OT - Economy and jobs data

[MrSandman]

Chicken Little - The sky is falling,the sky is falling. I have worked full-time since I just turned 17 with only 3 months off after a layoff and I may be laid-off very soon and I have never seen things so bad. Someone give me some hope because all the bad news is starting to get to me. I have been in my current job 2 years so no big layoff package for me-sure wish I never left my old job for a few more dollars an hour.

The only good thing is that with my new found energy I will have no problem working a couple of jobs if I need to just to come close to replacing my current salary.

The other positive is everything that has ever happened to me concerning jobs has lead me to a better job and I am ready for a BIG change mentally-I HATE my current job environment.

But this stuff has began to finally get to me and is making me anxious and worried. With 5 kids it is hard not to worry. It is easy to say to look at the bright side since 90% of people are working but then it isn't so easy if you are one getting let go and trying to find a GOOD job in this environment.

I am starting to think this is all part of a big shift towards either being well off or poor with no in between.

Then there is health insurance. Uncle Sam can stuff COBRA laws right up thier collective arses. They brag about COBRA as if they really did something but who the hell can afford it? Please! $1000 month for family coverage... If I had that $1000 I would have to spend it on food.

I just watched SICKO last night and as a so called die hard republican I have always been anti Michael but I was in tears watching that and seeing how some other countries have it compared to us... Watch it... I am sorry Michael and Thanks for this movie.

Sorry - just venting.

[nobody]

I hear ya, man. I've spent the day working on my taxes. I'm itemizing this year because my medical expenses last year totaled over 10 grand and I HAVE health insurance, two of them!! Something seriously needs to change because my savings have been wiped out, and I still need a surgery this year. Now there is a job you should go into - some kind of health care, obviously there's big money in that

[MrSandman]

I am a technician and have been trying to get hired as a biomed technician for 6 months with no luck. I think I make too much money right now ... Maybe not for long... McDonalds is hiring(this from my Wife). Gee - Thanks Honey! Never know though.

[TSSleepy]

It's definitely scary!

My sleep study is in one week and I am at a physical, mental, and emotional low.

A couple people just got laid off in my area, and I worry that I might follow them in April or July if our quarterly numbers continue to tank.

I'm starting to get real paranoid. On one hand, I feel so horrible I can barely stand the thought of going to work everyday. On the other hand, I don't dare show "weakness" at work or I'll be out the door the next time someone needs to go.

I'm just praying I can make it to next Friday for my sleep study, get an xPAP, start feeling better, and lose some serious weight... before I need to look for a job. I'm just not in any kind of condition to take on a job search in this economic environment at my current health level.

~TS

[Lee Lee]

Just found out today I'm going to get furloughed for 2 weeks with no pay , last two weeks of March.
I work for a huge IT company.
That might not sound bad to some, but my husband works for the same company ,and I'm not sure how we're gonna pay the bills in April.
I wasn't that scared at first, and now I am terrified.

[roster]

Good people are still in demand. I talked to a friend this morning who is an HR director and heavily involved in the community, Chamber of Commerce and several councils. He has looked at some studies that slice the unemployed up into segments based on "employee value". He was throwing out numbers off the top of his head but had been in a meeting yesterday where the numbers were discussed and believes he still has a grasp of them.

The unemployment rate of first level performers (low job turnover, low absentee rate, good references, good reputation, good education) is maybe as low as 2%. And this group, once unemployed, tends to find new jobs quickly.

Then he mentioned some other groups and I don't remember the details but the lowest level of performers is maybe as high as 18% unemployed currently and it takes them much longer to find another job. These are people who don't have a good track record.

Now there are geographic pockets and skill niches where even the first level performers are hurting. Many of these will quickly rebound by relocating or retraining. With their good records retraining is often on the job because employers feel good about investing in these people. Other older employees may not be willing to relocate and no one wants to retrain them so they end up in lower level jobs with much lower wages.

I feel for all the good people out of work now but there are still opportunities and the economy will improve. Personally, I believe it will improve before the year is over but that opinion and $2.12 will buy you a cup of Caribou's coffee of the day.

My son is sitting on a bubble now with only 8 months experience fresh out of undergraduate school. This is a tough introduction to capitalism and if his bubble pops it will get tougher. I was in the same position when the nasty recession of 1973-74 hit. It did teach me to stuff the money away and delay gratification. We always lived in cheaper houses than we could afford, drove cheaper cars than we could afford, took cheaper vacations than we could afford, ........ and stuffed the investments away. Now the wisdom of this is crystal clear as I am older, worn out from sleep apnea, and not expecting to work much more.

