown of AHIs by sleeping position" which is a lie!

Gee, he could sure act like a nice guy when I had an appointment and he came in with a doctor who he was training. And the first doctor I went to when I was looking to replace him told me that he knew my doctor, that my doctor trained him, that my doctor was a "nice guy".

[Debjax]

If I'm a doctor and I know but I don't share what I know with a patient who wants to know? If I lie, if I contradict myself, if I get a prissy attitude, refuse to answer the patient, storm out of the office and tell him he's a pest because I was asked a stupid question by a scared person new to apnea or I don't like the question or I can't answer the question..........am I at the top of my field?

But, you see, none of this has anything to do with board certification. This has to do with whether you have a clue about how to deal with patients.

[Riv]

[/quote]But, you see, none of this has anything to do with board certification. This has to do with whether you have a clue about how to deal with patients.[/quote]

I'm not so sure if you are right about that. Maybe you are right, but I would logically think that I wouldn't be lying, hiding things, so obviously defensive, so hair trigger sensitive to hard questions, contradicting myself, so nasty, if I were a top doctor as the term board certified indicated I was.

[Debjax]

I'm not so sure if you are right about that. Maybe you are right, but I would logically think that I wouldn't be lying, hiding things, so obviously defensive, so hair trigger sensitive to hard questions, contradicting myself, so nasty, if I were a top doctor as the term board certified indicated I was.

I think you are confusing "board certification" or even being in the top of a field with a physician's integrity or attitude with respect to the relationship with his or her patients . The ONLY thing board certification implies is that the physician has additional, specialized knowledge regarding the field and has passed a series of tests that certify that knowledge. It says nothing about his or her "bedside manner" or ability to communicate that knowledge to others.

[Riv]

I'm not so sure if you are right about that. Maybe you are right, but I would logically think that I wouldn't be lying, hiding things, so obviously defensive, so hair trigger sensitive to hard questions, contradicting myself, so nasty, if I were a top doctor as the term board certified indicated I was.

I think you are confusing "board certification" or even being in the top of a field with a physician's integrity or attitude with respect to the relationship with his or her patients . The ONLY thing board certification implies is that the physician has additional, specialized knowledge regarding the field and has passed a series of tests that certify that knowledge. It says nothing about his or her "bedside manner" or ability to communicate that knowledge to others.

I see your point.

Then what good is additional, specialized knowledge if the doctor doesn't (at least to my awareness) use it?

What I'm trying to do is to

1-Find out if there are any clues when meeting a doctor as to whether a doctor is good or not. Being board certified isn't a guarantee of getting good treatment even if the doctor knows more than the average doctor.

2-Open up a dialogue about this topic so that others won't be fooled by a mere board designation or being called a "diplomate" which to me (combined with my very low impression of that doctor) makes me picture a politicized sailor for some reason LOL (Chris Columbus?) pompously standing on deck, wearing a captain's hat as he sways unsteadily to the rhythms of the small boat he's on.

I looked the doctor up on line of course. Found a doctor rating site which gave him high ratings and I admit I was surprised. Then I saw that only two people rated him. LOL, your wife and your MIL could do that for you. Just tell them "extra money"..............Heck, you could rate yourself for the few bucks it costs to join one of those internet places and make it back by charging the insurance $300 for a five minute "consultation" which ends abruptly because you took offense at your patient's question.

Then there was a picture on the doctor's site from a local paper of the doctor's very own sleep study center with the doctor himself posing as a "knowledgeable, caring physician" next to a technician and a patient who is about to undergo a sleep study and gee didn't the doctor look so concerned LOL as he stood there and so obviously gently appeared to be adjusting the gadgets attached to the patient...........that's the usual picture taken of politicized owners who try to confuse the public into subconsciously getting the wrong impression that the owner is a "worker who cares and gets personally involved in the day to day blah blah" ala say Jimmy Carter "the peanut farmer" circa 1976 and how much would you bet that this doctor bootsied it out of there the second that the cameraman and the reporter got back into their car.

And then the quotes attributed to the doctor from various talk shows he was on or stories about sleep apnea which briefly interviewed and quoted him (by phone?)..................

That guy knows how to look good, knows how to get positive attention, knows how to make a good impression, knows how to leave a positive trail.

So he knows how to sell himself, fine.

But what does any of it have to do with how much he knows and how good a doctor he is?