Best of luck to anyone who is struggling. We have a high level of technology and a vibrant and educated society. Things will improve.

[MrSandman]

Good people are still in demand. I talked to a friend this morning who is an HR director and heavily involved in the community, Chamber of Commerce and several councils. He has looked at some studies that slice the unemployed up into segments based on "employee value". He was throwing out numbers off the top of his head but had been in a meeting yesterday where the numbers were discussed and believes he still has a grasp of them.

The unemployment rate of first level performers (low job turnover, low absentee rate, good references, good reputation, good education) is maybe as low as 2%. And this group, once unemployed, tends to find new jobs quickly.

Then he mentioned some other groups and I don't remember the details but the lowest level of performers is maybe as high as 18% unemployed currently and it takes them much longer to find another job. These are people who don't have a good track record.

Now there are geographic pockets and skill niches where even the first level performers are hurting. Many of these will quickly rebound by relocating or retraining. With their good records retraining is often on the job because employers feel good about investing in these people. Other older employees may not be willing to relocate and no one wants to retrain them so they end up in lower level jobs with much lower wages.

I feel for all the good people out of work now but there are still opportunities and the economy will improve. Personally, I believe it will improve before the year is over but that opinion and $2.12 will buy you a cup of Caribou's coffee of the day.

My son is sitting on a bubble now with only 8 months experience fresh out of undergraduate school. This is a tough introduction to capitalism and if his bubble pops it will get tougher. I was in the same position when the nasty recession of 1973-74 hit. It did teach me to stuff the money away and delay gratification. We always lived in cheaper houses than we could afford, drove cheaper cars than we could afford, took cheaper vacations than we could afford, ........ and stuffed the investments away. Now the wisdom of this is crystal clear as I am older, worn out from sleep apnea, and not expecting to work much more.

Best of luck to anyone who is struggling. We have a high level of technology and a vibrant and educated society. Things will improve.

WOW ROOSTER - I feel better already - not... GOOD PEOPLE... Shame on you man. A lot of GOOD PEOPLE are SOL. DAMN I know you didn't just go there...

[mhurley3]

I hear you Browser. A week ago I was fired from my job after 36 years of significant contributions and glowing performance reviews. The reason given was that the project I work on was being "de-emphasized". My pension has been truncated, my 401K is in the cellar, I have lost my income and I am 61 years old. I am angry and depressed. If I didn't have CPAP therapy I would probably be suicidal. The really depressing thing is that hundreds of thousands of Americans have lost their jobs and are probably worse off than me.

[MrSandman]

I hear you Browser. A week ago I was fired from my job after 36 years of significant contributions and glowing performance reviews. The reason given was that the project I work on was being "de-emphasized". My pension has been truncated, my 401K is in the cellar, I have lost my income and I am 61 years old. I am angry and depressed. If I didn't have CPAP therapy I would probably be suicidal. The really depressing thing is that hundreds of thousands of Americans have lost their jobs and are probably worse off than me.

Well mhurley3 just remember what I will be trying to remember which is that we are not what we do for a living and it is only money and a means to an end. I went through this before and just told myself whats the worse that can happen. There is no debtor prisons. Hell I don't really know what to tell you. Last time I was laid-off we had just moved into our new house,bought a car for my work needs only and my wife was 8 months pregnant and had just quit her job to stay home with what would be 4 kids. I was one of the last hires but I know I was laid-off because my beloved Manager was replaced by a couple guys I never got along with. I was called in on a Wednesday morning out of the blue. I stopped at a pay phone to tell my Wife on the way home and cried like a baby. This will not happen again! I will not shed a tear if I get the axe this time! I will move on! I was out of work 4 months but the new job paid better. I still had two repos and lost most everything except the house. I didn't get any severance and my health insurance stopped a couple days later. Oh not to mention the medical bills because I couldn't pay for the f-ing cobra. I filed BK and it is about 9 months from falling off my credit right now. I gotta say though I enjoyed that time off with the kids and there is a certain feeling of freedom when you finally say frack-it I can't pay anymore. We never went hungry or homeless. Oh we swallowed our pride and applied for food stamps and anything else we could but we still had one of the cars then and they said we had too many valuable assets or something like that-even though the car had a big loan on it and no equity.

I have had ZERO loyalty to any company since then and never will. I use them like they use us. I do my job but just like they give me those stupid hire at will notices I figure it is a two way street. If I don't have time to give two weeks notice they don't get it.

[goose]

Well I gotta tell ya -- it sucks out there in the world today!!! My last employment went to India thanks to the incentives the government has been giving to corporations to do just that (I was doing capital planning and budgeting for a large blue company after they had taken over the IT functions of the company I'd previously worked for. Having seen the "inside" of that operation, nobody will EVER convince me they're not making their numbers plus 1000%). What's with that?? How does that support the American work force??? Incentives??? They should penalize the hell out of the corporations that do that!!!!!

I've been an IT weenie for 35 years; a generalist; a jack of all trades. I've done everything in IT that is possible short of VP and director - I've written software as a systems programmer, I've done hardware as a network engineer, I've designed hardware (modems) and repaired it at the component level (until ATE machines put us out of business - and rightfully so), I've taught statistical multiplexing to high powered engineers, I've managed departments, I've managed projects big and small (even a super fund cleanup for a semiconductor manufacturer that had polluted an area so badly there is some property they own that can NEVER be used for anything!! Ever!!! Cleanup what??), I've done white papers analyzing info technology for the CIO of a company working to "squash" management by magazine, I've analyzed lease bases, budgets, numbers until they come out my ears and saved 2 companies multiple millions of dollars in wasted expenses. I could go on...........
Until about September I was submitting 4-6 applications a week and getting maybe one interview a month, and if those listings weren't EOE listings and were actually filled, they were filled by someone with a quarter of the experience and half my age (and probably for half the $$$). Since September if I get one listing in a week to apply for I'm doing the happy dance, but that said, I've had one interview since September and it was an EOE listing.....so it was just a waste of everyone's time, effort, and petrol!!!!
Corporate America doesn't have any use for experienced workers. So people in my age group (I'll be 59 next week) are set adrift with no oars and tons of lip service.
The shrubster and his cronies left this place in a world of hurt and unfortunately I don't see it getting better all that soon.

I'm finally getting off my ass and doing my own thing. I'm now a "qualified solar consultant" and I'm working on my 30+ year old tie dye business (I'll always be a hippie. It's not a changeable condition...) .
My old job went to India on June 1st 2007 -- so it's been a while!!!!!! (I started xPAP on the 5th of June that same year!!)

Browser, asses your skills and be prepared to do for yourself - consult, independent tech etc......It's an ugly economy out there unless your a bank, a CEO or a car company.
Hate to put it to you that way, and I'm sure it's not what you want to hear, but it's honest!!!!
Take care!!!
cheers
goose

[DreamStalker]

It is all because people vote republican or democrat (they are each but two sides of the same coin). The corporations have that figured out and pay off each side to keep the economic balance tipped in their favor. People need to get away from their tribal politics and vote for public servants rather than political party.

Republican bailouts, democratic bailouts ... in the end it is unregulated greedy corporate business that stays on top (corporate benefits for public risks) ... buy local (small private business) when ever possible and screw the international corporate conglomerates model and their so called "free trade" (I feel for 'ya goose) bull crap.

Rooster - You are a fortunate one. Hard working and worthy but yet fortunate. As Boweser said, there are many "good" people out there who are also hard working and worthy. But not all are so fortunate competing against corporate greed (and just because they are not as fortunate or not in top 2% regarding low job turnover, low absentee rate, good references, good reputation, good education does not mean they are lazy or unworthy). I have been working since I was 8 ... no kidding. My father instilled in me a good work ethic at a young age and while the more fortunate kids on the block got "allowances", my father loaned me his lawn mower and told me that if I bought my own gas and mowed our own lawn for free, I could use it to mow the neighbors yards to make spending money. I got a job at a grocery store by lying about my age when I was 15. I paid my way through college. Only in the past 9 years (after turning 40) have I been able to buy a cheap home although I have had cheap cars since I was 17 (w/ grocery store income -- possible only because I was still living w/ my parents til I turned 19). I did not even experience health insurance until I was 36 years old and after 20 years of not seeing doctors because I could not afford to. I have yet to afford a cheap vacation unless you call camping at the state park for a weekend a vacation. And investments, I'll have to win the lotto first ... once I have enough $$ left over to buy tickets.

I make a median income now and have health insurance (less than half of what Daschel owed in back taxes or less than a third of Palin's campaign wardrobe or less than a wall street COE's office rug ). My priority now is my health when it comes to disposable income ... cheap vacations not so much, though it would be nice to some day travel to Europe or Asia or South America or any place other than the state park. But I think I'm stuck with virtual vacations on the cable TV and internet

[mindy]

I hear you guys! I'm a 64-yo swf and my employer has emphatically said that layoffs are coming soon. I'm in what used to be considered a very safe job position in a very safe industry. I don't think anything is "safe" anymore. I'm more fortunate than some since I'm close to retirement and have some retirement savings left after the big drop ... but it will likely be a lean retirement rather than the moderate comfort I had anticipated. And who wants to hire a 64-yo? I've always been terrified of being laid off or fired and worrying never did me any good. I'd mop floors or be a greeter at Wal-Mart if that's what it takes to survive (I wouldn't like it!). I've cut way back on expenses and am constantly noticing things I could do without.

On the other side, I've been through some tough times over the years, including the bad 1974 economy and it seems like all of our worrying doesn't make any difference. I know - worrying is not a switch we can turn on and off - but it's such a waste of energy we could be using on job hunting, survival, etc. Sad how we are sometimes our own worst enemies.

Sorry to meander - I wish all of us a reasonable survival through these very turbulent times and hope that in a year or two we'll be able to look back with less fear.

Mindy

[roster]

Bowser and DS,

You guys loose your ability to read a post objectively at times?

Here is part of what I said that you ignored:

...................................
Now there are geographic pockets and skill niches where even the first level performers are hurting. ...........

I feel for all the good people out of work now ...........

............ This is a tough introduction to capitalism and if his bubble pops it will get tougher. .............
Best of luck to anyone who is struggling. ...........

My point is more about us watching TV and TV (private enterprise!) will only highlight stories about disasters and crises. You watch enough of that and everything looks much bleaker than it is and you can lose hope. I remember a young associate telling me during that 73/74 recession, "If we lose our jobs now, we may never find another one." Look at the job growth and level of wealth increase since then and his statement seems ludicrous.

.............. not in top 2% regarding low job turnover, low absentee rate, good references, good reputation, good education does not mean they are lazy or unworthy). .........

DS, That is a total misreading of what my buddy said. His statement was reported as:

..........
The unemployment rate of first level performers (low job turnover, low absentee rate, good references, good reputation, good education) is maybe as low as 2%. ................

He is not saying that 2% of the workforce is first level performers. He is saying that the unemployment level of first level performers might be as low as 2% currently. That is quite a difference from your misinterpretation. First level performers make up about 80% of the U.S. workforce.

Personally, I wish everyone who will show up at work on time every day and give an honest effort will have full employment. Some people just aren't capable of much even when they try hard but still, I would like for them to have a steady job and earnings.

[JeffH]

Big business used to be American business. It is now Global business and could care less about American workers. They will do anything to cut cost i.e. try to avoid paying American taxes and pay American workers.

What's really sad about this is these are the guys that mainly the republicans have been working for the last 30 years.


JeffH

[Wulfman]

Big business used to be American business. It is now Global business and could care less about American workers. They will do anything to cut cost i.e. try to avoid paying American taxes and pay American workers.

What's really sad about this is these are the guys that mainly the republicans have been working for the last 30 years.


JeffH

I respectfully (or otherwise ) disagree......it goes back farther than that. I got to thinking about this whole scenario quite a few years ago and it occurred to me that this has been going on since the end of WW II.....under the Marshall Plan. In an effort to rebuild the economies of those countries during the post war era, a great deal of manufacturing and assembly work went overseas (Europe and Japan) where the labor costs were much lower. The U.S. experienced a pretty serious recession around that time, too. (Um....that would have been under the Truman administration)
From that point, it only got progressively worse. Companies kept chasing the lowest labor costs around the world (with the help of legislation from their bought-and-paid-for politicians). They've been selling the idea (to us) that if we bring up these other countries, they'd be able to buy more goods and services from US.

I'm afraid it's all been an illusion. The whole world economy has been predicated on production and consumption.....borrowing and spending......and NOT saving or living within out means. That applies to personal, state and federal levels. This country has gone from the biggest creditor nation to the biggest debtor nation.
Now, they're going to try to do more of the same things that got us into this mess in the first place.

We're in DEEP "DO-DO". (and it's going to last for a LONG, LONG time.)

When you find yourself in a hole......stop digging.

Den